My vintage leather jacket and I are reunited after 14 years apart!!

[Navin323i]

You all are reading the post of a VERY HAPPY man right now... I feel like a little kid at Christmas after receiving the gift that he's always wanted.

So here's the story... 14 years ago during my senior year in college, my older brother surprised me for my birthday and got me a vintage steerhide leather jacket that at the time really wasn't my style of jacket (I thought it was too tight and small on me and I was more into wearing clothes that were more baggy and relaxed). In my defense, the internet back then was nothing like it is today so I had no way of thoroughly researching the jacket and knowing that steerhide takes time to break in, so I assumed the tightness I felt was because of it being too small on me.

So I did a dumb thing... gave the jacket to my younger brother since it fit him better and he wound up trading it to his college friend for a set of tablas (percussion instrument from India). Years went by and I always thought about that jacket and how I wished I had kept it, especially given the sentimental quality of it being that my older brother got it for me.

14 years later I got in touch with my younger brother's friend who had the jacket sitting in his closet at his parents home in Maryland and we agreed to swap back the tablas and jacket, so it's mine again - I picked up the jacket last night at my friend's parents house, and best of all the jacket seems to fit me! During the past 14 years the jacket got more broken in which is why it probably fits me better now.

The jacket is made by Irvin Foster. Has anyone here heard of this jacket maker? Is this the same person I see who makes the war-style jackets (Irvin B. Foster)? I've also seen posts here referring to "Irvin" jackets... again I'm not sure if these are all different companies or the same one.

Pictures are below but the questions I'm hoping you can answer are:

1) How old do you think this jacket is? 1950s?

2) How much is the jacket worth? I see an Irvin Foster leather jacket on eBay selling for $400.

3) Where in the U.S. was Irvin Foster's leather jacket company located?

4) This is really my first vintage jacket. Would getting the jacket dyed the same black color and repairing/replacing the lining affect the worth of the jacket?

I've included some additional comments/questions above the pictures below...

It's interesting that there is a picture of a horse here, even though the jacket is made of steerhide and not horsehide

I find the area circled in blue particularly interesting... the same area exists on the other side of the jacket as well.
I'm not sure if this is just a design thing or serves a functional purpose... but it looks cool to me.

You can see the zipper is broken... I wonder if this is repairable or if I have to get the entire zipper replaced?
The zipper slider has the word "Conmatic" and on the back of the slider it says, "Conmar USA BW 34"
Anyone here heard of this zipper maker? Are they reputable? I'm more familiar with Talon and YKK.

I had no recollection that this jacket came with storm cuffs. I'm undecided on whether to keep the storm cuffs or not.
I'm wondering if storm cuffs have the added purpose of preventing the jacket sleeves from riding up more when stretching out my arms?
Lining is definitely worn and torn at the cuffs

You can see some of the wear and tear here as well... hopefully it can be repaired.

This will definitely need to be repaired... you can see the stitching that came undone

 

[Navin323i]

My wife and her girlfriends all said the jacket fits me really nicely... do you all agree? I like how the shoulders in the jacket accentuate and compliment my broad shoulders.

When I stretch my arms out the jacket goes back this far which is why 14 years ago I thought the jacket was too small for me

Oops... sorry for the picture coming out sideways.
I fixed it in my photo editing software but when I uploaded it to photobucket I see that it's sideways again... oh well.

Thanks for looking.

 

[Speedbird]

Wow Navin! That's an impressive feat to reunite yourself with an old jacket - I bet there's a few of us who wish we could reunite ourselves with some long gone items!

It is also a really nice jacket! :eusa_clap :eusa_clap :eusa_clap

A few simple starters on your questions to get things going but you will get a lot more detail to follow I am sure.

The Irvin you see mentioned in regards to WW2 British/Commonwealth flying jackets is a different, unrelated Irvin; but nonetheless, your Irvin I believe is a well known/respected maker - I have heard of them but have no precise knowledge - but for the name to have travelled across the Atlantic to me it must have had some significance to me somewhere along the line.

The Conmar zip is a well-known vintage zip, used in wartime A-2'sfor example (along with others); it's existence predates the all-conquering YKK and is contemporary to Talon, Lightning etc.

