OTHER THAN eBAY Hats: Victories, Defeats, Gripes & Items of Interest

[Baron Kurtz]

Depending on what was said, yes. Certainly not for just refusing to do business, or for swearing at someone or being aggressive.

An example: shouting at someone in a black hat and calling them an F-ing C. will not generally result in many problems (unless of course the black hat is a police hat) The word "plebs" doesn't go down to well in certain parts of London either This is unfortunate, and I'm of the opinion that we should definitely prosecute anyone who tries to bully someone else in such a manner.

However, insert the word "Jewish" or any of the derogatory synonyms in the shout, and you'll certainly be hit with a fine and/or jail time. And rightly so. These are laws that attempt to define the line between opinion ("you look like a twat") and abuse based on religious/sexuality/gender/whatever-based hate and discrimination ("you look like a twat because you look Jewish"). It finally put to bed the old chestnut of "I have a right to be a racist". You do indeed, but you do not have a right to air those sentiments in public, and certainly you have no right to abuse people.

You're not SERIOUS!!! A hate crime????

 

[Brad Bowers]

https://www.etsy.com/transaction/181846903?ref=fb2_tnx_title

I had been watching this for some time. Beautiful hat, beautiful lining (no, it doesn't have the "printed compass" Ole!, lol). I can't wait until it arrives because I would like to know if this was sold from a millinery shop in a hotel, as the lining says "The Denver".

The Denver was a large department store in Denver, Colorado. I remember shopping there as a kid, especially at Christmas time. It was originally known as the Denver Dry Goods Company, but eventually became simple "The Denver," because that's what everyone called it. I'm guessing that's where your hat came from.

Brad

 

[CaramelSmoothie]

The Denver was a large department store in Denver, Colorado. I remember shopping there as a kid, especially at Christmas time. It was originally known as the Denver Dry Goods Company, but eventually became simple "The Denver," because that's what everyone called it. I'm guessing that's where your hat came from.

Brad

Thanks Brad! I do have a 1960s straw hat with the Denver Dry Goods label, I believe.

 

[Mr.Astor]

Depending on what was said, yes. Certainly not for just refusing to do business, or for swearing at someone or being aggressive.

An example: shouting at someone in a black hat and calling them an F-ing C. will not generally result in many problems (unless of course the black hat is a police hat) The word "plebs" doesn't go down to well in certain parts of London either This is unfortunate, and I'm of the opinion that we should definitely prosecute anyone who tries to bully someone else in such a manner.

However, insert the word "Jewish" or any of the derogatory synonyms in the shout, and you'll certainly be hit with a fine and/or jail time. And rightly so. These are laws that attempt to define the line between opinion ("you look like a twat") and abuse based on religious/sexuality/gender/whatever-based hate and discrimination ("you look like a twat because you look Jewish"). It finally put to bed the old chestnut of "I have a right to be a racist". You do indeed, but you do not have a right to air those sentiments in public, and certainly you have no right to abuse people.

Wow! I think you have been digested. Who enforces these nasty comments the police or the recipient?

 

[Rick Blaine]

...hate crime/thought crime

Depending on what was said, yes. Certainly not for just refusing to do business, or for swearing at someone or being aggressive.

An example: shouting at someone in a black hat and calling them an F-ing C. will not generally result in many problems (unless of course the black hat is a police hat) The word "plebs" doesn't go down to well in certain parts of London either This is unfortunate, and I'm of the opinion that we should definitely prosecute anyone who tries to bully someone else in such a manner.

However, insert the word "Jewish" or any of the derogatory synonyms in the shout, and you'll certainly be hit with a fine and/or jail time. And rightly so. These are laws that attempt to define the line between opinion ("you look like a twat") and abuse based on religious/sexuality/gender/whatever-based hate and discrimination ("you look like a twat because you look Jewish"). It finally put to bed the old chestnut of "I have a right to be a racist". You do indeed, but you do not have a right to air those sentiments in public, and certainly you have no right to abuse people.

