Is a leather jacket & shorts a fashion faux pas?

[Will Zach]

Nah

 

[Monitor]

That’s a lot to digest, but I do feel that we (men) are losing identity and individuality these days.

I agree. Identity, however, is formed through choices and making a choice requires options which are no longer available to men because clothes and attitude toward clothes had degraded to the point of utter oblivion and infantilization.

Hell, take us here, for instance. What are we talking about here, on this forum? Jeans. Ignoring sweatpants, jeans are the most basic, primitive style of trousers available and these days, person wearing a "better" looking jeans is considered to have dressed-up!

Then there's the whole notion of how "real" men should only care about being comfortable & only dress up for the occasion. This implies that only on a special occasion should a man not be dressed like shit which in turn implies that wearing nice clothes on a daily basis is inappropriate.

And what do we get? Hordes of men shuffling around wearing the same thing their parents bought for them when they were children, except in a larger size. Oh, and sometimes with a big, fat logo that implies that the wearer has a disposable income of their own.

Women have it worse but that's another topic altogether.

Join us. Unleash the hairy gams. There’s a whole world of shorts to explore.

But will there still be a world to return to, though?

It’s the same in music, television, film, literature, etc. Since the new millennium, we have seen an explosion of possibilities. Hell, men can wear women’s clothes, makeup, etc. but we can also wear jeans and a white t and a leather jacket. And I don’t mean just to the disco - we can literally wear dresses to the office, to dinner with the boss, etc. or we can wear jeans and a white t with our tats hanging out… or a vintage suit or a designer suit or shorts and a bow tie or whatever the hell.

You're correct that media has been bombarding us with revelations how men can wear anything they desire, now more than ever although why is that? What has changed?
Fashion industry has been playing ping-pong with gender roles for a long time now. That's nothing new. What has changed, however, is the ever growing availability of clothes in general and isn't it curious, convenient even, how before it could be mass produced to such an extent, these "couture pieces" belonged only on a runway & what little exposure they had received has been ridiculed but now that companies like Zara simplified and devolved their third-world country slave-shop production to such an extent that with near-zero cost, they can pump it out in infinite quantities, suddenly we are all free & encouraged to dress how we want.

Sure, we can wear whatever we want... As long as we don't want to wear quality clothes. That's a big no. Huge no!

Take T-shirts. What's the most you would pay for a T-shirt?

I used to think how paying $150 for a Real McCoy T-shirt is insane but... Isn't it crazier that average price for a T-shirt is $15? $15!!!
That's sickening. I do not want to wear a T-shirt that costs $15. The process of making a single T-shirt expands over several countries, sometimes continents and requires several different types of manual labor by up to ten people.

Do you know that Zara sales assistant in Europe has a higher monthly income than all of the ten people involved in the physical production of said T-shirt, combined?

Either way, I don't like neither shorts nor T-shirts. Either remove the sleeves altogether or leave them be.

 

[Randomuser]

I used to be with ‘it’, but then they changed what ‘it’ was. Now what I’m with isn’t ‘it’ anymore and what’s ‘it’ seems weird and scary. It’ll happen to you!

 

[Will Zach]

^^

They change "it" every year or so.

 

[hardlyworkingman]

I agree. Identity, however, is formed through choices and making a choice requires options which are no longer available to men because clothes and attitude toward clothes had degraded to the point of utter oblivion and infantilization.

Hell, take us here, for instance. What are we talking about here, on this forum? Jeans. Ignoring sweatpants, jeans are the most basic, primitive style of trousers available and these days, person wearing a "better" looking jeans is considered to have dressed-up!

Then there's the whole notion of how "real" men should only care about being comfortable & only dress up for the occasion. This implies that only on a special occasion should a man not be dressed like shit which in turn implies that wearing nice clothes on a daily basis is inappropriate.

And what do we get? Hordes of men shuffling around wearing the same thing their parents bought for them when they were children, except in a larger size. Oh, and sometimes with a big, fat logo that implies that the wearer has a disposable income of their own.

Women have it worse but that's another topic altogether.

.......................

Agree. Covid period kinda accelerated this even faster.