I personally wouldn't redye the leather, but it might benefit from a clean and some leather feed if it is dry and brittle.

It does have that simple, clean body hugging shape that the Highwayman references so well. I like the red lining contrast - the classic biker jackets always seem to have the red lining. I wonder where that started?

It looks properly vintage to me but not sure when to date it - perhaps 60's/70's? (erring on the side of caution - I think earlier rather than later)

It's lovely!

 

[Italian-wiseguy]

That's a very nice jacket, Navin!
And the story of the reunion is even better

To me, it fits you perfectly; you look cool in it! :eusa_clap
I'd don't bother about sleeves riding just a little up when you stretch your arms, it looks ok anyway.

PS
When I'll find where my brother put the camera I'll take pictures of my indian made non vintage jacket!
By the way, my leather sport coat was made by Bata, so chances are it came from India too (Bata started to operate in India since, maybe, the '50s?)

Ciao!!

 

[pipvh]

What a cool story - and a brilliant jacket.

Irvin Foster made G-1 flight jackets for the US Navy in the 1960s. There's an extremely nice one here: http://moorecustom.com/jackets/G-1_7823A_IFoster_42.htm. Your jacket looks older, though - 50s at least, and the Conmar would back that up.

But my question is... did anyone ever learn the tablas?

 

[BigHairyFinn]

I need to congratulate you on fitting into a jacket you had 14-years ago.:eusa_clap

I bloated up after my army stint, so anything I wore at 18 were far beyond what I was 28...

As for those "marked blue" places I shy off jackets having them. Basically its a rubber sown into the leather like in say some police jackets & cloth jackets (or your underpants) The "old fashioned" way would be to have some sort of a strap adjustment there. Its a bit like with the inner straps on the G-1 jackets they get brittle when old and "smooth out", the rubber isn't as lasting as the leather.

As for the "being too small" when you stretch out - I'd been in the same opinion, I "drive&ride" so I want the sleeve to be past my watch when I stretch out. But its a matter of taste. I don't like sleevs riding up that much.

BTW as far as vintage jackets go, I think thats as cool as they get

 

[Navin323i]

Wow Navin! That's an impressive feat to reunite yourself with an old jacket - I bet there's a few of us who wish we could reunite ourselves with some long gone items!

It is also a really nice jacket! :eusa_clap :eusa_clap :eusa_clap

A few simple starters on your questions to get things going but you will get a lot more detail to follow I am sure.

The Irvin you see mentioned in regards to WW2 British/Commonwealth flying jackets is a different, unrelated Irvin; but nonetheless, your Irvin I believe is a well known/respected maker - I have heard of them but have no precise knowledge - but for the name to have travelled across the Atlantic to me it must have had some significance to me somewhere along the line.

The Conmar zip is a well-known vintage zip, used in wartime A-2'sfor example (along with others); it's existence predates the all-conquering YKK and is contemporary to Talon, Lightning etc.

I personally wouldn't redye the leather, but it might benefit from a clean and some leather feed if it is dry and brittle.

It does have that simple, clean body hugging shape that the Highwayman references so well. I like the red lining contrast - the classic biker jackets always seem to have the red lining. I wonder where that started?

It looks properly vintage to me but not sure when to date it - perhaps 60's/70's? (erring on the side of caution - I think earlier rather than later)

It's lovely!

Hello there! Thank you so much for the compliments and for the excellent info you provided.

I was able to take my jacket to a well-known leather guy in my area here (he's an elderly Jamaican fellow who basically restores leather jackets, furnature, leather car interiors, and Coach purses... he told me he gets quite a number of folks who ship to him their vintage leather jackets that he restores).

Basically he recommends reconditioning the leather since it is dry and the areas that you see on the jacket sleeve and shoulders where you see the white patches he can dye black. This is the same guy who re-dyed the Indian leather jacket you see in my Avatar... the only difference is that Indian jacket's leather is an ok-quality cowhide that after being dyed you can still see the underlying original color if you STRETCH the jacket leather, whereas with my vintage Foster steerhide jacket he said if he dyes it black then it will permanently stay black.

