New Goodwear Prices

[ForestForTheTrees]

My intent is not to single out Goodwear, they simply provide a reference point in a larger discussion. The same thoughts I'm sharing here applies to other artisans in niche markets of all sorts. For businesses such as this, It's doubtful that many of them would manage to exist, let alone charge the kind of prices they do if the Internet didn't exist.

I will say that I have no idea how large Goodwears brick 'n mortar operation is or how large their local business is in the overall scheme of things and will admit that this is simply speculation on my part. I personally have no problems with the prices they charge and that people are willing to pay. Just conversing, nothing more.

 

[HoosierDaddy]

"With Vickie and Tiffany working with me, I need to make more cash. I have a queue of 150 jackets, which is insanity. That just has to stop. Raising prices should really slow things down."

Which would suggest that he's put the price up because demand has gone through the roof in terms of what he can, and would like, to handle. He must be working like a Trojan.

Yeah. I posted something similar several pages back..but it got lost in the shuffle of what and why something is and is not worth..the price of gold then and now..and just what Goodyear should really do..or something like that...[huh] The main reason and simplicity of JC's price move has morphed into a debate of something else entirely. :eusa_doh: Oh well..
HD

 

[Smithy]

Yeah. I posted something similar several pages back..but it got lost in the shuffle of what and why something is and is not worth..the price of gold then and now..and just what Goodyear should really do..or something like that...[huh] The main reason and simplicity of JC's price move has morphed into a debate of something else entirely. :eusa_doh: Oh well..
HD

You're bang on HD. Gold fluctuations, the price of oil add little to this.

At the end of the day, John is so under the pump that he raised the prices to shorten his work line. He wants to make sure he's absolutely getting those customers who demand the level of accuracy that he provides. It's not for everyone (and to be honest I'm one who are not after this) but I can totally understand why he has done this.

He doesn't want his waiting line to get out of proportion and wants to make sure that those who are signing up for his product are the real deal, and good on him for doing this. Having 150 jackets in the queue must be tough work.

 

[thor]

You're bang on HD. Gold fluctuations, the price of oil add little to this.

At the end of the day, John is so under the pump that he raised the prices to shorten his work line. He wants to make sure he's absolutely getting those customers who demand the level of accuracy that he provides. It's not for everyone (and to be honest I'm one who are not after this) but I can totally understand why he has done this.

He doesn't want his waiting line to get out of proportion and wants to make sure that those who are signing up for his product are the real deal, and good on him for doing this. Having 150 jackets in the queue must be tough work.

Maybe he should just raise prices to an even $3,000 (in line with the insane price of some Japanese jacket makers) to REALLY perfect his business model?

 

[HoosierDaddy]

Maybe he should just raise prices to an even $3,000 (in line with the insane price of some Japanese jacket makers) to REALLY perfect his business model?

..Or..maybe he should do exactly what he has already done. I think John should know how much of an effort it is to meet demand with his one man band (that evidentally he wants to keep that way). Seems he is willing to take the gamble that there will still be enough orders to make it worthwhile at these new prices and,perhaps,put back more of the joy into piecing them together. Plus more time to do other things like shearling...and even life after work.
HD

 

[tonypaj]

...and even life after work.

You mean afterlife? As it is to many of us...

 

[Aerojoe]

Maybe he should just raise prices to an even $3,000 (in line with the insane price of some Japanese jacket makers) to REALLY perfect his business model? 

I agree I have seen this very same behavior in other products like custom cars or custom guitars. You first can't cope with your backlog. Since you have plenty of incoming orders, you rise your prices.

You pass from a high-end product to an ultra high-end line. Then you rise your prices again and you are producing for Hollywood stars. That puts you out of your target audience - historically accurate leather jackets enthusiasts.

R'n'R stars want customizations for their big money and then all of a sudden, you find yourself doing something you really don't like for people you really don't like.

Something similar happened to an early Ken Calder [huh] Nothing new in this business. Anyway, I don't blame John at all. It is his company and he can do whatever he thinks is ok with his prices.

 

[Fanch]

It is all about supply and demand. John is at liberty to charge whatever he wants. He is charging primarily for his expertise and his time. It is up to the market to determine whether his move was the correct one. There should be no debate from any of us regarding his decision, which rests on him and him alone.

 

[Foster]

And if need be, he can always adjust pricing back lower based on demand. It's not like he can't change it back if the increase hurts business. And if not, from a business perspective it makes sense to increase prices when the input materials and labor costs rise.

 

[hpalapdog]

And I wouldn't pay more than $20 to see a live sporting event. What's your point? The average person has never even heard of a horsehide jacket. For the umpteenth time, the price of a horsehide jacket is no different than it used to be. Yes, demand is smaller. But guess what? Supply is smaller, too! Supply and demand are in balance and the clearing price of a horsehide leather jacket is still around 1/2 to 2/3 of an ounce of gold. No different. Check the old catalogs. Check the old prices. And convert to the prevailing gold price at the time and you'll see what I am telling you. We are NOT bidding against ourselves to drive up the price. If there was more demand, there'd be more supply and the price wouldn't change. There is set demand (smaller than the past). Demand is being met by supply (also smaller than the past). The price is largely unchanged. John raising his price isn't proof of anything except his jackets are more upscale than he realized and should command a premium. Don't believe me? Okay.

