- Messages
- 19,001
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- Central California
I’m in! I’m interested in most any block profile in 7 7/8, 7 3/4 and 7 5/8 and flanges for the same with brim widths of 2 5/8” and up. I think you’ll have a lot of interest from the folks here.
Brent
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Photos of hatters tools
- Thread starter airforceindy
- Start date
I’m in! I’m interested in most any block profile in 7 7/8, 7 3/4 and 7 5/8 and flanges for the same with brim widths of 2 5/8” and up. I think you’ll have a lot of interest from the folks here.
Brent
- Messages
- 10,840
- Location
- vancouver, canada
I'm a buyer!
- Messages
- 10,840
- Location
- vancouver, canada
I'm a buyer!
- Messages
- 19,414
- Location
- Funkytown, USA
Got any 122s or 123s in 7 1/4 or 6 7/8?
Zephyr Union
New in Town
- Messages
- 36
These are the only crowns I’m getting rid of , $48 a piece.
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- Messages
- 10,840
- Location
- vancouver, canada
I cannot make out the sizes of the ones above 6 3/4". I assume these are regular ovals? I don't mind the short crowns as I can make extentions. I am looking to add anything in size 7 and up in a reg oval.
- Messages
- 10,840
- Location
- vancouver, canada
Just worked out how to enlarge the pics. I have these sizes already....like everyone am looking for the larger sizes. Oh well, looks like ordering new. Do you have a preferred NAmerican supplier for wooden blocks? I have been ordering from Europe but the delivery is lengthy.
- Messages
- 19,001
- Location
- Central California
Zephyr Union
New in Town
- Messages
- 36
& who in their right mind would let that block go..... lolWhat! No size 7 7/8 #52 long oval! I’m shocked, shocked I say!
Jaxjax
New in Town
- Messages
- 15
I am also interested in making one.. Would love some insight
Jaxjax
New in Town
- Messages
- 15
I am in need of a 56, 61,62, 63 and a 65 cm open crown blocks if anyone knows of any for sale
- Messages
- 10,840
- Location
- vancouver, canada
There is a new guy on Etsy selling 3D printed polymer blocks at a great price. I inquired and he was out of raw material til mid April. I have not checked back with him but will do at some point. I need to fill in a few holes in my block selection and thought I would give him a shot as his pricing was very good and delivery quick. Can't recall his handle but it is not RA Blocks. Art from VS is selling blocks and flanges from his collection on Ebay...the Ebay store is: especially4marsha or something like that but just search for wooden blocks and his listings will come up. Mostly small sizes so you will likely only fill the 56cm need. I buy my blocks from HatblocksPoland on Etsy. Jerzy has decent pricing and does brilliant work.
ChicagoWayVito
Practically Family
- Messages
- 699
So after reading your post, I had to go to Etsy and take a look. Is it the seller TheBeardedMadHatter? If so, I don't think I would buy a block from that seller. My reason is that the print quality is no where near what Randal Alan getting. I don't own any Randal Alan blocks so not biased here but based on the two I would pay the extra money and get Randal Alan blocks if going 3D printed. However, I just bought my own 3D printer so I can try printing my own blocks. I have a similar printer to that of Randal Alan based on his instagram. Anyway, I am finding that it takes some work to get good prints and quality prints. There is no guarantee when you start a print job that something environmental won't make it go off the rails. I am just trying to get a "simple" band block to print right now before I move up to a full open crown block.
ChicagoWayVito
Practically Family
- Messages
- 699
Based on the response from Art and his reference to me, I assume we are talking about the brim plating machine correct?
What would you like to know? It is expensive to buy one ($5K+), cheaper if you are mechanically inclined and have some welding skills. Even in building one yourself, you would need a set of inserts for each hat size and duplicate that for each oval type (regular, long oval, wide oval).
The brim plating machine that I have is at its essence a heated press that irons the brim. It uses a pneumatic cylinder to raise one-half of the pressing surface to allow the hat body to be inserted after having gone through the blocking process.
The trickiest part is figuring out how to heat the rig up and measure the temperature.
- Messages
- 10,840
- Location
- vancouver, canada
I don't think that was him as he was a guy doing custom 3D printing and had added blocks to his offering. But I can't find him nor the thread of our conversation. He was supposed to contact me when he had more material but has not as of yet. I purchased from RA and sent them back for a refund. The quality looked OK but he totally messed up the dimensions sending me Ovals with flat tops instead of LOvals with a dome even after I had sent him the footprint with the desired dimensions and pics of the profile. Oh, well I guess I will just keep buying from Jerzy.
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jlee562
I'll Lock Up
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I admire your willingness to jump in head first. If you get it worked out and feel like selling any blocks, I'd be interested!
