Actually, just saw those Freddie's, they I get. Maybe I'm in after all. Perhaps I should get a pair. Do they fit true to size?
Yes, it f***ing does! Unfortunately, I can't arrange for a small biplane tugging a banner across the sky, but believe me - after a few months regular washing, 23oz jeans are JUST like regular jeans.
I'm confused, SELVAGE/SELVEDGE is just the finished edge of the fabric, and can have no effect on the broad area thereof....discussions of fabric weight, thread count etc are one thing, but what does the edge of the roll have to do with quality?
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If you subscribe to the bizarre "don't wash 'em" mantra (surely only supported by blokes without a wife/girlfriend - or friends), then yes, they look cool - and stink ( I was at a gig the other night, trying to see the band from behind a fat bloke - the smell from his unwashed jeans sort of crept up on me, but once I got it, it was evil. But I bet he couldn't smell it..:eeek:.).
Where does the extra 10 Oz of weight go if the 23 Oz jeans are "exactly the same" as 14 Oz? Into the aether? Somewhere over the Persil? The extra weight was all "body" and not extra cotton per square metre?
This is getting into the realm of absurdity … I hate to say it but - AGAIN. Has Daz developed some wondrous cotton eating properties that only affect heavier weight selvedge denim? Or is that extra weight really only filler/"body"? (whatever on earth that might be!) I don't dispute that after washing (or wear) a fabric will become softer, but surely this is true for every fabric? Around the waist especially jeans tend to become more comfortable with wear. Are we to believe that heavier weight twill cottons are differentially affected by washing, specifically in terms of fabric weight?
They may look and feel the same (superficially), and develop patina and fade in the same manner, but the 23 Oz fabric MUST still be heavier, or it's not actually 23 Oz fabric, but 14 Oz fabric bulked up with some sort of stiffener/additive that is rapidly washed out of the fabric. It's not rocket science! 23 oz fabric weighs 23 Oz to the square metre/yard (depending on the country … essentially the same anyways). 14 oz fabric ditto: less than 2/3 the weight. it's simply not possible that these are exactly the same after a few washes, unless the two are really the same before the washes. Cotton doesn't simply disappear in the washing machine.
bk
Where does the extra 10 Oz of weight go if the 23 Oz jeans are "exactly the same" as 14 Oz? Into the aether? Somewhere over the Persil? The extra weight was all "body" and not extra cotton per square metre?
This is getting into the realm of absurdity … I hate to say it but - AGAIN. Has Daz developed some wondrous cotton eating properties that only affect heavier weight selvedge denim? Or is that extra weight really only filler/"body"? (whatever on earth that might be!) I don't dispute that after washing (or wear) a fabric will become softer, but surely this is true for every fabric? Around the waist especially jeans tend to become more comfortable with wear. Are we to believe that heavier weight twill cottons are differentially affected by washing, specifically in terms of fabric weight?
They may look and feel the same (superficially), and develop patina and fade in the same manner, but the 23 Oz fabric MUST still be heavier, or it's not actually 23 Oz fabric, but 14 Oz fabric bulked up with some sort of stiffener/additive that is rapidly washed out of the fabric. It's not rocket science! 23 oz fabric weighs 23 Oz to the square metre/yard (depending on the country … essentially the same anyways). 14 oz fabric ditto: less than 2/3 the weight. it's simply not possible that these are exactly the same after a few washes, unless the two are really the same before the washes. Cotton doesn't simply disappear in the washing machine.
bk
I'm confused, SELVAGE/SELVEDGE is just the finished edge of the fabric, and can have no effect on the broad area thereof....discussions of fabric weight, thread count etc are one thing, but what does the edge of the roll have to do with quality?
Well, you can say the same thing for most of wat we buy and discuss here. Up to you whether you want to play. The thread may be dopey, but expensive gear is up to the buyer to decide on it's worth.Finally, the good Dr says what I've been thinking all along.I just didn't want to say it for fear of getting my head bit off!At best, selvedge keeps the ends of the fabric from fraying.But who cares any way, the edges never show.The real conversation is heavy wt vs light fabric wt denim.This whole thread is extremely ridiculous.If you people want to spend upwards of $300 or more on a simple pair of jeans, knock your socks off.If you believe that more expensive denim means better quality and helps you sleep at night, so be it.I'm happy for you.As for me, I have much better things to spend my hard earned money on.Lenny
Well, you can say the same thing for most of wat we buy and discuss here. Up to you whether you want to play. The thread may be dopey, but expensive gear is up to the buyer to decide on it's worth.
I don't smoke, but literally if somebody sparks up a joint within a 500 metre radius I will know it, 50 metres and I can give you a precise breakdown of exactly what it is they're smoking.
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This whole thread is extremely ridiculous.
If you people want to spend upwards of $300 or more on a simple pair of jeans, knock your socks off.
If you believe that more expensive denim means better quality and helps you sleep at night, so be it.
I'm happy for you.
As for me, I have much better things to spend my hard earned money on.
Lenny