TartuWolf
Call Me a Cab
- Messages
- 2,558
- Location
- Tartu, Estonia
In general I'd say don't buy a high end / expensive leather jacket from a non-leather jacket company unless you know who actually makes the jackets (like in the case if Iron Heart).
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Leather defect Double Helix Deviant
- Thread starter fabiofades
- Start date
Featured products
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John Lofgren Monkey Boots Shinki Horsebuttt - $1,136 The classic monkey boot silhouette in an incredibly rich Shinki russet horse leather. -
Grant Stone Diesel Boot Dark Olive Chromexcel - $395 Goodyear welted, Horween Chromexcel, classic good looks. -
Schott 568 Vandals Jacket - $1,250 The classic Perfecto motorcycle jacket, in a very special limited-edition Schott double rider style.
Bender
A-List Customer
- Messages
- 457
A few things worth unpacking regarding Shinki Shell cordovan...
No true shell cordovan is ever going to be a cheap, low-end product.
That tier of the market just doesn't economically support how true shell cordovan -any true shell cordovan- must be made.
It's an incredibly labor-intensive, time-consuming fully veg-tan process that must be done with minimal automation by people who know what they are doing. A tannery must buy a very high quality horsebutt, get the hair off, and then tan it for months before they can even begin the delicate process of shaving down to the muscle membrane without damaging it. Then the membrane (now the "shell") must be fine shaved for uniformity and then re-tanned for months. Then comes the hot-stuffing, followed by the 90 day "rest" before it's finally ready for dyeing and the heavy glass cylinder jack-glazing. There's simply no way around those expenses. Shinki is one of the handful of true shell cordovan producers.
There are some outfits who produce something that is technically legal to call shell cordovan, but nobody here would recognize as such- basically white label tanneries using the lowest-grade horsebutts they can find, quick combo-tans, clumsy shaving... all of which results in something that sort of resembles shell cordovan but lacks most of it's qualities. And there are even some fly-by-night tanneries that use avancorpo (front part of the horse skin), pasted down and flattened onto to a glass sheet that is baked, the resulting material coated with plastic, and called "shell cordovan".
But true shell cordovan, like Horween, Shinki and Conceria Maryam produce, is just too expensive to make to ever occupy a cheap, low-end portion of the leather market. To spend the money necessary to make true shell cordovan and then sell it as a budget line wouldn't make sense.
Shinki and the "cheap Spanish shoes" situation:
This was a basic misunderstanding between the use-case Shinki was producing their shell cordovan for at the time, and what those cheap Spanish shoemakers needed.
Long story short, Shinki was not producing a shell cordovan suitable for shoe lasting, or really anything out of the scope of traditional Japanese leather goods... They simply hadn't considered a Spanish shoemaker's needs- cheap or not. At the time, they were producing two types of shell- one with a water-soluble casein (milk and egg-white derived) glaze solution, and one with an acrylic (plastic) solution.
The casein product was for goods that needed to flex a bit and could be kept safe from water. Wallets and the like. This shell was usually their top-tier product that had been hand-dyed. If a misguided European shoemaker bought this shell, it could be lasted -very carefully and with great pain to protect the finished top from water exposure- but the resulting shoe, when it creased while walking in the rain, could introduce water to the finish, and you'd get bubbles and a milky mess.
The acrylic shell they were producing was for leather goods that used flatter plains of construction, such as luxury briefcases, and as somebody earlier mentioned, "children's backpacks" (more on those later). That shell was water resistant, but when it was put over a shoemaker's last and hammered, the acrylic glaze cracked and crazed. Hence it was unsuitable to make even "cheap" shoes.
When it was brought to Shinki's attention that global shoe and leather makers wished to use their shell cordovan, they introduced a third shell cordovan line called oil (or shoe) shell, specifically to meet those needs. It's essentially the Horween solution... overstuff during the hotstuffing stage, skip the glaze compound entirely, and stick it under the heavy cylinder glazing-jack. This is the majority of Shinki shell cordovan sold today outside of Japan, and it is a superb and extremely high-end shell cordovan for shoes and other leather goods.
Shinki and the "cheap backpack leather" myth:
Yes, Shinki shell cordovan is sometimes used for school backpacks in Japan called randoseru. But it's important to note, a randoseru is not just a backpack, it's a cultural institution. A randoseru is the traditional school bag a kid will use for their entire 6-year elementary school career, and one of the most important and emotionally amplified childhood purchases in Japan. A child being presented a randoseru is a rite of passage, complete with photos and a family gathering. There is an entire industry built around randoseru, and even a cultural phenomenon known as rankatsu, or the act of researching and selecting just the right randoseru for your child or grandchild.
Because a randoseru is a special gift, and different families have different budgets, you're obviously going to see some variance in cost and materials. From nylon to nicer fabrics to leather to shell cordovan. The shell cordovan models occupy the absolute top, top tier, and make for a very pricy randoseru. Like $1500-$3000 USD. For a 6 year old's school bag. A very nice gift from some very well-off grandparents. So the idea that Shinki shell cordovan is used for children's backpacks in Japan is technically correct, but the context is kind of key here.
