Pocketwatches

[LoveMyHats2]

Ok, I went to the bank today and got the watch. I took some pics and am sorry about the pic quality. But it was the best I could do.

Incidentally, I opened it up, and found out the watch works perfectly still! I wound it a few turns and it keeps good time!

Now...the family story goes that my G-grandfather was a Presbyterian minister aboard the steamship Lucy Walker when that boat blew up in 1844. The owner of that boat was a wealthy Cherokee indian slave owner who was racing his boat on the river with another steamboat. The boiler blew up and killed most everyone aboard. (They found Joe Vann's arm up in a tree I think).

My G-grandfather survived the blast but it blew his thumb off. You can see a deep scratch on the surface of the front lid where he was trying to hold onto the watch at the time of the accident.

Info about Joe Vann: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joseph_Vann

Info about the Lucy Walker: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lucy_Walker_steamboat_disaster

My watch needs a new crystal. I guess that's all it needs though as it seems to keep time perfectly and works fine!

That is a very nice PW, I would have it serviced, even if it has been sitting around.

I have no pocket watches at the moment, but have owned a few older watches and have some older wristwatches. Keeping a watch serviced is very important.

 

[Shangas]

LMH is right. If you're gonna run a watch (especially one that beautiful), it must be serviced first. Otherwise you won't have a watch. You'll have a paperweight.

 

[Henry Gondorff]

Ok then, I want to participate in this thread by posting pictures of the one and only pocketwatch I own. It's a Para Pocketwatch antichoc from 1969. Para stands for Paul Raff, a famous German watch manufacturer which went insolvent in 1987. Para watches won many awards, especially during the world exhibitions in 1937 and 1956. I'm terribly sorry for the lousy pictures, I am a horrible photographer!

 

[Shangas]

That chain is quite something! I like it.

 

[Henry Gondorff]

Thank you, Shangas. Yep, the watch is beautiful itself, but the chain is the icing on the cake.

 

[Dennis Young]

Stories do get distorted over time. This is a Waltham model 1899, 16 size movement in a hunter style case. A hunter case has the cover over the dial and winds at 3 o'clock. 1899 refers to the year this model was designed. I read the serial number on the movement as 17,027,939. Is that correct? If so, this watch dates about 1909.

Still it is one of the most beautiful movements Waltham ever made.

Don
National Association of Watch and Clock Collectors
www.nawcc.org

Yeah...I looked the serial # up too and it would appear that the watch was made much later than the wreck of the Lucy Walker. But why would that story have been handed down I wonder? Is it possible the guts of the watch are different now than the original? I know my dad (now deceased) had it worked on back in the 60s.

Or perhaps we've been handed down a fake? I dunno. Somehow the watch was supposedly in the possesion of another man back then and the contingent of Ministers swore an affidavit attesting to the watch's true owner (my G-grandfather). So I dunno.

 

[Dennis Young]

Now that is a watch! Wowzer. You should service that baby up and wear it.

But yes, it is most definitely a conversion piece. You can tell. The crown doesn't fit exactly onto the stem, because when this watch was made, it didn't HAVE a crown. And you can see the keyhole in the caseback where the winding-key went. The setting arbor (which this watch doesn't appear to have) is always dead center. The winding-arbor is always off-center, near the watch-stem.

I think it's a pity that this is being locked away in a bank-vault. It's not going to appreciate in value in there, you know.

Thanx!

I didnt know the watch was originally different than today. I wonder what the watch originally looked like back then?

I hate keeping it in a bank vault too, but it is possibly the most precious heirloom I have and connects me with a Grandfather AND g-grandfather I never knew. And I'm terrified that I'm going to damage it or it would get stolen if I didnt keep it there. I do take it out about once a year though.

Now that I think about it, I'll bet what has happened is that when the watch was converted, they used the internal guts from a different watch! Because the winding thingy where the original key would have gone...is missing!

Wish i could ask my dad, but he's gone.

