L. L. Bean A-2 history time line?

[Levallois]

Got a new jacket. Can't believe these are considered a "cheap" repro. I bought it cheap but there's nothing cheap about it. Anyway, did a search but couldn't find anything about how to date these jackets by physical characteristics. Before anyone suggests it, the tag in the right pocket has worn off so I don't know when it was made. I think it's an old one. Got me thinking about characteristics of these jackets through time. This my second LL Bean A2 and has the one piece back, actual jacket size 44 and the tag has 100 percent leather and made in USA but nothing about imported leather. My other Bean A2 has the 3 piece back, size 44, made in USA out of imported leather, dated 1991 on the pocket tag. Did a search of ebay and this is how I see them relatively from older to younger:

One piece back, 100 percent leather, made in USA, actual jacket size

One piece back, 100 percent out of imported leather, made in USA, actual jacket size

Read somewhere there is supposed to be a two piece back but I couldn't find one to verify

3 piece back, 100 percent out of imported leather, made in USA,actual jacket size

3 piece back, 100 percent out of imported leather, made in USA,sm, med, L, XL sizes

3 piece back made in turkey

If someone else already has Figured this out then please let me know. Any comment, opinions, knowledge would be appreciated. Yeah, I know I need to get a life. Thanks!

L.

 

[Ernest P Shackleton]

I'm surprised LL Bean doesn't have a historian on staff and that they do not have a library of sorts online. Maybe they have one in Maine? I run into questions about LL Bean history often enough that I'd be a regular patron of such a service.

 

[RailRoad]

I've gotten 2 off ebay within the last month. A size 42 with Thinsulate and a 44 without. Both cost less than a hundred dollars including shipping. In my opinion the early versions in numbered sizes, before the move to an offshore maker, are some of the best jackets out there. I've also got an A2 from The Cockpit and their version of the B3. The Cockpit A2 can't hold a candle to the LL Bean and the Cockpit B3 doesn't even come close in comparison to Cabelas B3, which I also have. This is just my opinion mind you. For information there's a medium tall, 3 piece back with a May 1997 date on ebay but no picture of the neck tag to tell where it was made.

 

[thor]

I have an old LL Bean A-2 with one-piece back in a size 44 Long which fits me perfectly and gets worn as often as any of my more expensive custom leather jackets. Great details, very good construction, grainy goatskin leather, an overall fantastic bargain off the 'Bay (only cost me $70). I've added a cool leather Flying Tigers blood chit to the back (ala "Jake Cutter").
You can't go wrong with these jackets for such a low second-hand price!

 

[Levallois]

I agree they are under appreciated jackets. I also noticed the zippers - what I think is the older one has a Scovill zipper and the 1991 has a Talon zipper. Never heard of Scovill before. What I think are the younger jackets on ebay look like they have YKK zippers. Don't know if any of these are datable? Thanks again.

 

[armscye]

I have two, which represent phases 3 and 4 of your timeline.

My earlier jacket is a 46 tall, which could probably handle Wilt Chamberlain. I've had it "Indyized" by removing the knits, which brings the length under control for my 6'3" frame. It is US marked, has a Talon #10, great snaps, large front pockets, a three-piece back, and the heaviest goatskin I've ever encountered. Some think it might be an Eighties Golden Bear.

My later jacket is a 1995 US made XL, lighter but respectable goatskin, three-piece back, poorer snaps, #5 YKK zipper, and a short, squarish collar. It's a respectable jacket, but no Cockpit or G&B competitor,

 

[RailRoad]

My size 44 non insulated says Flying Tigers Jacket on the label and has a Scovill zipper. The 42 only says LL Bean Freeport Maine on the label and has the YKK zip.

 

[Levallois]

I appreciate the replies! Railroad, what about the backs -1 or 3 piece, and the made in USA and imported leather info on your jackets? Forgot about the Flying Tigers Bean jackets - where do they fit in, I wonder?

 

[RailRoad]

Both of mine are the 1 piece back, USA made of imported goatskin and I might be wrong but from what I've seen on ebay I'm of the opinion that the Flying Tigers were the earliest, but that's just a wild guess.

 

[Levallois]

Been looking at ebay and the Flying Tigers can have the 3-piece back and imported goatskin. I wonder if this was another line of leather coats sold side-by-side with the regular A-2s? The problem is that they look pretty similar to me. Also, the recent Turkish made coats can have a 1 piece back! don't know where they would fit.

 

[armscye]

I wouldn't be too biased against imported goatskin as a marker of poor quality. My brother in law-- an honest to goodness former A-10 pilot-- informs me that his older Bosnia-campaign Cooper A-2 used a nice imported goatskin, while the latest A-2s are required by some obscure procurement rule to use US-sourced goatskin, and are universally called "pleather jackets" by today's USAF pilots.

 

[RailRoad]

The only negatives I've heard,and I can't remember what forum it was, concerned the newer Turkish made jackets with the black inner linings and how they would come apart and separate. I've seen some on ebay and while the outside looks decent the lining looks as if it's been thru a shredder.

 

[Vespizzare]

I'm surprised LL Bean doesn't have a historian on staff and that they do not have a library of sorts online. Maybe they have one in Maine? I run into questions about LL Bean history often enough that I'd be a regular patron of such a service.

Why employ someone to document how their quality has really gone way down. From A2's that were a certain size to Small, Medium, and Large. And those sizes are very generous so the fit is very much hit or miss.

 

[RailRoad]

I just ran across an item on Golden Bear Sportswears blog dated 12/18/12 that shows an add for all 3 of LL Bean's jackets. It's titled Golden Bear for LL Bean Circa 1978.

 

[thor]

This Golden Bear advertising page from the LL Bean catalog shows jackets in the S-M-L-XL sizes; I don't think it's 1978 (as claimed "circa 1978") since the older jackets were numerically sized (42, 44, 46, etc). Unless of course they changed to the lettered, generic sizes from 1978 onwards?

 

[RailRoad]

I got the impression the add is newer than 78 also, because of the prices. That would've been a pretty penny back in 78. To me at least.

 

[thor]

I agree RailRoad; my guess is that the ad is from the 1990-2000 era. BTW, it's funny but I paid $70 for my used LL Bean leather jacket (in mint condition from the 'Bay) and $125 for the Flying Tigers leather blood chit from Gibson and Barnes (they've since raised the price to $148; US Wings sells the same blood chit for $250!!!). Leather prices are really jumping, making the second-hand (yet high quality) LL Bean jackets even more of a bargain.

 

[RailRoad]

I agree RailRoad; my guess is that the ad is from the 1990-2000 era. BTW, it's funny but I paid $70 for my used LL Bean leather jacket (in mint condition from the 'Bay) and $125 for the Flying Tigers leather blood chit from Gibson and Barnes (they've since raised the price to $148; US Wings sells the same blood chit for $250!!!). Leather prices are really jumping, making the second-hand (yet high quality) LL Bean jackets even more of a bargain.

You're right about that.

 

[Levallois]

The L.L. Bean jackets seem to be being priced higher on ebay recently. I was lucky to get mine for $63. There are some that are starting in the $100-200 range and more. I wonder how much longer these jackets will be the bargain they are today as people realize the quality of the earlier ones at least?

 

[RailRoad]

The L.L. Bean jackets seem to be being priced higher on ebay recently. I was lucky to get mine for $63. There are some that are starting in the $100-200 range and more. I wonder how much longer these jackets will be the bargain they are today as people realize the quality of the earlier ones at least?

I was wondering that myself last night because I'd like to find a 44 with Thinsulate since my 42 is a little tight.