New ELC Hartmann

[BellyTank]

Great to hear from you, eClairvaux and murena.

Quite often, here on the Lounge, we miss out on a different perspective.
You both, individually, have a different take on this situation, always good to hear from
people who are, perhaps, potentially more effected by, or sensitive to this than most of us who are
actually commenting.

Thanks.

And murena, I know exactly what you mean about the repro jacket but when a vendor, such as ELC
and Aero tell people about how exactly correct their products are, people do tend to believe them-
say no more.
There are always allowances made, figuratively and literally, in the manufacture of these jackets.
Artistic license, perhaps, maybe even autistic.

But then, it is also a nice looking jacket, when you look around, there aren't so many nice, repro'd vintage
European style jackets available.


B
T

 

[dit dah]

My thanks also for people’s comments on a what I consider a most interesting subject. It is a testimony to the maturity of those on this forum that these issues can be discussed in this manner. I feel bad that we seem to have hijacked Hawk Eye’s thread , but I’d welcome the chance to extend this, so perhaps this “argument” should be taken outside? Could this be made into a new thread? Would anyone be interested in that?

My interest in this is what I see as a possibly selective conscience, a softening of perspective or a blurring of morals. It’s all incredibly individual of course and rather depends how high your gauge is set. Each must draw his or her own line and, to an extent, respect that of others.

I think it begs certain questions:

In England, the wearing of the St George cross is seen as offensive, indicative of an aggressive empire building nation and discouraged or even banned. Yet we are happy to make and market the clothing of a fascist led army.

Fascination with WW2 grows but must the conversation now be reframed to prevent offence? No sane person would hold to account an entire nation or it’s armed forces let alone future generations for the acts instigated by their ruling party. All nations have skeletons and of course present subjects need feel no guilt for past demeanours (although British self loathing would challenge that theory).

But what draws us to this period? Celebration of war? Of determination, resolve and victory? Of national pride? Perhaps just whimsy?

Of course there are levels. A pair of German Army wool trousers used for winter hikes is not akin to having a swastika tattoo. But they are non specific and unbadged. If you were an RAF veteran would you like to see your Grandson wearing Luftwaffe clothing?

If you choose to wear a garment with clear and specific links to any individual or group then this choice is surely founded on one of the following: 1) You admire or hold fascination with the group, 2) You do not, but want the garment badly enough to overlook the link 3) You wish to cause offence (Hell’s Angels adoption of SS insignia etc) 4) You don’t really think about things on such levels (I envy your bliss but find it disconcerting).

Symbols are powerful, meaningful are important. We ignore them at our peril. My money is on the decadence with which we view the world we live in now and how it got to be the way it is. Twas not always thus and will only remain so if we care enough.

I think that by wearing vintage, or vintage inspired clothing we are involved in a debate about the past on some level, however basic. I welcome that debate.

 

[eClairvaux]

All nations have skeletons and of course present subjects need feel no guilt for past demeanours (although British self loathing would challenge that theory).

I agree that it is not a reason to feel guilt, but it is a chance to take responsibility and prevent history from repeating itself in that respect, in whatever form (it doesn't make it easy for you, by delivering the exact copy to alarm everybody)

If you choose to wear a garment with clear and specific links to any individual or group then this choice is surely founded on one of the following: 1) You admire or hold fascination with the group, 2) You do not, but want the garment badly enough to overlook the link 3) You wish to cause offence (Hell’s Angels adoption of SS insignia etc) 4) You don’t really think about things on such levels (I envy your bliss but find it disconcerting).

I think within the context of this forum reasons #1 and #4 will be most likely and frankly I think they are inseperable and just different stages of the same attitude (which I, again, do not criticize in general). May be the real motivation is much more rooted in the military nature of those items. "You have not to be a psychologist to understand that this means escape from feminine, a wish to gain a foothold in such masculine qualities, like decisiveness and power." [1]

I think that by wearing vintage, or vintage inspired clothing we are involved in a debate about the past on some level, however basic. I welcome that debate.

I am not sure, may be all has been said already and everything on top of that would require another form?

What does the bartender think?

[1] http://ezinearticles.com/?Psychology-of-Clothing&id=166295

 

[Creeping Past]

Deleted by user in the interests of not causing a fuss.

 

[eClairvaux]

Deleted by user in the interests of not causing a fuss.

I sincerely hope I did not provoke you, I certainly didn't mean to.

My apologies!

 

[Creeping Past]

Not at all! I thought better of re-joining this discussion. Sometimes it's enough to write a post — and then delete it...

 

[dit dah]

Not at all! I thought better of re-joining this discussion. Sometimes it's enough to write a post — and then delete it...

Very wise, perhaps if your book has any leaves to spare I should look at taking one of them from you....