I was at an executive meeting few weeks ago with C suite.
CEO rolls into meeting with a tshirt and an unbuttoned denim shirt, denim jeans and sneakers
CFO - short sleeve shirt, some pants and sneakers
VP - Short sleeve shirt, denim jeans and leather loafers.
pretty much every one in that meeting didn't really care.

meanwhile i wore a nice Dress Shirt, Pants, black belt, alden shoes. nothing fancy, just business casual. even that i felt out of place. i used to wear a blazer in the past to be slightly formal, got rid of that one as I felt it is a bit distracting.

It doesn't take a lot of effort to dress in business casual or formal, and doesn't have to be uncomfortable. Beats me, why people don't care about themselves anymore.

 

[The Lost Cowboy]

I agree. Identity, however, is formed through choices and making a choice requires options which are no longer available to men because clothes and attitude toward clothes had degraded to the point of utter oblivion and infantilization.

Hell, take us here, for instance. What are we talking about here, on this forum? Jeans. Ignoring sweatpants, jeans are the most basic, primitive style of trousers available and these days, person wearing a "better" looking jeans is considered to have dressed-up!

Then there's the whole notion of how "real" men should only care about being comfortable & only dress up for the occasion. This implies that only on a special occasion should a man not be dressed like shit which in turn implies that wearing nice clothes on a daily basis is inappropriate.

And what do we get? Hordes of men shuffling around wearing the same thing their parents bought for them when they were children, except in a larger size. Oh, and sometimes with a big, fat logo that implies that the wearer has a disposable income of their own.

Women have it worse but that's another topic altogether.



But will there still be a world to return to, though?



You're correct that media has been bombarding us with revelations how men can wear anything they desire, now more than ever although why is that? What has changed?
Fashion industry has been playing ping-pong with gender roles for a long time now. That's nothing new. What has changed, however, is the ever growing availability of clothes in general and isn't it curious, convenient even, how before it could be mass produced to such an extent, these "couture pieces" belonged only on a runway & what little exposure they had received has been ridiculed but now that companies like Zara simplified and devolved their third-world country slave-shop production to such an extent that with near-zero cost, they can pump it out in infinite quantities, suddenly we are all free & encouraged to dress how we want.

Sure, we can wear whatever we want... As long as we don't want to wear quality clothes. That's a big no. Huge no!

Take T-shirts. What's the most you would pay for a T-shirt?

I used to think how paying $150 for a Real McCoy T-shirt is insane but... Isn't it crazier that average price for a T-shirt is $15? $15!!!
That's sickening. I do not want to wear a T-shirt that costs $15. The process of making a single T-shirt expands over several countries, sometimes continents and requires several different types of manual labor by up to ten people.

Do you know that Zara sales assistant in Europe has a higher monthly income than all of the ten people involved in the physical production of said T-shirt, combined?

Either way, I don't like neither shorts nor T-shirts. Either remove the sleeves altogether or leave them be.

After reading this, I’m honestly not sure what your position is. You seem to just be against things (shorts, t-shirts, Zara…) but I can’t tell what you are for. Your responses to this thread read like a list of grievances, but I don’t get why you feel aggrieved.

Fashion today is WAY more democratic than it ever was before and people are far freer to explore their own sense of style than they ever were before. And far more people - especially young people - are doing just that than ever before.

The fact that society is free enough today to see a grown man wearing running shorts, a leather jacket and neon sneakers simply because that’s what he wants to wear… I personally think that’s pretty damn free.

Is that much freedom a good thing? I don’t know. But if we value the freedom of self-expression, then this is certainly the moment in all of known history when it is at its greatest extent.

 

[Will Zach]

Agree. Covid period kinda accelerated this even faster.

I was at an executive meeting few weeks ago with C suite.
CEO rolls into meeting with a tshirt and an unbuttoned denim shirt, denim jeans and sneakers
CFO - short sleeve shirt, some pants and sneakers
VP - Short sleeve shirt, denim jeans and leather loafers.
pretty much every one in that meeting didn't really care.

meanwhile i wore a nice Dress Shirt, Pants, black belt, alden shoes. nothing fancy, just business casual. even that i felt out of place. i used to wear a blazer in the past to be slightly formal, got rid of that one as I felt it is a bit distracting.

It doesn't take a lot of effort to dress in business casual or formal, and doesn't have to be uncomfortable. Beats me, why people don't care about themselves anymore.

Techies like Steve Jobs wore a t-shirt/denim uniform like forever. Other C-suite types of course not, until recently.

