IRVIN NUTS?...the ULTIMATE thread for those who love 'em!

[Edward]

Presumably military rules on acceptable uniform dress weren't as strict back then. Well... either than, or as a FM he was high ebnough up the foodchain to do as he damn well pleased without question from a higher power!

Saw Andrew (ASWatland)'s black fleece Irvin sell on the bay.... anyone know if it was a Lounger who bought it? Lovely jacket, I was very close to putting on a bid myself, but alas Christmas and other expenditures are a mite too close for that!

 

[H.Johnson]

You are right about dress codes in the 8th Armyin Africa and Italy, but other armies in other theatres were not so lax. Presumably the SMs were taking a queue from their own superior officers. It is amusing to see the 'Two Types' cartoons that satirise 8th Army dress code.

Monty was, of course, 'only' a General when these photographs were taken but his dress code (at least in action) became more eccentric as his seniority (and military achievement) increased. He also wore a Royal Navy duffle coat, of course.

Presumably military rules on acceptable uniform dress weren't as strict back then. Well... either than, or as a FM he was high ebnough up the foodchain to do as he damn well pleased without question from a higher power!

Saw Andrew (ASWatland)'s black fleece Irvin sell on the bay.... anyone know if it was a Lounger who bought it? Lovely jacket, I was very close to putting on a bid myself, but alas Christmas and other expenditures are a mite too close for that!

 

[fleet16b]

Forgive me if it has already been mentioned but I did not have time to read 71 pages of comments.
I own an original 1940 version and occasionally wear it.
However as even Irvins in the best of shape are still somewhat rare and fragile, I needed another one for use while flying my vintage bi-plane here in Canada.
There is an American firm What Price Glory, that offers a not bad Irvin for 350.00 us.
I have used it for two years nbow and it performs great,. Many people mistake it for an Aero Or Eastman.
I don't pretend to say that it is on par with either of them but it's close enough for someone that does not want to pay huge prices.
When mine arrived I was really pleased and did not expect the jacket to be that great for $350
The fur is just slightly thinner and this makes it much easier to move around in. Many people say the ELC and Aero are thick and not really flexible.
My other concern was the worry of damaging an original or $1000 repro.
For 350.00. I can wear it without much worry.
The jacket is warm and realy work well flying open cockpit in the winter.
Sorry I have no pics at present but will try to take some comparisons for everyone.
If you go to the website, "What Price Glory" , then choose the RAF list. there is a pic of the Irvin they offer.
I still amy eventually purchase an ELC Irvin but like I said if you can't or don't want to spend 1000.00, then the WPG Irvin is a good choice.

 

[ethanedwards]

WPG

Hi Fleet,
This jacket has been talked about on the thread before and from what I remember it was very well regarded especially at the price point. Hawkeye's the man I think? If it keeps you warm, especially in an open cockpit biplane, then it's doing a pretty good job - I really like the idea of a jacket being functional and used for its original design purpose.

 

[fleet16b]

Ethan

I figured it was already mentioned.
Yes, I know Hawkeye in fact it was his WPG Irvin that I saw a few years back at an airshow and that prompted me to get one.
It really is a good option for the money

Thanks

 

[aswatland]

Presumably military rules on acceptable uniform dress weren't as strict back then. Well... either than, or as a FM he was high ebnough up the foodchain to do as he damn well pleased without question from a higher power!

Saw Andrew (ASWatland)'s black fleece Irvin sell on the bay.... anyone know if it was a Lounger who bought it? Lovely jacket, I was very close to putting on a bid myself, but alas Christmas and other expenditures are a mite too close for that!

My ELC very dark fleece Irvin sold to a guy in the UK. I don't think he is a forum member. This sale will make space for a very rare size 6 Irvin which has the original label (1940 date), its original elastic strap, leather pulls, chain etc and is in outstanding condition. Most likely the work of IAC. I will post pics at the weekend.

 

[ethanedwards]

Another famous Irvin owner

I chanced on this photo recently, the Irvin jacket owned by US Ace Don Gentile

Worth checking this link too, there are many excellent photos of various pieces of flying kit although the B3 might bring you out in a cold shudder...........

http://www.eaglesquadrons.com/coppermine/displayimage.php?album=21&pos=12

 

[H.Johnson]

Unless he acquired the jacket after his squadron was disbanded, this should place the jacket as being before September 1942. This may be of interest to those who consistently call this pattern a 'late war' jacket...

There's nothing wrong with the B-3 on that site that a spot of Peccard's won't fix! lol

 

[Edward]

My ELC very dark fleece Irvin sold to a guy in the UK. I don't think he is a forum member. This sale will make space for a very rare size 6 Irvin which has the original label (1940 date), its original elastic strap, leather pulls, chain etc and is in outstanding condition. Most likely the work of IAC. I will post pics at the weekend.

Looking forward to seeing that! Despite owning the LW B3, which I adore, I'm still jonesing for an Irvin very badly.

