IRVIN NUTS?...the ULTIMATE thread for those who love 'em!

[H.Johnson]

Avoid eBay. Follow up personal contacts. Frequent surplus shops.

Most of all, don't be mercenary and don't try too hard.

I have never bought an 'Irvin' from eBay and I have in my time owned more than twenty. Many came from the widows or families of the original wearers, often with provenance. That's an advantage of living in an 'RAF town', I suppose. Some actually cost me nothing but an assurance that I would look after them and find them a 'good home' when I could no longer keep them.

I have bought a few, however. If you look at John Chapman's CD of flight (sic) jackets you will see on it two examples of RAF flying jackets. I bought one of those (from a Spitfire owner!) for considerably less than half of the price of that Irvin on eBay.

Keep looking.

 

[dit dah]

Thank you Mr. Johnson, you seem to be the "Yoda" of Irvin collecting.

"Force not your searching, free your desire, beware the dark auction house".

Joking aside, I will attempt to heed your advice.

 

[ethanedwards]

I see no definite reason to avoid ebay. I've bought 2 Irvin's from there, maybe I paid more than I might have, but certainly not more than I could sensibly afford. A lot of jackets appear there which are being sold by very reputable people - to avoid it altogether is curious advice in my opinion.

The jacket you want is out there DD, and your paths will meet eventually - I found it hard work trying to find one the right size for me before ebay, but I
wasn't in the same situation as H. Johnson who has had considerable success.

Did you make any records of your Jackets H.J. , it would be great to see some pics if you have any.

 

[H.Johnson]

Below you state concisely the reason for avoiding eBay if price is a concern. You pay more than you might. Why compete with the rest of the world? The other reason is that almost everybody who is looking for an Irvin jacket is probably sitting at home glued to their computers. There are Irvins out there on the streets...

I research and document all of my WW2 artefacts as thoroughly as I can and in almost all cases when I pass them on to 'good homes' the documentation goes with them. Sorry, but I tend not to publish photographs without permission - these artefacts belonged to dead people who have relatives to whom I believe sensitivity should be shown.

Other loungers have posted photographs of jackets etc., which I own or have owned elsewhere in this thread.

I see no definite reason to avoid ebay. I've bought 2 Irvin's from there, maybe I paid more than I might have, but certainly not more than I could sensibly afford.

Did you make any records of your Jackets H.J. , it would be great to see some pics if you have any.

 

[ethanedwards]

Sorry to be a pedant, in fact I said MAYBE you would pay more - there is no
like-for-like comparison available at any given time, so how could one ever say for sure. Personally I've always felt that collecting these items and exhibiting them - either physically or photographically - is a most positive and useful way of commemorating this generation of heroes. It goes, in some small way, to perpetuating their memory. It is done, by myself at any rate, largely as a form of tribute and the economics of it are never the sole consideration.

 

[Rufus]

A question on Irvin sizing..

The old military sizing 4-8 etc... obviously has a corresponding chest measurement, but how accurate is this? Should one aim up or down size wise? As I gather you'd have your RAF uniform and gear to contend with in sizing...

I'm looking for a smallish one, 38 chest, but don't know is I should go a size down to avoid being swamped.
Any advice would be very welcome...

Ebay..convenience often costs a bit more, but for those of us who for one reason or another can not locate Irvins locally, it is a great source. Yes, you have to compete with the 'World'. but the alternative may be not finding one.

Vive la difference! ;-)

Rufus

 

[ethanedwards]

Sorry Ruf, are you after an original or a repro? A size 6 label states it's intended for 40/42" but it would easily fit a 44", even a 46" if worn without much under it. My size 5 fits me best, I'm a 42" chest but the label indicates that this is intended for a 38-40".
If there's any logic to this (!?!) a size 3 - labeled to fit 34-36" ought to be OK on a 38" chest.
I don't know how consistent sizing was between makers though, this is where
H.J.'s methods definitely has ebay beaten - you can try before you buy!
Aero currently have a 38/40 BoB Irvin in their WW2 militaria section for
£525 - a quick email and Amanda will have the measurements with you.