 

[Bennarion]

By the way, shorts are great when you wear a leather jacket at home)))

 

[MrProper]

CEO rolls into meeting with a tshirt and an unbuttoned denim shirt, denim jeans and sneakers
CFO - short sleeve shirt, some pants and sneakers
VP - Short sleeve shirt, denim jeans and leather loafers.
pretty much every one in that meeting didn't really care.

Who told you they don't care? Maybe they do anyway?
I'm also in enough meetings and wear exactly what I wear in my photos. It may look like I don't care, but I actually think carefully about what I do and don't want to wear.
Fortunately, I can wear what I want and it's accepted, even if others are there in blazers.

 

[hardlyworkingman]

Who told you they don't care? Maybe they do anyway?
I'm also in enough meetings and wear exactly what I wear in my photos. It may look like I don't care, but I actually think carefully about what I do and don't want to wear.
Fortunately, I can wear what I want and it's accepted, even if others are there in blazers.

i should've explicitly mentioned, there is an office dress code about wearing business formals from Mon-Thursday that gets published every year. friday's are a bit relaxed. This meeting was on a Wednesday. my observation was about people not caring about dress code, but not the actual topic being discussed in the meeting [lot of bright people in the meeting, not questioning that part].

 

[MrProper]

i should've explicitly mentioned, there is an office dress code about wearing business formals from Mon-Thursday that gets published every year.

Thanks for the clarification.
I suspect the dress code won't be around for much longer if the bosses don't stick to it. Role model function and all that ;-)

 

[Leather_nube]

If the vampires in twilight wrote shorts

 

[Trouser Bark]

View attachment 638522
Reminds me of a pair of cargo pants that I used to wear like that (tied below the kness).
So kind of a semi-shorts look that I actually like much better than actual shorts.
Thoughts?

I'll out myself here as unique in some circles. I have two pair of wool knickers that I wear w/ either 17" brown engineer's boots or US made Danner hiking boots. They're not something I'd wear in town but for climbing around the mountains where I live they're pretty comfy. I'm not likely to be called fashion forward anytime soon but do pay attention.

Last week I rec'd two compliments and in all sincerity both were tied indirectly to perspectives I've adopted since hanging here a bit. The first compliment was for the pairing of a leather jacket, leather boots and a carbon fiber walking stick. That from a lady young enough to never pay attention to someone of my era and the second was for a complete formal black tie outfit w/ the same CF stick. Both from complete strangers, the second of whom just said "very classy" under their breath but loud enough.

And yes, I'll keep hanging. I could get used to more of this.

 

[mumpy]

After reading this, I’m honestly not sure what your position is. You seem to just be against things (shorts, t-shirts, Zara…) but I can’t tell what you are for. Your responses to this thread read like a list of grievances, but I don’t get why you feel aggrieved.

Fashion today is WAY more democratic than it ever was before and people are far freer to explore their own sense of style than they ever were before. And far more people - especially young people - are doing just that than ever before.

The fact that society is free enough today to see a grown man wearing running shorts, a leather jacket and neon sneakers simply because that’s what he wants to wear… I personally think that’s pretty damn free.

Is that much freedom a good thing? I don’t know. But if we value the freedom of self-expression, then this is certainly the moment in all of known history when it is at its greatest extent.

You see options I see noise and garbage.

 

[Randomuser]

You see options I see noise and garbage.

Agreed! People should be confined to wearing government assigned burlap sacks (it’s burlap from Japan, fashioned after a model from the 30s. Lengthy to hide the calves). Personality is for children.

 

[The Lost Cowboy]

You see options I see noise and garbage.

I agree, that is the difference between us.

But I’m not convinced that all this personal aesthetics is somehow superior to traditional aesthetics or an authority/anti-authority aesthetic like we saw between disco and punk in the late 70s.

I was a digital nomad from 2009 to 2021 and developed my own aesthetic. I definitely enjoyed it and got a lot of compliments (and some complaints). But when I returned to the US and started back to work as a trucker, I put my personal clothes away and started wearing more traditional trucker’s attire: boots, denim trousers and jacket, etc.

What I learned was that I loved the trucker’s wardrobe even more than the wardrobe I had developed on my own. Theory would have it that I would feel more self-actualized and satisfied in an aesthetic that was completely personal - but that simply wasn’t the case. I actually prefer my trucker’s aesthetic, particularly now that I’ve added leather jackets.

