Letter from Stetson

[Pilgrim]

Could it be that they figure there's a fairly low ceiling to what most customers will pay for a "dress" hat? And that if they can sell junk at that price, why would they offer anything better?

In regard to the first question, that may be the case. However, since we sell undergraduate credit courses at $223 per credit, perhaps the ceiling isn't as low as some would think. But whadda I know? I'm an academic who buys on Ebay because of quality and low price.

In regard to the second question, the answer is: sell junk and you make profit but the company will go away. Junk doesn't sell in the long run. Sell quality (in a reasonable balance of quality and price) and your company will be competitive for the long run. So if the people running the company want to be around 10 or 20 years from now, they won't sell junk.

 

[tonyb]

Perhaps "junk" is too strong a word. Still, I'm none too impressed by the quality of ANY of the mass-produced hats I've encountered of late. If the competition (such as it is) produced a substantially better alternative to Stetson's stuff, at a comparable price, then Stetson might have a stronger incentive to offer something we'd like to see.
How low is the ceiling? Well, there was a time when I bought new Borsalinos for something like $250 a pop. Are they better than Stetsons, Biltmores and the other brands available through my local retailer? I think so, but even they are no great shakes. (But, to my eye, their styles are nicer.) And they cost roughly twice as much and I can't honestly say they're twice as good. When people asked how much one of those lids set me back, a typical response to my answer included raised eyebrows and a "whew." That indicated to me that most people think $250 is an awful lot of money to pay for a hat.
I'm kinda curious to know how large a share of Stetson et al's production is in dress hats, as opposed to the Western stuff. Could it be that the company sees more growth potential in cowboy hats than in dress lids? Just an anecdotal observation, but it seems that cowboy hats (particularly straws) are as plentiful around here as they've ever been in my lifetime. They're more common a sight than fedoras, and this ain't exactly the heart of ranch country. There are locales over on the other side of the mountains (which IS ranch country, part of it, anyway) where a guy might feel out of place without a cowboy hat.

 

[Fedora]

own several electric guitars, and used to keep up with the industry much more so than I do now - but Stetson strikes me as analogous to Gibson guitars, another great old american company that slid into disrepair.
In the 80's, and into the early 90's, their quality control was in the toilet. Offerings were limited, and the materials used were inferior in every way to a vintage Gibson.
However, a small, but vocal group of gear-heads began pushing the company to "make 'em like they used to". Long story short, now less than 10 years later it's possible to buy a brand new Les Paul that is identical in every way to the one you would've got in 1958. And the whole company has a good rep again.
So, do letters and online forums make a difference? Yup.

I found another part of the Gibson story interesting as well. The guy that bought the Gibson company in Kalamazoo Mich. only wanted the name. He left kilns full of tone wood, as well as the old tooling. He opens up a brand new factory in Nashville(an ex girlfriend worked there) Some of the management and many of the luthiers stayed behind in Kalamazoo, and pooled their funds and reopened the factory. Under the Heritage name. I have never seen a bad Heritage, or rather a LP clone from Heritage. Being a new guitar manufacturer, they concentrated on quality, and high quality parts. Plus, they are bargains, big bargains. Now, to bring this back to the topic. Someone needs to start making Stetsons again, like the old days, under a different name. They could offer the old Stetson classics, in good materials. Will it happen? Nope. Fedora

 

[Tony in Tarzana]

Here's a simple thing Stetson can do: Better sweatbands. My modern Stetson Chathams aren't bad hats, really, but the sweatbands are of some stiff material that feels like cardboard impregnated with some plasticky stuff. My new Akubra's sweatband feels so nice it's almost decadent.

 

[jamespowers]

Dear Tony,

Someone once researched what you were talking about. A satisfied customer will tell 5 people, a dissatisfied customer will tell 22...


Lorne

I tell 2200.

Regards,

J

 

[Kaleponi Craig]

Someone needs to start making Stetsons again, like the old days, under a different name. They could offer the old Stetson classics, in good materials. Will it happen? Nope. Fedora

Well, Fedora, we have you and Art...KC

 

[GentlemanFarmer]

Stetson apparel

Found it. Under a licensing agreement with Stetson, Karman, Inc. is launching a line of apparel and footwear. Karmen, Inc. was founded by Sam Mandelbaum in 1948. Karman, doing business as Roper Apparel and Footwear, branched out into western apparel in the 1980s. They are not involved in headwear.

 

[epic610]

(tongue in cheek suggestion...)

perhaps we could strike a deal with stetson to all buy and wear their god-awful cologne if they would invest the profits into the hat division. the only downside to getting better quality hats would be a bunch of people walking around smelling like the ganges river.

borsalino also makes a fragrance; perhaps we could make same deal with them.

 

[jamespowers]

perhaps we could strike a deal with stetson to all buy and wear their god-awful cologne if they would invest the profits into the hat division. the only downside to getting better quality hats would be a bunch of people walking around smelling like the ganges river.

borsalino also makes a fragrance; perhaps we could make same deal with them.

Stetson the cologne? I suppose I could use it to keep away the mosquitoes in summer. I think it works on just about everything else as well.
I suppose it is cheaper than Round Up by the gallon too.

Regards,

J

 

[czack]

Which brings me to this question.

Are you sure we want people talking about us this way? "Nice guy, great hat, smells bad."

 

[Aaron Hats]

Someone needs to start making Stetsons again, like the old days, under a different name. They could offer the old Stetson classics, in good materials.