Okay, getting off my lecture soapbox now...
There are guys who love Shinki shell. There are guys who favor Horween. There are even guys who find the Conceria Maryam product. Personally, I'm a Horween guy... but I have some great Shinki shell pieces as well. Any of these three makers do an excellent high-end product.
No true shell cordovan is ever going to be a cheap, low-end product.
That tier of the market just doesn't economically support how true shell cordovan -any true shell cordovan- must be made.
It's an incredibly labor-intensive, time-consuming fully veg-tan process that must be done with minimal automation by people who know what they are doing. A tannery must buy a very high quality horsebutt, get the hair off, and then tan it for months before they can even begin the delicate process of shaving down to the muscle membrane without damaging it. Then the membrane (now the "shell") must be fine shaved for uniformity and then re-tanned for months. Then comes the hot-stuffing, followed by the 90 day "rest" before it's finally ready for dyeing and the heavy glass cylinder jack-glazing. There's simply no way around those expenses. Shinki is one of the handful of true shell cordovan producers.
There are some outfits who produce something that is technically legal to call shell cordovan, but nobody here would recognize as such- basically white label tanneries using the lowest-grade horsebutts they can find, quick combo-tans, clumsy shaving... all of which results in something that sort of resembles shell cordovan but lacks most of it's qualities. And there are even some fly-by-night tanneries that use avancorpo (front part of the horse skin), pasted down and flattened onto to a glass sheet that is baked, the resulting material coated with plastic, and called "shell cordovan".
But true shell cordovan, like Horween, Shinki and Conceria Maryam produce, is just too expensive to make to ever occupy a cheap, low-end portion of the leather market. To spend the money necessary to make true shell cordovan and then sell it as a budget line wouldn't make sense.
Shinki and the "cheap Spanish shoes" situation:
This was a basic misunderstanding between the use-case Shinki was producing their shell cordovan for at the time, and what those cheap Spanish shoemakers needed.
Long story short, Shinki was not producing a shell cordovan suitable for shoe lasting, or really anything out of the scope of traditional Japanese leather goods... They simply hadn't considered a Spanish shoemaker's needs- cheap or not. At the time, they were producing two types of shell- one with a water-soluble casein (milk and egg-white derived) glaze solution, and one with an acrylic (plastic) solution.
The casein product was for goods that needed to flex a bit and could be kept safe from water. Wallets and the like. This shell was usually their top-tier product that had been hand-dyed. If a misguided European shoemaker bought this shell, it could be lasted -very carefully and with great pain to protect the finished top from water exposure- but the resulting shoe, when it creased while walking in the rain, could introduce water to the finish, and you'd get bubbles and a milky mess.
The acrylic shell they were producing was for leather goods that used flatter plains of construction, such as luxury briefcases, and as somebody earlier mentioned, "children's backpacks" (more on those later). That shell was water resistant, but when it was put over a shoemaker's last and hammered, the acrylic glaze cracked and crazed. Hence it was unsuitable to make even "cheap" shoes.
When it was brought to Shinki's attention that global shoe and leather makers wished to use their shell cordovan, they introduced a third shell cordovan line called oil (or shoe) shell, specifically to meet those needs. It's essentially the Horween solution... overstuff during the hotstuffing stage, skip the glaze compound entirely, and stick it under the heavy cylinder glazing-jack. This is the majority of Shinki shell cordovan sold today outside of Japan, and it is a superb and extremely high-end shell cordovan for shoes and other leather goods.
Shinki and the "cheap backpack leather" myth:
Yes, Shinki shell cordovan is sometimes used for school backpacks in Japan called randoseru. But it's important to note, a randoseru is not just a backpack, it's a cultural institution. A randoseru is the traditional school bag a kid will use for their entire 6-year elementary school career, and one of the most important and emotionally amplified childhood purchases in Japan. A child being presented a randoseru is a rite of passage, complete with photos and a family gathering. There is an entire industry built around randoseru, and even a cultural phenomenon known as rankatsu, or the act of researching and selecting just the right randoseru for your child or grandchild.
Because a randoseru is a special gift, and different families have different budgets, you're obviously going to see some variance in cost and materials. From nylon to nicer fabrics to leather to shell cordovan. The shell cordovan models occupy the absolute top, top tier, and make for a very pricy randoseru. Like $1500-$3000 USD. For a 6 year old's school bag. A very nice gift from some very well-off grandparents. So the idea that Shinki shell cordovan is used for children's backpacks in Japan is technically correct, but the context is kind of key here.
Okay, getting off my lecture soapbox now...
There are guys who love Shinki shell. There are guys who favor Horween. There are even guys who find the Conceria Maryam product. Personally, I'm a Horween guy... but I have some great Shinki shell pieces as well. Any of these three makers do an excellent high-end product.
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