"Perfecto" Style Jacket

[ColdCut]

Hey guys,

Was looking to get my first leather jacket, and the asymmetrical double rider MC design really caught my eye.
I know that Schott is the originator of the design (or brought it to popularity at least), but my admitted abuse of the search function has taught me that there are many other fantastic brands like Aero, Vanson, LW, etc to consider.

I definitely want a horsehide leather, but was wondering about the differences in Schott vs Aero MC jackets. From what I've read, Aero uses a higher quality (though this is contested by some) from Horween, and Schott's horsehides are sourced from Italy. For those of you who prefer the Aero brand, what makes Aero's waiting times/price (nearly 2 months/$1060 including shipping where I live) "worth it" over Schott's jackets? Obviously, there are examples of jackets from both brands lasting 50+ years, and by that metric, it would be hard to say that one brand is superior to the other. Is it the quality of the leather? Craftmanship?

Eager to learn from the veteran members of this great resource. Thank you!

 

[Grayland]

What really makes it "worth it" is for your jacket to fit you well. If a nicely made jacket (Schott and the others you list certainly fits that bill) fits you well, you'll look and feel fantastic. On another note, as this is your first leather jacket - go easy and cheaper until you dial in what you like and how you like it to fit. It takes a while, but once you dial in your measurements - it's very easy to get a great fitting jacket.

 

[pawineguy]

Good advice from Grayland. Depending on your measurements, fitting into a standard jacket from Schott or Vanson will allow you not only instant gratification but the ability to return if it doesn't fit perfectly. For example, you could find a couple of Schott Perfectos and order both, returning the one you don't like. It would allow you to get into the hobby, live with the jacket for a while and decide on what you like / dislike about a particular style and what type of fit you are most comfortable in. From there, you can step up into the world of custom jackets and different leathers.

 

[Monitor]

Owned both Aero Motorcycle/Brando jacket and a number of Schott Perfectos so here's my 2c. Do you plan to ride in it?

I definitely want a horsehide leather, but was wondering about the differences in Schott vs Aero MC jackets. From what I've read, Aero uses a higher quality (though this is contested by some) from Horween, and Schott's horsehides are sourced from Italy.

Aero (Horween) FQHH starts out stiffer which gives it an impression of being a heavier hide but both jackets are actually made of equally thick leather. Initially, Schott HH has a vinyl-ish shine to it which will tone down very quickly with wear. FQHH is a somewhat prettier hide, IMO, and it's got a brown base which gives it a beautiful vintage vibe, while Schott HH is dyed all the way through. Entirely subjective, really, as both hides are of equal characteristics. Depends what quality means to you but both Schott HH and Horween FQHH ought to provide you with the same amount of protection and should have an equal lifespan.

For those of you who prefer the Aero brand, what makes Aero's waiting times/price (nearly 2 months/$1060 including shipping where I live) "worth it" over Schott's jackets? Obviously, there are examples of jackets from both brands lasting 50+ years, and by that metric, it would be hard to say that one brand is superior to the other. Is it the quality of the leather? Craftmanship?

Schott 618 is a better riding jacket, there's no debate there. Lots of features, little things that set it apart from the competition. For instance, Schott vertical action gussets is a lot more functional and allows for a considerably more comfort over Aero's shoulder gussets. Other things like the vented football underarm... thing, inside sleeve zip, collar that's actually functional, etc. It's a design Schott really has perfected and it shows!

Aero's edge of course is that they're custom made and since Schott tends to be somewhat short in the sleeves (and baggy in the chest/waist area) - but - if the 618HH fits you, as far as the Perfecto style goes, you cannot possibly do any better!

 

[Arnold]

It's more difficult to get a custom jacket from Schott than from Vanson or Aero. They only make them periodically. You can ask them to put you on a wait list for the next period tho.

As for quality: Schott naked cowhide wears, looks, feels and smells wonderfully, but loses a lot of color in the first heavy rain. It also retains gasoline, cigarette or restaurant smells quickly, intensely, and for months or forever, after repeated exposure. I don't know about Schott horsehide, but since their cowhide is so sensitive compared to e.g. Vanson's, I'm wondering if they have their horsehide styled to be more sensitive than others, too? Just ask them, Gail is quite knowledgeable and honest about this stuff.

@pawineguy, Vanson haven't offered horsehide in several years as far as I know.