I don't understand why you base inflation on the price of gold. Gold has it's industrial and commercial uses but it's also a highly speculated commodity. We live in a World of fractional reserve banking where the money supply is not connected to gold reserves.
The retail price index or consumer price index is a better guide to inflation. This is a basket of goods containing essentials plus other items measured over time.
I did the calculation some time back for Eastman comparing their prices in the late 1980's to 2007. Their prices had gone up more than inflation but not by much at around 25% higher. Incidentally clothing in general are one of the items that have shown dramatic falls in inflation adjusted pricing over the years. Goodwear and ELC are in the luxury sector where pricing is inelastic. Concepts of value or true value are not at the forefront of the consumers buying decision so above inflation price increases may not affect demand for them.

It would be interesting to see what percentage of average income a Buco cost in 1940 compared to the equivalent Vanson bike jacket today. I expect the percentage to be smaller today.

 

[Graemsay]

Add to the fact that we can only wear one jacket at a time the fact that its only jacket weather for about 8 months out if the year and that we usually just wear a jacket to and from our place of work or to where ever we are going (ie not indoors) and the long break-in period for FQHH, it makes one wonder if we'd ever get our money's worth for the jackets we own!

I'm actually very much of the opinion that you should have fewer jackets.

The best looking leathers are ones that have been worn to death, and then some. If you've got half-a-dozen jackets then they're not going to see enough action to get to that sort of state.

 

[Sloan1874]

Personally, I keep one solely for answering the door.

 

[hpalapdog]

Be it jackets, guitars, or any number of other items that people tend to obsess over, I chalk a lot of these trends up to the internet. Online forums such as this one allows like-minded individuals to develop a skewed sense of normal behavior. To the average person, a jacket running in the four figure range or an acoustic guitar running in the five figure range is just plain insane. Now consider that some people have not just one expensive jacket or one expensive guitar but multiples, sometimes many more. To an average person on the street that's simply nuts, but in the security of an online forum, it doesn't seem so abnormal. This applies to countless other objects or interests and it's a big part of why people seek out others who feel and act the same way. Sure, collectors have always existed, but online forums have a way of way taking people who start with a mere interest in something and develops that interest into a full blown obsession. The more we see others exhibiting this behavior, the more logical it all seems. Soon, our sense of normalcy is highly skewed due to this group dynamic. In the end, many end up so fixated on acquiring items that they're interested in, they sometimes loose track of what interested them in the first place. For example, someone fixating on the individual high-end stereo components to the point where that person doesn't ever just sit back and enjoy listening to music any more, or becoming so obsessed with the specific woods used in the construction of an acoustic guitar that the person spends more time chatting about it on the internet than they actually spend playing the thing. It's always been a crazy world, the internet has simply gotten everyone together and has enabled them to influence one another in ways that were not imaginable a few decades ago. This definitely has an impact in smaller niche markets where products made by highly skilled craftspeople have an otherwise limited market. All of a sudden, the world has learned about their product and is knocking at their door.

I'm not knocking anyone for their interests or passions and feel that everyone is entitled to spend their money however they see fit. I'm simply making an observation of how I see the internet playing a role in all of this. At times, it's eerily fascinating to me. The initial search for knowledge regarding quality leather jackets is what lead me to TFL in the first place. I've learned a lot here and for that I'm grateful as I ended up finding exactly what I was looking for in a jacket. I can say though that If I even begin to consider purchasing a third expensive jacket then I'll know it's time to take a break from this place. I've already purchased one more jacket than I originally planned on. That doesn't strike me quite as odd as it would have before I found this place.

Good post.

Whilst it's true that internet forums can facilitate and affirm irrational behaviour in past times magazine subscriptions could do likewise. You only have to look at Victorian era publications to see the vast network of clubs and societies catering for all interests !

Obsessing over ever smaller details is one of the pitfalls of collecting. The other is hoarding. The first can cause cognitive dissonance, the discomfort or stress caused when the acquisition turns out to have perceived imperfections no matter how small. The item is quickly sold on and replaced by another closer to the imagined ideal. The imagined ideal is of course unobtainable.

 

[Sloan1874]

At any point that you're reduced to using a magnifying glass to satisfy your need for pin-point accuracy, then it's time to take a step back and maybe go for a brisk walk.

 

[nick123]

Add to the fact that we can only wear one jacket at a time the fact that its only jacket weather for about 8 months out if the year and that we usually just wear a jacket to and from our place of work or to where ever we are going (ie not indoors) and the long break-in period for FQHH, it makes one wonder if we'd ever get our money's worth for the jackets we own! 

I guess I'm responding because the moderators have yet to delete my account (if ever lol)...but am I strange for wearing my jackets probably 340 days a year? Even if I can wear the jacket for only few hours in the morning in summer while grabbing a coffee, I do it. There is no way I can hang up a jacket for more than a week or two without having withdrawals.

 

[thor]

I guess I'm responding because the moderators have yet to delete my account (if ever lol)...but am I strange for wearing my jackets probably 340 days a year? Even if I can wear the jacket for only few hours in the morning in summer while grabbing a coffee, I do it. There is no way I can hang up a jacket for more than a week or two without having withdrawals.

+1

 

[HoosierDaddy]

Personally, I keep one solely for answering the door.

Hey..I do too..and then the badass Bootlegger for arguing on the internet. lol

 

[ForestForTheTrees]

Hey..I do too..and then the badass Bootlegger for arguing on the internet. lol

Developing a new breaking-in technique perhaps?

 

[HoosierDaddy]

Developing a new breaking-in technique perhaps?

Perhaps! But only being able to type with one finger is only breaking in the right sleeve cuff...slightly.

 

[Sloan1874]

Perhaps! But only being able to type with one finger is only breaking in te right sleeve cuff...slightly.