Made in China - Monarch A-2 repros

[captaincaveman1]

What do you guys thing about these? Anyone try one. Thinking about pulling the trigger just to see. Worst case scenario I just return and eat the shipping or resell on the bay.

I know, I know, it's made in China. But hey, my bonneville was made in Thailand and just about all consumer electronics are made in China too. I don't buy the "chinese can't make quality" arguement anymore...




http://cgi.ebay.com/USAAF-Type-A-2-...emQQptZLH_DefaultDomain_0?hash=item53e03bc002

damn these A-2s really ARE addictive. damn. shaking head.

 

[442RCT]

I'm really thinking about adding one of these to my orphan A-2 jacket collection as well.

If you go to the Chinese website they have more pics of them, as well as close-ups of the stitching, thickness of the leather, etc.

http://translate.google.com/transla...300c7c5.htm&prev=_t&rurl=translate.google.com

As always caveat emptor - pictures can lie if these don't really represent the jackets they are selling. But it would seem they would be shooting themselves in the foot if they sent shoddy jackets, the word would get out very fast on the internet.

If purchased through a Singapore "buyer" service, they go for around $ 330 US, plus 10% buyers commission, shipping and any customs fees that may apply, which is about what the ebay seller is asking, but the ebay listing has a return policy and a one time size adjustment exchange.

 

[Speedbird]

Belly Tank would be a good person to comment on this.....

... the seller also sells Sahariana's and Denison's and the like ... probably from the same factory. BT has also travelled far and wide in search of good production I think. He will know this seller probably!

'Made in China' doesn't equal poor quality by default these days. The workmanship can be every bit as good as anywhere else. But they do need to know, understand and be guided/supervised in what they are doing. I think a fair bit has been lost in translation both ways in this example. Stand collar for example.

I think the seller is a bit naive in his presentation of the items - the photography and display doesn't make them look as appealing as they might be.

I think this could be a re-enactors or paint enthusiasts dream come to true - potentially authenticity at a third of the price. But the hide seems a little thin and I suspect hardware will be lacking robustness. So longevity might be an issue. Which is where the arguement always comes back to.

What would be really nice is if someone who really knew what they were doing would move to China, set up shop, recruit the best artisans and then make really good jackets at half the price! Except that screws the domestic employment ... and around we go...

Anyway, I volunteer to sweep the factory floor! I like China, and I like jiao zu .... lol lol lol Heng Bang!

 

[442RCT]

Stand collar for example.
I think they backwards engineered a jacket without the stand collar In their copy, they stated the thickness of the hide they were using made a stand collar not practical. (I don't agree because my thick Seftons have a stand collar)

I think the seller is a bit naive in his presentation of the items - the photography and display doesn't make them look as appealing as they might be.

I agree, the high sheen plastic appearance of the leather finish is a turn off. But if you look at other upscale A-2 websites, their jackets also have that plastic look. What I did like were the close-ups of the stitching and micrometer pics of the comparative cross sections of the hides I wish I could read Chinese to read the copy.

But the hide seems a little thin and I suspect hardware will be lacking robustness. So longevity might be an issue. Which is where the arguement always comes back to.

The cross section and folded over pics of the hides showed them to be about 30 % thicker than the comparison hide.

What would be really nice is if someone who really knew what they were doing would move to China, set up shop, recruit the best artisans and then make really good jackets at half the price! Except that screws the domestic employment ... and around we go...

My sister is a parts buyer for Boeing Aircraft. She told me the Chinese purchased a Boeing 707 when they first came out, and backwards engineered it. She said the plane was too heavy and wouldn't fly, all the parts were the right dimensions, but materials weren't the right alloys, etc.
Boeing was impressed enough with their manufacturing process, and now outsources parts from them...under strict supervision and quality control of course.

.... lol lol lol Heng Bang!

The more opinions I'm getting about these jackets sorta makes me want to order one to see if they're as bad as expected. But to be honest, I'm not the right person to evaluate an A-2 since I like orphan jackets.

 

[1stsargent]

I saw this on the bay too and wondered if it was legit or cheap junk. I think with this sort of jacket people need to be realistic about the details. I cant attest to the quality, but I don't think this will be a stitch for stitch clone of an original monarch. I know for myself aeros and especially goodwears are out of my price range and it is nice to see an attempt at making an affordable but yet reasonably accurate a-2. But with that said I have bought repros from overseas sellers before that were almost junk. So I would like to get more info before I purchase one.

 

[JoeNiblick]

My vote is for the Captain to buy one so we can all check it out! lol

 

[captaincaveman1]

My vote is for the Captain to buy one so we can all check it out! lol

Sounds good. I'll set up a paypal donation and get a fund going. lol lol

 

[Creeping Past]

I looked into tanning in China a while ago. I'm not saying that all are as bad as the ones I've seen images and text on, but I'll not be buying Chinese leather goods until there's a way I can ascertain that there's some checkable element of animal welfare in the Chinese leather industry.

 

[rumblefish]

Pocket size

Do the pockets on these two seem a bit too tall?

It may be the way the jackets are cinched up in the back and the way they are photographed.

 

[442RCT]

Eastman, Aero, Real McCoy Japan, Real McCoy New Zealand , do they qualify as "overseas" sellers ?

There are many USA made repros which aren't stitch for stitch either, but never-the-less are decent wearing jackets and well regarded jackets, just not a copy of a WW2 contract jacket. As for these, I have lower expectations than many here, I don't expect a stitch for stitch copy, just a nice well made A-2. My all time favorite A-2 repro is a Sefton, which is a 'house' jacket made in England.