Btw, decade old jackets may be not good benchmarks to compare manufacturers today. I always hear that Schott quality was much higher before the mid 80s, more comparable to recent Vanson in terms of riding protection.

 

[Edward]

I've owned both a 618 by Schott and an Aero MC jacket, in the Perfecto style. Both virtually identical in terms of design and features (execeptions being the inside pocket - fabric one inside the Schott, which I wouldn't use because I'm not convinced it's secure; studded, G1 type pocket in the Aero - much preferable; and the lining - heavy drill cotton in the Aero, quilted nylon in the Schott). I would up keeping the Schott out of the two. Actually, I bought the Schott as a repalcement for the Aero. Perversely enough, I consider the Aero to be the far superior of the two (both are steer). The Aero is a bit of a nicer hide, and handling them side by side, Galashiel's finest is just a much classier jacket overall. Which is not to say the Schott is bad, far from it. It's avery nice jacket, just not on the same level, imo, as the Aero. I'm having to sell the Aero simply because of the fit. Aero's MC design is great for me right up until it very suddenly nips in at the waist. Round the shoulfers, a size 42 is about the same size as a Highwayman, but right on the hem where the belt is it's actually significantly smaller than a size 42 Thirties Halfbelt (which is probably closer a size 40 HWM). I'm on the rotund side myself, though even when I lose the excess weight I need to shift I'd say if you're a 36" waist or over, the Aero as standard is too tight. The Schott 618, on the other hand is a much boxier fit. (Slimmer guys who want to belt their jacket in tight at the waist might have issues with it for this reason). I wear a size 46 in the Schott, which is around the same size at the shoulders as a 50s HB (a similar fit overall). FWIW, I had considered saving up to buy a new aero and seeing whether they might make me one with a bit less taper in the body; I may still do that one day. In the end, though, given the number of jackets still on my want list(!), I decided to buy a Schott (got a very good deal on one) and pocket the not inconsiderable difference, as all done and said, the Perfecto is a style that gets less wear in my wardrobe than will a halfbelt (the latter being something I'll wear with office clothes, and to the office - the Perfecto is more 'limited' that way).

Vanson's variations on this theme look really nice too, though I've never had the chance to try one. Certainly wouldn't hesitate to experiement if the right deal came along. If you want to buy something off the rack, it's worth comparing the two. I don't know about the US market, but here in the UK a Schott 618 and the Vanson equivalent are the same price.

 

[HoosierDaddy]

I'll give the nod to Vanson concerning dedicated MC riding jackets. The way some models are constructed seems top of the line for riding comfort, while Aeros and LW remain stiffer and make a long ride discomforting...for me. I've had several Schotts over the years and own one now (a retro '30s style perfecto), but the sleeves are generally short on most Schotts with a tendency to ride up (as I've mentioned before). My favorite is my older Vanson 'Enfield' simply because of great simple easy riding construction with longer sleeves that do stay more in place on the bike rather that hiking up well past the wrists and heavy but relaxed competition steer hide. A riding friend of mine has a Perfecto style Vanson (sorry, don't know the model number off hand) who claims it is the most comfortable riding jacket that he's owned. His is horsehide but is a much more relaxed HH than Aero or LW and the patina has developed beautifully. I highly recommend it. I think that Thurston Bros. still has access to Vanson's Octagon HH. Plus their try-on jackets are very worthwhile.
HD

 

[Arnold]

^ Would be great if I was wrong about Vanson HH. Thanks for the hint.
Most of the Perfecto style Vansons have vertical split backs (excepting the Thunderbird), did your friend say anything about whether his had one and if that added to them being so comfortable? I did wonder there must be some practical reason for those split backs, because it's not about looks, going by most people's taste anyway. Maybe it's just to have greater control about hide quality, maybe something about drape/ mobility/ comfort.

 

[HoosierDaddy]

^ Would be great if I was wrong about Vanson HH. Thanks for the hint.
Most of the Perfecto style Vansons have vertical split backs (excepting the Thunderbird), did your friend say anything about whether his had one and if that added to them being so comfortable? I did wonder there must be some practical reason for those split backs, because it's not about looks, going by most people's taste anyway. Maybe it's just to have greater control about hide quality, maybe something about drape/ mobility/ comfort.