He is able to source similar colored red interior lining which he can install and then transfer the "Irvin Foster name tag" to the new interior lining. The old one cannot be repaired and is especially worn in the sleeve area. I figure that since I'll be wearing this jacket a lot, I might as well get it restored so that it looks and feels cleaner.

The bad news is the zipper cannot be repaired. He has to replace the zipper and would use a YKK branded zipper.

Do either you or anyone else here know where I could purchase a Conmar zipper (not just the slider but the whole zipper thing, teeth and all) that I could have installed for my jacket? Ideally I'd prefer keeping a vintage zipper on this jacket even if it's not Conmar. My leather guy indicated that if I provide him a replacement zipper then it should be a commercial zipper of length at least 24 inches I believe.

 

[Navin323i]

That's a very nice jacket, Navin!
And the story of the reunion is even better

To me, it fits you perfectly; you look cool in it! :eusa_clap
I'd don't bother about sleeves riding just a little up when you stretch your arms, it looks ok anyway.

PS
When I'll find where my brother put the camera I'll take pictures of my indian made non vintage jacket!
By the way, my leather sport coat was made by Bata, so chances are it came from India too (Bata started to operate in India since, maybe, the '50s?)

Ciao!!

Grazie molte! Sorry I don't know your name.

It's funny and ironic that the one jacket that I thought all these years never fit me is the one jacket that I own that fits me the best, lol.

I look forward to seeing your Indian jacket pictures... is that the Bata one you are referring to or is that a different jacket?

Bata is very popular in India. I know Bata shoes and sandals are very popular there... I had no idea that Bata makes jackets too. You have taught me something new today.

 

[Navin323i]

What a cool story - and a brilliant jacket.

Irvin Foster made G-1 flight jackets for the US Navy in the 1960s. There's an extremely nice one here: http://moorecustom.com/jackets/G-1_7823A_IFoster_42.htm. Your jacket looks older, though - 50s at least, and the Conmar would back that up.

But my question is... did anyone ever learn the tablas?

Thank you so much! Sorry I don't know your name either... I hate referring to people by their screen names... way too impersonal for my tastes.

Mark Moye who is the Aero Leather USA rep has a Foster G-1 flight jacket that you're referring to. I sent Mark the pics of my Foster jacket and he also seems to think 1950s

One bit of information I have learned since my initial post here... I spoke to my older brother today over the phone and he told me that he had acquired the jacket back in 1996 when he was working part-time at a thrift store. An elderly woman had come to my brother's store one day with the jacket that had belonged to her deceased husband. My brother wound up purchasing the jacket, had it professionally cleaned and then gave it to me as a birthday present. So chances are this jacket is from the 50s.

I also forgot to mention... after I acquired the jacket last night at my friend's parents house (they wound up feeding me snacks and tea while we chatted about the old college days I spent with their kids) I wound up driving straight to my older brother's house, showed him the jacket, gave him the biggest hug, and thanked him again for such a thoughtful birthday gift 14 years ago... I also apologized PROFUSELY to him for me stupidly giving away his gift. He forgave me.

Great question about the tablas. My brother kept the tablas all these years, didn't take formal lessons but got a ton of pointers from Indian friends of ours who studied under tabla masters like Zakhir Hussain. I plan on buying my younger brother a new set of tablas since I know he must feel bad that I had to return the tablas for my old jacket.

 

[Navin323i]

I need to congratulate you on fitting into a jacket you had 14-years ago.:eusa_clap

I bloated up after my army stint, so anything I wore at 18 were far beyond what I was 28...

As for those "marked blue" places I shy off jackets having them. Basically its a rubber sown into the leather like in say some police jackets & cloth jackets (or your underpants) The "old fashioned" way would be to have some sort of a strap adjustment there. Its a bit like with the inner straps on the G-1 jackets they get brittle when old and "smooth out", the rubber isn't as lasting as the leather.

As for the "being too small" when you stretch out - I'd been in the same opinion, I "drive&ride" so I want the sleeve to be past my watch when I stretch out. But its a matter of taste. I don't like sleevs riding up that much.