Not having held one of these Chinese made jackets, I too remain skeptical, but then again as many many will point out, they can make cheap junk, but have the capability of making well made products.

My primary concern from 'reading' the Taobo website (I can't read Chinese) is that these jackets may not be made by a single manufacturer, they may be made by several different makers, so quality may vary from one maker to another. But since I don't actually read Chinese, I may be and probably am totally wrong.

These jackets must be new to market, I tried to google a review of these jackets, but didn't find anything on the net. One of us at FL may be the first to rave :eusa_clap or deride these repros :rage: ...so who wants to be the repro man lol

 

[JoeNiblick]

More thoughts...

1) When we talk durability (as I've seen in another recent post about getting FQHH on an A2), what do we really mean? Clearly, a well-made jacket can last several decades... Which is way longer than I'll be around!

2) Question: Do the sleeves on this jacket seem short? I just looked at the measurement for a jacket in my size. It's listed as "23 inches from shoulder to cuff." Based on recent measurements of well-fitting jackets (I'm essentially a medium or size 40), at least for me, 26" is normal, and 25" would be acceptable. Do you think maybe they're measuring the leather sleeve and not the wool cuff?

3) Do you think the back is "cinched up" for the pictures? Part of the appeal of this jacket is the slim fit. Maybe I should just hold out for one of JanSolo's re-sells.

 

[Speedbird]

I think it could be good - it has potential

I think RCT is right, they have reverse engineered a jacket. I have visited China twice to develop international partnerships (different industry) and they for sure have the quality and capability to produce a faithful, high end product but as I say, perhaps with some help to make sure they don't build a Boeing that doesn't fly as described by RCT - a great anecdote!

My point about the hide being possibly being thin is this - in the text somewhere it says that they are using 1.6mm horse hide - but the micrometer pictures indicate a 'good' spec of 8 stitches per inch and the hide does look thick - this is what led me to think that something is being lost in translation. I think the description may be 'off' rather than the build. Who knows without seeing one in the flesh. Likewise, the stand collar. In the text it says it doesn't have one, but one of the pictures (on the website) seems to show it does have at least a representation of one. I wonder if this ties in RCT with your impression that maybe more than one manufacturer is in play?

Robustness - I was thinking about zips mainly, which they say they have faithfully copied in alloy. I'd rather they just put a heavy duty brass zipper in from a known reliable modern manufacturer i.e.YKK. At least then it won't break. At this stage and price point who needs/expects complete accuracy?

Pockets too tall? Dunno. What did a real Monarch look like? We will have to hunt for a photo of an original sample. They are nicely placed to the sides though which is a good feature for a more accurate period look. Sleeves too short - we don't where they are measuring from. It probably is from shoulder seam to beginning of cuff, from what the description says.

The main point is, this is a $350 dollar jacket not a $1000 jacket. Expectations shouldn't be too high but it might turn out to be a pleasant surprise. I am all for Good Wear and Aero - but I like even more an affordable accurate enough repro that can be used and abused! I would molly coddle a Good Wear too much I think. At least for the first ten years of it's life! ;-)

 

[feltfan]

Wow, no one else is concerned about the animal welfare issues
Creeping Past raises? I'm no PETA supporter, but I would certainly
consider that in my buy decision.

I have to say the leather looks pretty crummy in the photos.
I wouldn't want to order till I saw one or more of these jackets
worn by a human.

 

[saucerfiend]

I emailed the seller, and he told me that the sleeve measurement with the cuff is 26.5. There is no refund on this. Exchange only.

Brian

 

[H.Johnson]

I have bought from this seller. I was satisfied with what I bought and with his service.

 

[Feraud]

I looked into tanning in China a while ago. I'm not saying that all are as bad as the ones I've seen images and text on, but I'll not be buying Chinese leather goods until there's a way I can ascertain that there's some checkable element of animal welfare in the Chinese leather industry.

Absolutely!

Wow, no one else is concerned about the animal welfare issues
Creeping Past raises? I'm no PETA supporter, but I would certainly
consider that in my buy decision.

I think we should all consider such issues (human and animal welfafe) when purchasing goods. Whether we intend to or not we all support certain business practices with our dollars.

For fear of getting political I will now get off my soapbox.

 

[Creeping Past]

I have bought from this seller. I was satisfied with what I bought and with his service.

Me too, but only items made from fabric. His service is good.

 

[Kid Mac]

I'd be concerned about what chemicals were used in the tanning and finishing process given some Chinese manufacturers problems -- melamine added to pet foods to fake the contractual requirement for the amount of protein, Chinese drywall emitting sulfide fumes, cadmium in Chinese exported toys.

Not a good track record.

I'm an Aero owner, but if price were an issue, as it can be, I'll go for a Gibson & Barnes goat Air Force A-2 -- at US $338. (Not associated with G&B).

 

[Creeping Past]

I'm an Aero owner, but if price were an issue, as it can be, I'll go for a Gibson & Barnes goat Air Force A-2 -- at US $338. (Not associated with G&B).

Yes, there are reasonably priced alternatives for new purchases. And buying used can get also get you a leather coat at a good price, but it might take a little time.

 

[saucerfiend]

I got some information from the seller on these jackets. The pocket measurements are 7.5 high and 6.1 wide. It seems to be 1/2 inch higher than usual.Not sure if this is "Monarch" height. Leather is 1.8 thick on Havana and 1.6 thick on seal brown. The size 46 I'm inquiring about is nearly 4 pounds. As far as accuracy to a Monarch, I'm not an expert, but I know that the sleeve seam is supposed to be offset fro tne normal straight seam where connected to the body, and theirs is not. It's straight. The collar should have a slight in- curve and long point. I don't see this.

Brian