I have a #52 block on order from Randal. I'm quite happy with the build quality of his stuff, though his #51 profile doesn't match up to my vintage Stetson.
ChicagoWayVito
Practically Family
- Messages
- 699
Thanks, Jared! If I can get close to the smoothness that Randal Alan appears to have on his blocks I will definitely let you know. I suspect that Randal is doing some post-printing finishing work.
I am finding it easiest to design the band block for printing but getting the profile on a full block is much harder and requires some tricks in software that I am just learning how to do so I can get the profile from front and side views to be correct.
I have a full set of wooden #51 that I purchased from JW years back, I would be curious how close his reproductions match up with a vintage Stetson.
Thought I'd show you some in depth photos of a conformateur. We've all heard of one and seen the auctions at which the asking prices are sometimes stratospheric. Recently bought one at a reasonable price from France, where they were made. Getting to look at one in detail, you really have to marvel at the craftsmanship that went into these. This will require several postings.
Here are the pics of the auction first. Paid €450 for it as that was the opening bid and I was the only bidder. Shipping cost me €28.
General impression: needs work, top panel split, dirty and rusty, spring missing.
At least three of the "fingers" broken and of one part is missing.
Central plate dirty and rusty.
Again: top panel split on the insiude as well. Cork in poor condition.
Generally a very neglected instrument, but nothing major it seemed.
Underside/inside. Appears complete, but likely the central resting plate was covered with leather or fabric in the past.
Another look at the broken "fingers".
The spring holders seemed to be in order.
The four struts looked to be in order, as was the lever for the actual conforming.
The split top panel in a closer view.
My thinking was "where will I find another at this price?" as the auction had ended before with the item not selling. I had missed out several times before with these going at much higher prices and sometimes in even poorer condition.
So I put in a bid and I was the only one. The less than stellar pictures and the seller not listing international shipping (had to contact the seller about that) was likely the reason for the lack of interest. Fine by me.
More in part II.
Here are the pics of the auction first. Paid €450 for it as that was the opening bid and I was the only bidder. Shipping cost me €28.
General impression: needs work, top panel split, dirty and rusty, spring missing.
At least three of the "fingers" broken and of one part is missing.
Central plate dirty and rusty.
Again: top panel split on the insiude as well. Cork in poor condition.
Generally a very neglected instrument, but nothing major it seemed.
Underside/inside. Appears complete, but likely the central resting plate was covered with leather or fabric in the past.
Another look at the broken "fingers".
The spring holders seemed to be in order.
The four struts looked to be in order, as was the lever for the actual conforming.
The split top panel in a closer view.
My thinking was "where will I find another at this price?" as the auction had ended before with the item not selling. I had missed out several times before with these going at much higher prices and sometimes in even poorer condition.
So I put in a bid and I was the only one. The less than stellar pictures and the seller not listing international shipping (had to contact the seller about that) was likely the reason for the lack of interest. Fine by me.
More in part II.
Part II
Where to begin?
This is the way it looks now.
General impression: much better, rust and dirt removed for the most part. Oiled and repaired, spring added.
Top panel is still split, but it doesn't impede on the functionality. When I received it, I quickly decided not to take it apart completely (I know my limitations and it didn't seem to need it). I also decided not to send it off to some instrument maker, firstly because I don't know any and secondly because it would likely lead to considerable extra costs.
I left the cork alone (for now at least). It's still functional and it's pretty stuck on that top panel. It would likely take a chisel to get it off and the risk of damaging the top panel is not trivial. The two levers (here at the top) were seized, but some oil and a little manupulation got them in perfect working order again. The flat ring around the cork comes away with the little lever in the middle. You stick the paper in there and click it back in place. The paper registers the head shape as the pins pierce it.
The central plate and the outer ring were cleaned and the rust removed. This one has a metal outer ring, but there are conformateurs out there where they are made of wood as well. Had some trouble finding the right materials to get some sort of shine back on these. Got some good results with WD40 and some 1000 and 1500 grit sandpaper. After that tried Brasso. You can't go in heavy handed, because it is quite a delicate instrument.
The pins still need some work, but you can at least now see that they are made of brass or copper. Getting them clean is very fiddly; you can't really reach it with your sandpaper and I thought a Dremel would be a bit risky.
Here's a detail of the pin and the way it's attached to the "finger". As you can see it's machined to a thread at the end and capped with a bolt and a washer on the outside of the finger. The pin goes underneath the outer plate and touches the central plate, where it ends with the upward pointed pin.
Here you can see the detail of the way the pin is attached on the outside of the finger: with a bolt and washer. I've seen conformateurs where these are fantastically shiny, but again I didn't want to risk damage by going in with force. As you can seen the fingers aren't completely round, but are flattened on the sides.