Do you mean a center seam down the back? My friend's Vanson has a solid back with (I think) only a bi-swing and kidney back panel. No belt but does have the belt loops. He said it was HH and the brown finish looks like the Octagon hide to me. The leather is definitely not as stiff as Aero's FQHH, thus much more comfortable within a shorter period of break-in. He's had it for several riding seasons. Contact Thurston Bros. and check on availability and what models they can get in the Vanson HH.
HD

 

[Edward]

It depends which model of Vanson you're looking at - some have the split back, some don't.

http://vansonleathers.com/main_page/chapters/mens/rockers.htm

I imagine for most people it's a matter of taste. A lot of folks for years denounced split backs on jacket forums, as they were a feature often seen on cheaper jackets, therefore they became equated with 'cheap' and 'poor'. Unfairly so, IMO. The aesthetics are subjective. It can affect the fit, of course - I remember Aero (I think it was Denny?) posting on here that the Board Racer can be ordered without the back centre seam, but that it would mean they couldn't give it as snug a fit as most want in that style. I'm sure that's as true for a perfecto type as a cafe racer. Aside from that, I'm sure it also has production advantages - easier to find two, great, smaller pieces of hide than one big one, for instance.

I really like the look of the Vanson jackets on that page (URL I quote above). Nearly bought a Vanson Highwayman once on deep discount, but decided against it because I just couldn't live with the side-lacing. I know its purpose, I just don't care for its aesthetic. C'est la vie!

 

[IXL]

One of my favorite riding jackets is a Vanson CHP. I chose this jacket (to be worn over a Patagonia NannoPuff liner) a few days ago for a ride of 200 miles. We left in the morning, with temps in the 40's°F. Zipping the jacket all the way up sealed well around my neck.
After several stops and hours, the sun was up and the weather was warming. After jettisoning the liner, as the weather continued to warm, the zipper kept getting lowered so as to increase ventilation. At some point it was unzipped to the extent that the collar and lapel snaps were fastened, leaving a wide "scoop" in the front which allowed a huge amount of cooling in the then-hot sunshine.
I know of no other jacket style which can accommodate such a temperature shift as well. I do have cafe racers and enjoy them, but even unzipping them as much as one can without causing undue flapping will not give as much cooling as the lancer-style front of the Perfecto-style. And best of all..... I look like Johnny Stabler while wearing one.

 

[Sheepdog149]

I have a few, including Lost Worlds' Speed Demon, but I find myself wearing a distressed Avirex one more often than the others.

Sent from my SM-G920P using Tapatalk

 

[GraceNote13]

I've had Aero, Vanson and Schott over the years. For riding I always seem to grab my old Vanson, but for style the Aero is hard to beat. The Schott's look great but the fit never worked for me. Some of my Vanson's are over 20 years old now, they don't patina like Aero's but they are solidly built and will break in like a second skin.

You should also consider Johnson Leathers, Alan there is working on a jacket for me currently.

 

[ColdCut]

Sounds like there's a lot of support for Vanson!

I looked through the Vanson designs, and the Chopper, Rock and Roller, and C2 really stand out. How do these compare with a Schott 613/618 in terms of fit?

I also came across a model called the Vanson Daredevil - from my understanding, it's a slimmer fit version of the derby, but does it warrant the $900 dollar cost, especially when it's not even in Vansons comp leather?

 

[Monitor]

I don't like the Daredevil.
Did you look into the Thunderbird?
http://www.vansonleathers.com/prod-Tunderbird___Firenze-605.aspx?
Apart from the kidney panel, looks virtually identical to the 618 and I'm sure you won't find a better jacket. Vanson has always been my favorite.

 

[ron521]

I've had several Schott Perfectos, a 618 and a 118, both nice except for having the belt permanently attached, and my favorite in this style, a 125, which I still have. The 125 comes with loops for a belt, but no belt attached, and is about one inch longer in back and best of all, has a zip-out lining, so you can use it in warmer weather. You can tell they've been refining the design for more than 75 years, because it really works well for actually riding a motorcycle. I've no complaints about quality of construction.

 

[Damo]

Did you end up getting a perfecto style jacket coldcut?

 

[regius]

I don't like the Daredevil.
Did you look into the Thunderbird?
http://www.vansonleathers.com/prod-Tunderbird___Firenze-605.aspx?
Apart from the kidney panel, looks virtually identical to the 618 and I'm sure you won't find a better jacket. Vanson has always been my favorite.

any chance could post a pic of you wearing the thunderbird? would love to see how it fits, thanks! I know Vanson jackets are very ergonomic, it's stiff but the mobility is at all the right places, so you don't feel you are moving against the jacket.