Here we have found the best counter to objectionable speech is... more speech.
"I may disagree with what you have to say, but I shall defend, to the death, your right to say it." ~ Voltaire
Just sayin'.
Not tryin' to start a fracas, barkeep.

 

[Mr.Astor]

Amen!

 

[Baron Kurtz]

Let's begin by saying that I agree in the case cited above (unfortunate straw hat salesman) it would be absurd to prosecute. Also that Voltaire was full of nice aphorisms. What he was actually talking about was rather nuanced, however - re: what could one say about the Monarch and the church in the 1750s - so its use by the free speech lobby is a little disingenuous. whatever, we'll leave that there.

Here we have found the best counter to objectionable speech is... more speech.
"I may disagree with what you have to say, but I shall defend, to the death, your right to say it." ~ Voltaire
Just sayin'.
Not tryin' to start a fracas, barkeep.

And I shall defend the right of the abused party to seek redress. The argument isn't really about free speech, it's about the right of a person to not be abused for no good reason (i.e. for simply existing in their sex/race/religion whatever). That this behaviour has been boiled down to "I have my rights, man" is almost the logical end of the kind of boomer self-obsession that dominates the narrative in many areas. "I exist and therefore I can say and do whatever I want, independent of the consequences to other people". The two major streams of social development in the western democracies - social democracy in Europe and similar but rather more conservative strand in the US - have dealt with these issues differently. I've lived all over and I honestly see no difference between general levels of freedom in the US and elsewhere, including Londonistan/hyperboleville UK. It is nice, however, to live in a country where there is some redress for overt racist behaviour, for example.

Can anyone argue that they have the right to abuse someone else? If someone chooses to verbally abuse a person, why should the other party not have the right to break their legs in reply? (I know, it's a bit of a straw man, but not too much, I think) tbh, if pornography is freedom of speech, then so is the use of fists when provoked. Is it right that some blaring moron should walk down the street screaming obscenities without danger of arrest ("that's my freedom of speech you're trampling, buddy boy"), but would be arrested if she revealed her breasts? Ahh contradictions, dontcha love 'em?

I agree, btw, bartenders, that there is nothing political here. This is a discussion of social norms, not politics. Nothing to see here …

 

[fedoracentric]

Nope, this is the solution: "Here we have found the best counter to objectionable speech is... more speech."

Baron Kurtz' European view is not wanted here in the US.

Now can we get back to hats?

 

[g.durand]

Since this is a worldwide forum Mr. Centric, I suggest we respectfully allow Mr. Kurtz and our other European friends their reasoned and nuanced views.

But I agree, back to hats!

 

[fedoracentric]

"Allow"??? Who said he shouldn't be allowed to say anything?

 

[TheDane]

"Allow"??? Who said he shouldn't be allowed to say anything?

I think, g.durand's comment - quite rightfully - was on your level of respect.

 

[Garrett]

Will try to Re-rail this thread:

https://poshmark.com/listing/529cd225b539e413c20f5f65

 

[splintercellsz]

Beautiful find!

 

[carouselvic]

+1

Beautiful find!

 

[alanfgag]

+2... It's raining these things.

 

[DJH]

Since this is a worldwide forum Mr. Centric, I suggest we respectfully allow Mr. Kurtz and our other European friends their reasoned and nuanced views.

Europeans should be banned


Oh, wait - that includes me

 

[Mr.Astor]

Opinion's are like noses everyone has one!

 

[TheDane]

I was born with my anatomy - and my very substantial nose. I can't be proud of my nose, no matter how it looks. My parents chose/made it - and not to my advantage, I think.

My opinions, on the other hand, are all my own contributions. That leaves me the possibility to be proud or embarrassed of my opinions. Two completely different things in my mind - and I'm absolutely not embarrassed of my opinions, Sir!

 

[fedoracentric]

...Thin skin aside, of course.

 

[TheDane]

...Thin skin aside, of course.

- and thick skulls, as well!