I repaired the broken fingers. Five in total were broken. On this picture you can see three of them (compare this to the auction pics). Two others were broken at the bottom, at the joint with the pring connectors. Those two and the two on the right here just needed some woodglue and fitted fine. Couldn't clamp these though. The fingers seem to have been made out of some sort of hardwood, mahogany or maybe even ebony. Good luck finding an ebony dowel somewhere. I had to find some sort of solution for the missing part of the last finger. In the end I cut off a piece of a wooden spoon I had lying about and sanded that as close to the shape of the finger as I could get it. Not perfect, but pretty close and I must say I was quite pleased with myself about this one. Coloured it with some markers and some shoepolish.
The struts just needed cleaning and polishing, but like everything on this instrument, it's very difficult to reach all the nooks and crannies. And you really do need to be carefull not to force it. The bottom wooden ring that guides the spring connectors can be seen here with the screws and washers. To be honest: I haven't figured out what the function of these little screws and washers is. The washers are made of mother of pearl by the way.
Where to begin?
This is the way it looks now.
General impression: much better, rust and dirt removed for the most part. Oiled and repaired, spring added.
Top panel is still split, but it doesn't impede on the functionality. When I received it, I quickly decided not to take it apart completely (I know my limitations and it didn't seem to need it). I also decided not to send it off to some instrument maker, firstly because I don't know any and secondly because it would likely lead to considerable extra costs.
I left the cork alone (for now at least). It's still functional and it's pretty stuck on that top panel. It would likely take a chisel to get it off and the risk of damaging the top panel is not trivial. The two levers (here at the top) were seized, but some oil and a little manupulation got them in perfect working order again. The flat ring around the cork comes away with the little lever in the middle. You stick the paper in there and click it back in place. The paper registers the head shape as the pins pierce it.
The central plate and the outer ring were cleaned and the rust removed. This one has a metal outer ring, but there are conformateurs out there where they are made of wood as well. Had some trouble finding the right materials to get some sort of shine back on these. Got some good results with WD40 and some 1000 and 1500 grit sandpaper. After that tried Brasso. You can't go in heavy handed, because it is quite a delicate instrument.
The pins still need some work, but you can at least now see that they are made of brass or copper. Getting them clean is very fiddly; you can't really reach it with your sandpaper and I thought a Dremel would be a bit risky.
Here's a detail of the pin and the way it's attached to the "finger". As you can see it's machined to a thread at the end and capped with a bolt and a washer on the outside of the finger. The pin goes underneath the outer plate and touches the central plate, where it ends with the upward pointed pin.
Here you can see the detail of the way the pin is attached on the outside of the finger: with a bolt and washer. I've seen conformateurs where these are fantastically shiny, but again I didn't want to risk damage by going in with force. As you can seen the fingers aren't completely round, but are flattened on the sides.
I repaired the broken fingers. Five in total were broken. On this picture you can see three of them (compare this to the auction pics). Two others were broken at the bottom, at the joint with the pring connectors. Those two and the two on the right here just needed some woodglue and fitted fine. Couldn't clamp these though. The fingers seem to have been made out of some sort of hardwood, mahogany or maybe even ebony. Good luck finding an ebony dowel somewhere. I had to find some sort of solution for the missing part of the last finger. In the end I cut off a piece of a wooden spoon I had lying about and sanded that as close to the shape of the finger as I could get it. Not perfect, but pretty close and I must say I was quite pleased with myself about this one. Coloured it with some markers and some shoepolish.
The struts just needed cleaning and polishing, but like everything on this instrument, it's very difficult to reach all the nooks and crannies. And you really do need to be carefull not to force it. The bottom wooden ring that guides the spring connectors can be seen here with the screws and washers. To be honest: I haven't figured out what the function of these little screws and washers is. The washers are made of mother of pearl by the way.
Part III
Another cloe-up of the screws and washers. There aren't enough of them for all the fingers and the construction could have been done without them. And why the washers? Don't know.
You can also see the different material in the center of the connectors to the perimeter spring to the fingers. I have seen that in some of the conformateurs these are made of metal (likely brass). On this one they are made of wood, because two of them were broken. Must have been a boatload of work putting this thing together.
From another angle. On the left the connectors for the perimeter spring can be seen. They cannot go out, even if the finger is broken off, the connector can't get out of its housing. On some conformateurs these are covered on the topside with mother of pearl as well. Not on this one.
The top and bottom holding the perimeter spring is quite thin and fragile. If you'd bump the machine into sometime these would likely break.
Here's the pic of the top plate outer cork ring coming away so the paper can be put in.