BTW as far as vintage jackets go, I think thats as cool as they get

Thank you very much!! I'm shocked that I fit into this jacket, considering I thought I didn't fit in it 14 years ago and I'm now 205lbs versus the 160-170lb range that I was 14 years ago. I got really lucky here.

Regarding the "marked blue places", on the opposite side of the jacket (the side that I didn't take a picture of), the stitching has come undone next to that blue circled area so I can actually stick my finger in that hole and basically feel the area between the leather and the interior lining... I can tell you that I do not see nor feel any rubber in that area. My initial thought was the same as yours... I thought it's maybe a rubber area that is elastic but it looks like that's not the case.

My leather jacket guy told me not to worry about the jacket sleeves riding out when stretching out my arms. It certainly won't be an issue when I'm walking (only zombies and Frankenstein monster walk that way, haha!) but it's a bit shorter than I'm used to when driving my car. I'm sure I'll get used to it. I know I'll definitely want my Aero leather jacket that's on order to have a slightly longer sleeve length... maybe an inch or so extra so that it doesn't ride up that much when driving.

 

[Aaronlowe]

Hey Navin,

Two things:

That's a cool jacket and it looks great on you.

Great haircut, too!

Aaron

 

[Navin323i]

Hey Navin,

Two things:

That's a cool jacket and it looks great on you.

Great haircut, too!

Aaron

What's up Aaron!

Haha... thank you so much for both compliments! My wife actually made me get a haircut yesterday at the hair salon she goes to since we're going out of town this weekend to Pittsburgh where my wife is originally from to celebrate her dad's 70th b-day. I like the haircut though... makes me feel 14 years younger!

 

[Navin323i]

Now comes the hard task of finding a replacement zipper... preferably the same Conmar one that I have now. Somehow I have a feeling I won't find one and will have to resort to the more common YKK one, unless any of you know where to source older zippers.

Wow... I found the exact Conmatic zipper I have (this one is silver whereas mine is gold colored)... it appears my jacket is definitely late 1950's, possibly early 1960's...

http://www.steelzipper.com/conmatic_zipper_details.html

 

[ukali1066]

Great jacket Navin !

I love the areas of wear to the arms...don't dye it just give it all a coat of Pecards
I'd also get the seam damage repaired by someone with the relevant skills

A jacket of this age and cut is worth the money to restore

And it still looks great on you....obviously you haven't ate too many samosas and pakoray since your youth

 

[Navin323i]

Great jacket Navin !

I love the areas of wear to the arms...don't dye it just give it all a coat of Pecards
I'd also get the seam damage repaired by someone with the relevant skills

A jacket of this age and cut is worth the money to restore

And it still looks great on you....obviously you haven't ate too many samosas and pakoray since your youth

Hi Ukali! Great to meet you... I've enjoyed reading all your posts here and admiring all the lovely jackets you own.

I don't know... every part of me says to dye those faded areas on the arms and shoulder... I'd rather be the one who "makes the marks/scratches" to the jacket thru my use versus seeing the marks/scratches that I didn't make. I know that sounds weird... I don't know. Would Pecards make the wear less noticeable?

Thanks for the compliment about the jacket fitment... I don't know how the jacket still fits me. I've gained about 40 to 45 lbs over the past 14 years so the jacket shouldn't fit me but it does... oh well.

 

[Speedbird]

Now comes the hard task of finding a replacement zipper... preferably the same Conmar one that I have now. Somehow I have a feeling I won't find one and will have to resort to the more common YKK one, unless any of you know where to source older zippers.

Wow... I found the exact Conmatic zipper I have (this one is silver whereas mine is gold colored)... it appears my jacket is definitely late 1950's, possibly early 1960's...

http://www.steelzipper.com/conmatic_zipper_details.html

Well done! A note of caution regarding dating by hardware alone .... 'just in time' stock control in the manufacturing business is a relatively new principle ... many factories would stock in bulk hardware like zips (for the cost efficiencies gained through large orders and also woefully bad production/sales forecasting) - this is not just clothes, but cars etc - take Ford for example The net result is a zipper made and purchased in the 50's may not make it onto a jacket for a decade or more!!! That's how come 'new old stock' items are available even now. That said, I think your jacket is still 60's at youngest and maybe even older, possibly 50's as Pip suggests. It's the side elastic thingy that makes me slightly think a little younger. But someone like Baron Kurtz would have a much better idea.