 

[Shangas]

Why don't you buy a home safe? That could work. No point in having an heirloom if you can't appreciate it but once a year. My gran's got a diamond, white gold and jade ring. Sure it's not much, but it was the one she always wore. I keep it in my jewellery box next to my cufflinks and whatnot. I'll never wear it (obviously), but it's nice to take it out every now and then and look at it.

 

[Don Dahlberg]

Dennis,

The case of the Waltham is very appropriate for an early 1900 movement. Cases from the mid 19th century were usually silver and a different style. This case is either gold filled (most likely) or solid gold, which was not very popular until after about 1880s. It is as 16 size watch movement and case. 16 size watches were rare until about 1890s. Before then, most watches for men were 18 size. Almost all keywind movements were 18 size. There are no holes in the case for a key wind watch. There are no other case screw marks on the case (the screws that hold the movement in the case). This says no other watch lived in this case, which rules out case swapping. Everything about this watch is early 1900s.

About keeping the watch in a safe or at the bank. If the watch is in a gold filled case, the watch is worth about $150. I see hairline cracks in the dial, which lowers the value. If there is wear spots showing brass, that is even less. Of course, if it is solid gold, that is another matter with the price of gold being what it is. You have to add the meltdown value of the gold. I cannot read the inside of the inner back cover. If the case says anything such as warrented or guranteed for some number of years, it is gold filled. If it is gold it should say something like 14K. Gold filled cases feel very solid, because there is brass underneath. Solid gold cases feel very cheap. When you tap a solid gold case, it sounds like tin. This is because the gold is soft and often thinner. Gold cases are usually dented, because they are so soft. I am betting this is a gold filled case from the photographs, but I cannot be sure without seeing what is written on the case lids.

I am sorry this does not fit into the family history. This happens a great deal. I once had a lady come into the NAWCC Museum and Library with a watch that was given to her ancestor by Abraham Lincoln. It was an early Elgin. The Elgin watch company was not formed (under the name National Watch Company) until 1857, after President Lincoln was dead. Playing Antique Roadshow is not always fun.

Don Dahlberg

 

[jamespowers]

Dennis,

The case of the Waltham is very appropriate for an early 1900 movement. Cases from the mid 19th century were usually silver and a different style. This case is either gold filled (most likely) or solid gold, which was not very popular until after about 1880s. It is as 16 size watch movement and case. 16 size watches were rare until about 1890s. Before then, most watches for men were 18 size. Almost all keywind movements were 18 size. There are no holes in the case for a key wind watch. There are no other case screw marks on the case (the screws that hold the movement in the case). This says no other watch lived in this case, which rules out case swapping. Everything about this watch is early 1900s.

About keeping the watch in a safe or at the bank. If the watch is in a gold filled case, the watch is worth about $150. I see hairline cracks in the dial, which lowers the value. If there is wear spots showing brass, that is even less. Of course, if it is solid gold, that is another matter with the price of gold being what it is. You have to add the meltdown value of the gold. I cannot read the inside of the inner back cover. If the case says anything such as warrented or guranteed for some number of years, it is gold filled. If it is gold it should say something like 14K. Gold filled cases feel very solid, because there is brass underneath. Solid gold cases feel very cheap. When you tap a solid gold case, it sounds like tin. This is because the gold is soft and often thinner. Gold cases are usually dented, because they are so soft. I am betting this is a gold filled case from the photographs, but I cannot be sure without seeing what is written on the case lids.

I am sorry this does not fit into the family history. This happens a great deal. I once had a lady come into the NAWCC Museum and Library with a watch that was given to her ancestor by Abraham Lincoln. It was an early Elgin. The Elgin watch company was not formed (under the name National Watch Company) until 1857, after President Lincoln was dead. Playing Antique Roadshow is not always fun.

Don Dahlberg

Uh, President Lincoln was assasinated in 1865. Maybe she was right.

 

[Don Dahlberg]

Whoops, my typo. Elgin was formed in 1867. Sorry about that.

