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Going Dutch is perfectly acceptable and we should thank the Dutch for inventing it.
The idea of the guy paying as being "sexist" would honestly never occur to me. If the guy asked me out, then it's his treat, period. If anybody invites me somewhere, I understand it as being their treat, unless it's specifically stated that we're going dutch. If I invite somebody somewhere, then I pay. Simple, and no need for Ideology.
While I think that a knowledge of the history of dating and the man paying is important, I think that most young women were raised that the man shouldn't have to pay for everything, just like the woman shouldn't have to do all the housework. If you are raised to think this way, then a man insisting and not having his date ever pay, would likely be thought of as odd.
I see you don't know any radical feminists.
I felt humiliated - like I had done something inappropriate, and my husband was also belittled. THAT is how the man paying can be sexist.
And I've tried very hard to avoid knowing them, having read enough of their stuff to reject their worldview. If there's any one thing the world needs less of, it's dour, humorless identity-politics ideologues. If it makes the guy happy to pay for lunch, I just don't see the harm in letting him do it.
There are so many ways he could have put that better, if he had to say something. Couldn't he have said, "You are our guest. Please let me treat for this round."?
One of my girl friends dated a man (shortly) who insisted that if she paid for something that she give him the money beforehand. As in, before they went into the restaurant he would ask her for the money, so he could hand it to the server and have the appearance of being the "man" and doing the "manly things he was supposed to do." So he had no problem with her spending her hard earned dollar, he just had a big problem with her actually paying for the check. He also evidentally had other issues, which substantiated that this behavior was not just embarrassment. (He also wasn't good at giving her back her change, either.)
Well, my comment was meant a little tongue in cheek. I just don't see the harm in letting the gal pay for lunch either.
There are so many ways he could have put that better, if he had to say something. Couldn't he have said, "You are our guest. Please let me treat for this round."?
He could have, but having known him for more than 10 years now, I think he enjoyed bullying both Paul & me.
Ladies, I can see now that the only appropriated response is to simply throw a drink in the man's face and storm out if he tries to pay for you. It's the only way to deal with such blatant sexism. :
Or you can send him some type of rules packet like a pre-dating agreement so the guys can try to get it right. I don't know if it will add to the spontineity of dating but at least they won't try any inappropriate paying.:eeek
I've noticed that on a second date, for which the lady has said she'd like to pay (having enjoyed our first meal I paid for), if you do let her pay there will be people who comment "what kind of gentleman are you letting the lady pay for you?"
It seems when I comes to ladies your damned if you do, damned if you don't.
Here's another example:
What do you call a lady when not using her name? When in a work situation if a man does something for which you want to congratulate him, you say "good man". What do you say to a lady? What about bar staff? You can call a man mate, pal, buddy, friend, young man, sir... etc. What's can you call a lady? Miss? Not if she's married. Ma'am? Depends on her age. And it's really hard when some ladies hate the word lady, some hate woman and most think girl is patronizing. The effort we have to go to in order to determine which words will offend which people is another reason chivalry is dying (imho).
When extending an invitation to dine or travel (man or woman, business or social) I always include the words My Guest My Treat or On Me. We may eventually agree to other arrangements but I was raised to expect to pay when doing the inviting.
I see you don't know any radical feminists.
While I think that a knowledge of the history of dating and the man paying is important, I think that most young women were raised that the man shouldn't have to pay for everything, just like the woman shouldn't have to do all the housework. If you are raised to think this way, then a man insisting and not having his date ever pay, would likely be thought of as odd.
I do think it is a thing of respect that if someone says, "I would like to pay for this" and the other person says "I would like to pay" that some sort of arrangement is made so that both individuals can be respected. This could be dutch, it could be alternating, it could be anything, as long as both people have their wishes respected to the greatest degree possible.
I've noticed that on a second date, for which the lady has said she'd like to pay (having enjoyed our first meal I paid for), if you do let her pay there will be people who comment "what kind of gentleman are you letting the lady pay for you?"
Here's another example:
What do you call a lady when not using her name? When in a work situation if a man does something for which you want to congratulate him, you say "good man". What do you say to a lady? What about bar staff? You can call a man mate, pal, buddy, friend, young man, sir... etc. What's can you call a lady? Miss? Not if she's married. Ma'am? Depends on her age. And it's really hard when some ladies hate the word lady, some hate woman and most think girl is patronizing. The effort we have to go to in order to determine which words will offend which people is another reason chivalry is dying (imho).