Here's the underside or inside of the conformateur. The central plate here rests on a flattened circle or oval of spring steel. This central plat would rest on your head when using the conformateur. This is a piece of plywood, but it was likely covered with some leather patch in the past. Not completely sure about the material being leather, but I have seen pictures of these machines where the name of the hatter was printed this plate.
The underside of the "fingers". Here you can see they taper outward to make it easier for your head to slip into the conformateur. The connector piece can be seen here as well.
The feet underneath the outer ring, of which there are four, prevent the conformateur from sitting on the bottoms of the fingers and possibly damaging them.
Here the outside with the perimeter spring in place. This was missing and it was not easy replacing it. Marc DeCou does offer a replacement spring on his website (he does offer new conformateurs as well - the price reflects the amount of work that goes into one), but with shipping costs and customs fees this would be just too expensive for my taste. This type of spring is actually called a garter spring and these do come in various sizes. Having one made to fit exactly to this instrument is (again) pricey and even the off the shelf ones aren't cheap. In the end I combined two off the shelf garter springs, that can be cut to size, and made one perimeter spring. Costs were €60 for the two.
From another angle. You can see the spring is slightly narrow for the connectors, but a wider one would probably require more force and this one isn't exactly loose already (without it being any more uncomfortable than it needs to be).
On the bottom of this pic two of the struts can be seen. This one has four, but there are models with five. What probably is a later (and improved) model had the size of the wearer determined at the same time as his (or her) headshape (see pic below this one).
It was good fun cleaning and reparing this one. I finished the work using linseed oil on all the wooden parts and that really did a load of good. You could go on with this for ages and getting it to almost brand new and I do intend to clean it up further if I can figure out which tool I can use to get into all the tight spaces and not damage the instrument.
I already had a formillion and bottom plate (or saddle as it's known).
As a matter of interest and before we forget: Allie Ainé came from a hatters family. I recently came across this Ainé hat on a French site. From Maison Nicolaï Aïné.
Hope you found that somewhat interesting.
Another cloe-up of the screws and washers. There aren't enough of them for all the fingers and the construction could have been done without them. And why the washers? Don't know.
You can also see the different material in the center of the connectors to the perimeter spring to the fingers. I have seen that in some of the conformateurs these are made of metal (likely brass). On this one they are made of wood, because two of them were broken. Must have been a boatload of work putting this thing together.
From another angle. On the left the connectors for the perimeter spring can be seen. They cannot go out, even if the finger is broken off, the connector can't get out of its housing. On some conformateurs these are covered on the topside with mother of pearl as well. Not on this one.
The top and bottom holding the perimeter spring is quite thin and fragile. If you'd bump the machine into sometime these would likely break.
Here's the pic of the top plate outer cork ring coming away so the paper can be put in.
Here's the underside or inside of the conformateur. The central plate here rests on a flattened circle or oval of spring steel. This central plat would rest on your head when using the conformateur. This is a piece of plywood, but it was likely covered with some leather patch in the past. Not completely sure about the material being leather, but I have seen pictures of these machines where the name of the hatter was printed this plate.
The underside of the "fingers". Here you can see they taper outward to make it easier for your head to slip into the conformateur. The connector piece can be seen here as well.
The feet underneath the outer ring, of which there are four, prevent the conformateur from sitting on the bottoms of the fingers and possibly damaging them.
Here the outside with the perimeter spring in place. This was missing and it was not easy replacing it. Marc DeCou does offer a replacement spring on his website (he does offer new conformateurs as well - the price reflects the amount of work that goes into one), but with shipping costs and customs fees this would be just too expensive for my taste. This type of spring is actually called a garter spring and these do come in various sizes. Having one made to fit exactly to this instrument is (again) pricey and even the off the shelf ones aren't cheap. In the end I combined two off the shelf garter springs, that can be cut to size, and made one perimeter spring. Costs were €60 for the two.
From another angle. You can see the spring is slightly narrow for the connectors, but a wider one would probably require more force and this one isn't exactly loose already (without it being any more uncomfortable than it needs to be).
On the bottom of this pic two of the struts can be seen. This one has four, but there are models with five. What probably is a later (and improved) model had the size of the wearer determined at the same time as his (or her) headshape (see pic below this one).
It was good fun cleaning and reparing this one. I finished the work using linseed oil on all the wooden parts and that really did a load of good. You could go on with this for ages and getting it to almost brand new and I do intend to clean it up further if I can figure out which tool I can use to get into all the tight spaces and not damage the instrument.
I already had a formillion and bottom plate (or saddle as it's known).
As a matter of interest and before we forget: Allie Ainé came from a hatters family. I recently came across this Ainé hat on a French site. From Maison Nicolaï Aïné.
Hope you found that somewhat interesting.
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