So I’m not convinced that all this personal freedom we experience today is as satisfying as folks seem to think it is - but I do believe that everyone has the right to explore that for themselves.

My point is that today we have the choice, and I believe that’s a good thing.

Here’s an example of my old, completely personal aesthetic:

And here are examples of my new, more traditional aesthetic:

And here I am a few months ago in my first high end leather:

I’m not arguing the aesthetic merits, I’m just saying that I feel more comfortable in the last two than I did in the first one, even though the first one was completely my own creation. But I wouldn’t have realized that if I had not gone through the process.

 

[Will Zach]

^^
A very cool journey.

 

[The Lost Cowboy]

^^
A very cool journey.

Thank you. It’s been fun.

 

[mumpy]

I agree, that is the difference between us.

But I’m not convinced that all this personal aesthetics is somehow superior to traditional aesthetics or an authority/anti-authority aesthetic like we saw between disco and punk in the late 70s.

I was a digital nomad from 2009 to 2021 and developed my own aesthetic. I definitely enjoyed it and got a lot of compliments (and some complaints). But when I returned to the US and started back to work as a trucker, I put my personal clothes away and started wearing more traditional trucker’s attire: boots, denim trousers and jacket, etc.

What I learned was that I loved the trucker’s wardrobe even more than the wardrobe I had developed on my own. Theory would have it that I would feel more self-actualized and satisfied in an aesthetic that was completely personal - but that simply wasn’t the case. I actually prefer my trucker’s aesthetic, particularly now that I’ve added leather jackets.

So I’m not convinced that all this personal freedom we experience today is as satisfying as folks seem to think it is - but I do believe that everyone has the right to explore that for themselves.

My point is that today we have the choice, and I believe that’s a good thing.

Here’s an example of my old, completely personal aesthetic:
View attachment 638737

And here are examples of my new, more traditional aesthetic:
View attachment 638738

And here I am a few months ago in my first high end leather:
View attachment 638739

I’m not arguing the aesthetic merits, I’m just saying that I feel more comfortable in the last two than I did in the first one, even though the first one was completely my own creation. But I wouldn’t have realized that if I had not gone through the process.

The difference is that you are a person who has taste and you want to express yourself genuinely through the clothes that you wear. All the outfits are intentional and purposeful.

You would have done the same with a bit of bravery in every decade, even with more limited options (at least in the part of the world where individual expression is not heavily repressed).

I am talking about the masses that just copy random outfits on insta.

Without intention, purpose, understanding, creativity, bravery and willingness to express oneself you can't have a better outcome with more options. In fact more options may cause other problems to surface. I think you need enough options and people who are self-aware to filter through the crap we see online every day.

 

[Leather_nube]

I agree, that is the difference between us.

But I’m not convinced that all this personal aesthetics is somehow superior to traditional aesthetics or an authority/anti-authority aesthetic like we saw between disco and punk in the late 70s.

I was a digital nomad from 2009 to 2021 and developed my own aesthetic. I definitely enjoyed it and got a lot of compliments (and some complaints). But when I returned to the US and started back to work as a trucker, I put my personal clothes away and started wearing more traditional trucker’s attire: boots, denim trousers and jacket, etc.

What I learned was that I loved the trucker’s wardrobe even more than the wardrobe I had developed on my own. Theory would have it that I would feel more self-actualized and satisfied in an aesthetic that was completely personal - but that simply wasn’t the case. I actually prefer my trucker’s aesthetic, particularly now that I’ve added leather jackets.

So I’m not convinced that all this personal freedom we experience today is as satisfying as folks seem to think it is - but I do believe that everyone has the right to explore that for themselves.

My point is that today we have the choice, and I believe that’s a good thing.

Here’s an example of my old, completely personal aesthetic:
View attachment 638737

And here are examples of my new, more traditional aesthetic:
View attachment 638738

And here I am a few months ago in my first high end leather:
View attachment 638739

I’m not arguing the aesthetic merits, I’m just saying that I feel more comfortable in the last two than I did in the first one, even though the first one was completely my own creation. But I wouldn’t have realized that if I had not gone through the process.

First photo is awesome .

You have a “Johnny Depp looking for Psilocybins” vibe