You should be able to source a replacement original Conmar zip - maybe someone like ASWATLAND could help point you in the right direction if you ask the question on the forum .... if you follow his posts you will see he regularly restores original and/or improves repros by fitting original NOS zips. So they are out there if you know where to look!

Good luck!

PS: don't dye it .... condition the leather and the marks will be less vivid ... they give it the unique patina of age that dyeing will obscure. This is a vintage jacket afterall - it has a history not entirely yours but that is kind of the point. Your new Aero is the one for you to create your own personal journey with and to own every mark ... you will have the best of both worlds.

PSS: Aero have a stock of original vintage zips.... plead with them to sell you an extra vintage zip to go with your new custom Aero special!

 

[jon z]

Hey Navin. Nice jacket & the fit is perfect for a vintage piece.

Definitely 50s. Have the lining replaced by all means but please don't have the leather dyed. There's years of history & character in that patina that money just can't buy. Just treat the leather with a good quality conditioner. You'll find this will invigorate it & it will feel slightly looser to wear as well.

That area you've circled in blue was originally a stretchable gathered section achieved by the sewing of an elastic strip on the reverse of the leather. It appears the elastic in yours has perished with time allowing the gathering to relax. Here's a pic of my Penney's half belt to show how it should look.

If your tailor is any good he should be able to fix this while he has the lining out.

Here's a link to a Japanese site.

http://www.mash-japan.co.jp/oversea/eng_repair/index_eng_repair.html

The guy that runs this will probably be able to help out with a replacement zipper. It may not be the same but at least it will be a nice period zipper rather than going down the route of using a modern item with plastic teeth that will ruin the integrity of your jacket. Don't worry if the zipper tape is not black as that is easily dyed. I've used him in the past & found him very friendly & helpful.

Good luck
John

 

[Speedbird]

^^^ I thought that elasticy side thing was from later ... I didn't know it appeared earlier than the 60's ... thanks Jon ... the FL is a great place to learn!

BTW Jon, I have noticed there is a few members from Southampton ...and I used to live there ... have you thought about a So'ton meet up???? Maybe you could start a new thread in events?

 

[jon z]

Hi Speedbird. The elastic thing certainly pre-dates even the 50s. All USN leather jackets from their introduction featured elastic strips (can't remember if it's 2 or 3) running across the action back behind the lining so that it closes when relaxed. Admittedly this was only fixed at each end to the inner seams of the of the expansion pleat so formed no gathering of the leather.

Re So'ton. I've only noticed one other member on here from the same city & he only lives a few mins car ride from me. I'm out Sunday night at the Bitterne pub in my Rockabilly 50s finest threads as a local Rockabilly band Ace Trio are playing there. I did consider asking if he wanted to meet up there but wasn't sure if the Rockabilly scene was his thing or how he'd take my proposal so thought better of it. In what area did you live?
John

 

[Speedbird]

Hi Speedbird. The elastic thing certainly pre-dates even the 50s. All USN leather jackets from their introduction featured elastic strips (can't remember if it's 2 or 3) running across the action back behind the lining so that it closes when relaxed. Admittedly this was only fixed at each end to the inner seams of the of the expansion pleat so formed no gathering of the leather.

Re So'ton. I've only noticed one other member on here from the same city & he only lives a few mins car ride from me. I'm out Sunday night at the Bitterne pub in my Rockabilly 50s finest threads as a local Rockabilly band Ace Trio are playing there. I did consider asking if he wanted to meet up there but wasn't sure if the Rockabilly scene was his thing or how he'd take my proposal so thought better of it. In what area did you live?
John

It was the waist thing I meant ...

and Bitterne!!! ..... lol I lived in Bitterne, then Burlesdon briefly, then Ocean Village briefly, then Woolston for a while.... lol

Here's a secret .. I managed Flip on Town Quay for a while before it became a UK version of Hooters ... I loved Town Quay but such a white elephant .... I was there a few weeks ago and it is sad to see it empty but it never, ever was full!