Don

 

[jamespowers]

Whoops, my typo. Elgin was formed in 1867. Sorry about that.

Don

I was wondering about that too.

 

[V.C. Brunswick]

Yeah...I looked the serial # up too and it would appear that the watch was made much later than the wreck of the Lucy Walker. But why would that story have been handed down I wonder? Is it possible the guts of the watch are different now than the original? I know my dad (now deceased) had it worked on back in the 60s.

Or perhaps we've been handed down a fake? I dunno. Somehow the watch was supposedly in the possesion of another man back then and the contingent of Ministers swore an affidavit attesting to the watch's true owner (my G-grandfather). So I dunno.

Stories do get distorted over time. This is a Waltham model 1899, 16 size movement in a hunter style case. A hunter case has the cover over the dial and winds at 3 o'clock. 1899 refers to the year this model was designed. I read the serial number on the movement as 17,027,939. Is that correct? If so, this watch dates about 1909.

My guess is that the Waltham perhaps belonged to your grandfather rather than your great-grandfather. Or depending on how long he lived it could have belonged to your great-grandfather in his later years which is a possibility if he was just a young man in 1844.

 

[Don Dahlberg]

FWI, For those who are interested in Elgin pocket watches, there is a great site at http://www.midwestcs.com/elgin/ The site has great history and other information including a serial number database. Be sure to use the serial number from the movement, not the case.

Although not as nice, there is a useful site on Waltham watches at http://www.nawcc-info.org/ It also has a serial number database.

There is a watch forum like Fedora Lounge dedicated to watches and clock at http://www.nawcc.org. Just click on "message board" and choose the appropriate board like "American Pocket Watches". Of course, if you want to ask a questions on the board, you have to register.

Don

 

[Shangas]

In all this, I totally forgot the rationale of the dates. Nobody would have a Waltham dated 1844. The company didn't exist until 1850. And even then, it was called Appleton, Tracy & Co.

 

[Nigel]

I finally got my Grandfathers pocket watch working again. It is a Waltham with a movement dating from 1928/29 according to the serial number. It cost me £50 to get it serviced and a couple of parts replaced, well worth it. I now need to find a nice fob for it, originally it had a short leather strap with a rose gold T-bar on one end and a swivel on the other unfortunately this had disappeared when I inherited it.

 

[Shangas]

The leather strap would've gone into the lapel buttonhole of your favourite sportscoat. Nice features, those leather straps were.

A handsome, gold-filled pocketwatch chain (Single or Double Albert) can be picked up for not very much money. They look just as good as solid gold ones, at a fraction of the price.

Nigel, that is a beautiful pocketwatch and a fine heirloom. Can we see some photos of the interior?

 

[Nigel]

Can we see some photos of the interior?

I'll try and get some for you sometime soon.

 

[Feraud]

I finally got my Grandfathers pocket watch working again. It is a Waltham with a movement dating from 1928/29 according to the serial number. It cost me £50 to get it serviced and a couple of parts replaced, well worth it. I now need to find a nice fob for it, originally it had a short leather strap with a rose gold T-bar on one end and a swivel on the other unfortunately this had disappeared when I inherited it.

Lovely watch. You can purchase a similar fob here.

 

[Dennis Young]

I am sorry this does not fit into the family history. This happens a great deal. I once had a lady come into the NAWCC Museum and Library with a watch that was given to her ancestor by Abraham Lincoln. It was an early Elgin. The Elgin watch company was not formed (under the name National Watch Company) until 1857, after President Lincoln was dead. Playing Antique Roadshow is not always fun.

Don Dahlberg

Yeah, these dates arent matching up with the family story. I know that my g-grandfather was aboard the Lucy Walker when it blew up. But this probably isnt the watch that was involved. It appears that this watch was one my Grandfather had. He was a county representative to the state capital and was born in 1862.

I've returned the watch to the safe deposit box and it is locked safely away. I suspect (based on what yall have told me) that is probably is gold-filled as it does feel solid and would put a knot on someone's head if they were hit with it. Lol!