Actually, I started looking into doing this exact thing. The biggest expense is the blocks. One manufacturer I spoke with quoted about $600 per style per size. So to get blocks for a Stratoliner in sizes 6 7/8 through 7 3/4 would cost $4800.

So if I get 32 people to pay up front for a Stratoliner copy at $150 each I'd be happy to continue with this project.

Back to the drawing board.

 

[thefedorastore]

Actually, I started looking into doing this exact thing. The biggest expense is the blocks. One manufacturer I spoke with quoted about $600 per style per size. So to get blocks for a Stratoliner in sizes 6 7/8 through 7 3/4 would cost $4800.

So if I get 32 people to pay up front for a Stratoliner copy at $150 each I'd be happy to continue with this project.

Back to the drawing board.

This block is $150 brand new for each block, which is a tad better than $600. This is the style I use when restoring old hats for sale. I only offer this shape blocked, the rest being hand shaped or open crown. Hey, but this is a NICE block for the money. In fact, if this shape is fancied, I think every Fedoranatic should have one.

Fred does lovely work and has hat blocks, flanges and many of the other items you will need. It's all new. Visit his website and keep the blockmakers in business too!

 

[thefedorastore]

... My new Akubra's sweatband feels so nice it's almost decadent.

Whoa! What a visual lol I've heard of eating your hat, but.....

 

[Marc Chevalier]

Stetson used to put their name on a brand of men's shoes. From the 1900s until the early '70s. Great quality shoes, by the way.

.

 

[Fedora]

Well, Fedora, we have you and Art...KC

Oh yeah, well, but we are just small hatters that do custom hats. I am mainly a Raiders fedora hatter and that is a market that keeps me busy. Hard to believe, and I have been surprised by the demand. I was really thinking along the lines of a small hat factory that could produce classic hats for under 150 bucks retail. High quality hats that would not have to be like a vintage Canvanagh in quality, but more along the lines of what the Deluxe and Royal Deluxe Stetsons. Decent hats at a reasonable price. When you think about the actual cost of materials involved, I do not see how a hat like this could not be sold for that price. But, I am no expert on the economics of such an enterprise. It just seems if material cost in each hat of this sort was, say, lets figure high, lets say 20 dollars, it is wholesaled at 100 bucks. The retailer marks em up to 150. Not a bad profit for the retailer, who just has to hang it on a hook. Of course, the problem may be there just isn't enough market out there for this to happen. I am out of my league here. Fedora

 

[besdor]

Stetson Quality

I had a long conversation today with the president of Stetson after telling him of my problems with the company . After a half hour on the phone I have to admit he was genuinely conserned about the problems and repuation of their dress hats . He admitted that there were some problems with the transition of moving everything to one factory that was primarily a western factory . He is standing behind his goal of once again making the best dress hats on the market as Stetson did years ago . Whether or not this will happen I don't know . But he did go over some new types of fur that the factory will be using so we will have to wait and see.
I think that even if the factory does make better hats again , the amount of people that will care will be very small. As mentioned on the lounge many times in the past, most people today care about price points and tend to hesitate when the price reaches a certain point . The factory will not go the route of making cheaper hats ot using Chinese bodies so I think that the loyal customers will be the ones who will really determine the future of the hat business.


Steven
www.bencrafthats.com

 

[Tony in Tarzana]

Whoa! What a visual lol I've heard of eating your hat, but.....

Could be worse... could be jellyfish.

Seriously, that Akubra sweat feels sooo good. Like having Kate Beckinsale stroke your forehead while she's dressed as Ava Gardner.

 

[tonyb]

I think that even if the factory does make better hats again , the amount of people that will care will be very small. As mentioned on the lounge many times in the past, most people today care about price points and tend to hesitate when the price reaches a certain point . Steven
www.bencrafthats.com

I think you're right about that, besdor. Higher-quality dress hats from the large-scale manufacturers won't prompt the masses to buy them.
Fedora Steve's input prompts this question: Seeing how the cost of materials isn't all that dear (especially for the large manufacturers who, I'd imagine, enjoy certain economies of scale), is it reasonable to suggest that a better hat could be mass produced and still be priced at a level that won't scare away the customer?
Next time you talk with the Stetson brass, could you ask them to take a look at the basic styles they made way back when, and which our smaller makers (God bless 'em) still produce today? And then suggest they give it a try?
A better-made Stetson isn't going to make fedora wearers of "average" guys, seeing how they wouldn't appreciate the difference anyway, but a sharper-looking lid might entice at least a few of them.

 

[Benny Holiday]

Seriously, that Akubra sweat feels sooo good. Like having Kate Beckinsale stroke your forehead while she's dressed as Ava Gardner.

I've always thought very highly of my Akubras Tony, but that image is a whole new category of appreciation! lol

fftopic: Boy that is one good daydream, though . . .

 

[Aaron Hats]

This block is $150 brand new for each block, which is a tad better than $600.

Just like all hats are not the same not all blocks are the same. That $600 price tag is for a block to be used on production machinery, not fluffing up a couple hats.

I think that even if the factory does make better hats again , the amount of people that will care will be very small. As mentioned on the lounge many times in the past, most people today care about price points and tend to hesitate when the price reaches a certain point .

You're right as usual Steven. Another problem the hat manufacturers see is that there aren't many true hat stores anymore. A lot of the sales of dress hats are to mens stores or department stores where they don't want to stock eight sizes. They'd rather have small, medium, large or xl.