 

[KilroyCD]

Late last winter I bought an ALC Irvin from fellow Lounger Spitfire. Due to being hung up in customs it finally arrived in April, too late for me to use it in cold weather. I've just started wearing it recently, and I can honestly say it's the thickest jacket I've ever owned. I'm not a small person, so trying to get into and out of my automobile with it on is like reenacting birth! As I don't have an original in my collection, were the originals as bulky as those made by ALC?
I'm now contemplating one from WPG...

 

[aswatland]

Late last winter I bought an ALC Irvin from fellow Lounger Spitfire. Due to being hung up in customs it finally arrived in April, too late for me to use it in cold weather. I've just started wearing it recently, and I can honestly say it's the thickest jacket I've ever owned. I'm not a small person, so trying to get into and out of my automobile with it on is like reenacting birth! As I don't have an original in my collection, were the originals as bulky as those made by ALC?
I'm now comtemplating one from WPG...

I am glad you are able to wear this Irvin now. I have a very thick pre-war IAC jacket which is featured earlier on this thread, but most of the Irvin I have owned (over 50) are thinner. So I guess the answer is originals were not usually as bulky as ALC Irvins.

 

[H.Johnson]

ALC jackets are known in the UK as 'teddy bear' jackets - I think that answers your question!

Some originals are thicker than others - DGL were noted for the lushness of their sheepskin.

Why not buy a WPG and put decent, realistic zips in it? Suitable Lightning are common enough and even Dots are available. Even if it cost you 100USD you'd still be saving compared to an ELC or Aero.

Late last winter I bought an ALC Irvin from fellow Lounger Spitfire. Due to being hung up in customs it finally arrived in April, too late for me to use it in cold weather. I've just started wearing it recently, and I can honestly say it's the thickest jacket I've ever owned. I'm not a small person, so trying to get into and out of my automobile with it on is like reenacting birth! As I don't have an original in my collection, were the originals as bulky as those made by ALC?
I'm now contemplating one from WPG...

 

[Baron Kurtz]

Is it true that many of the jackets in the museums are in rotten condition, largely due to mismanagement and being kept under the lights for too long? Drying out and flaking are major issues for the museum'd jackets, i understand.

bk

 

[H.Johnson]

This is a major concern. I won't name names, but I have visited a number if museums over several decades and the deterioration in the items on permanent display is much greater than that of corresponding items that I owned and wore regularly (in all weathers) over the same period.

I asked a curator of one famous museum in the south of England if they had clothing conservers and he admitted that they didn't. They have a complete department of staff to maintain and operate the flying and static aeroplane displays, but the flying clothing and uniforms are just stuck on dummies and left. Sad. In my experience people usually identify more strongly with clothing (we all wear it) than with weapons or military hardware.

Is it true that many of the jackets in the museums are in rotten condition, largely due to mismanagement and being kept under the lights for too long? Drying out and flaking are major issues for the museum'd jackets, i understand.

bk

 

[aswatland]

H.J is quite right. I have seen Irvins and B3s in various UK museums in a poor state, needing TLC. It makes me laugh when I read an Ebay description using the phrase "of museum quality"!

 

[Smithy]

I chanced on this photo recently, the Irvin jacket owned by US Ace Don Gentile

Worth checking this link too, there are many excellent photos of various pieces of flying kit although the B3 might bring you out in a cold shudder...........

http://www.eaglesquadrons.com/coppermine/displayimage.php?album=21&pos=12

Doesn't look like Don got a lot of use out of it. Have a look at the fullness of the fleece at the cuffs, usually the first place to get a little threadbare with use. Mind you, by this stage of the war, use of Irvins by fighter crew for actual flying duties was dropping off sharply so Don might have worn this more on chilly winter's days round base.

Thanks for posting that Ethan.

 

[Smithy]

I asked a curator of one famous museum in the south of England if they had clothing conservers and he admitted that they didn't. They have a complete department of staff to maintain and operate the flying and static aeroplane displays, but the flying clothing and uniforms are just stuck on dummies and left.

That really is appalling. Sad to think that because of this sort of neglect they won't last another 60 odd years.

 

[aswatland]

Doesn't look like Don got a lot of use out of it. Have a look at the fullness of the fleece at the cuffs, usually the first place to get a little threadbare with use. Mind you, by this stage of the war, use of Irvins by fighter crew for actual flying duties was dropping off sharply so Don might have worn this more on chilly winter's days round base.

Thanks for posting that Ethan.

Notice the damage to the right cuff. I suspect this occurred post war where the sheepskin has deteriorated, rather than wartime wear.

 

[Smithy]

Notice the damage to the right cuff. I suspect this occurred post war where the sheepskin has deteriorated, rather than wartime wear.

Thanks for pointing that out Andrew. Seems, well from what you can tell from the photo, that there is very little creasing on the arms as well which would also suggest that this had a fairly sheltered life.

 

[aswatland]

Thanks for pointing that out Andrew. Seems, well from what you can tell from the photo, that there is very little creasing on the arms as well which would also suggest that this had a fairly sheltered life.

Yes I agree. This Irvin has not been heavily worn. The main Lightning zip is in tact, along with the leather pull and the collar is thick with no obvious wear.