As you know, the repro sizes are always in inches and closer to a true fit - but
even this is a minefield looking at what Tim and Hawkeye have posted in the past. But I hope this helps a bit.

BTW, you were in the Guardian guide (Saturday) a few weeks back - did you see it?

 

[H.Johnson]

Sorry to be equally pedantic, but maybe and might are just different forms of the same qualifying part of speech.

My advice was specifically to another poster who, if I understood him correctly, asked how he could obtain a RAF sheepskin flying jacket cheaply. The advice was based on my own experience and was intended to help him. Isn't that what this forum is for? I apologise if any offence was caused.

Sorry to be a pedant, in fact I said MAYBE you would pay more - there is no
like-for-like comparison available at any given time, so how could one ever say for sure. Personally I've always felt that collecting these items and exhibiting them - either physically or photographically - is a most positive and useful way of commemorating this generation of heroes. It goes, in some small way, to perpetuating their memory. It is done, by myself at any rate, largely as a form of tribute and the economics of it are never the sole consideration.

 

[dit dah]

On reflection I think both ethanedwards and h.Johnson are right. I haven't seen a decent Irvin for sale outside of Ebay for a long time. I'd be shocked to see one in a surplus store, surely the owner would either a) price it accordingly or b) put it on Ebay. Actually there is one for sale via the dealer Rokit at the mo: £1200. I don't have any personal contacts to cultivate, other than your good selves, in order find one. So no one is likely to give me one.

Ebay is Ebay. You can find whatever you want, but so can all the other people who want the same thing. Then it's down to how much you want or can afford the item. Ebay can be wonderful or a pain in the bum/ fanny/ whatever you're calling it.

I want to find another Irvin and wear it as a homage to "Aim Point Harry", my Great Uncle. If it were the wonderful styling, practicality, craftsmanship alone then I would get a repro. My interest lies in the vintage; cars, house stuff, clothes, everything. That's because there is something of the previous owner still about them. I like the ghosts. I like the continuation.

I think, Mr. Johnson, that you are in a position that few of us are in. I do understand this situation: I am offered wonderful vintage snare drums that you would not be offered. I was given one for nothing last month as I knew the former owner. You would have to pay a huge sum for this and probably have to turn to Ebay to even find one. I'm out of my comfort zone with the Irvins so am out there in the "general population".

Thanks for the sizing info, I now think I need a size 4. hint hint

 

[ethanedwards]

Sorry to be equally pedantic, but maybe and might are just different forms of the same qualifying part of speech.

My advice was specifically to another poster who, if I understood him correctly, asked how he could obtain a RAF sheepskin flying jacket cheaply. The advice was based on my own experience and was intended to help him. Isn't that what this forum is for? I apologise if any offence was caused.

No need H. Johnson, I'm equally apologetic if my posts caused you any offence - as you say, we should be here to help one another.

 

[H.Johnson]

The sad thing is the dealer will get that price. The second best Irvin I have ever seen in terms of condition was sold by Aero Leathers a couple of years ago for the same amount. I saw a multipanel wired Wareings version in a surplus shop in Dudley about six months ago, priced at 300GBP if I remember correctly. I was at the St. Ouen in Paris last year and they had three mid-war jackets on a rail among some French military gear, all at more reasonably prices than I have seen on eBay lately.

I hate to see the way money has crept into this hobby. I am at the stage in my life when I am trying to get rid of things, rather than acquiring more of them, so I tend not to be 'on the lookout' for flying gear to the same extent any more. I'm happy that the items I have passed on to 'new homes' are being well looked after (including a full matching suit I recently passed to a worthy Lounger).

On reflection I think both ethanedwards and h.Johnson are right. I haven't seen a decent Irvin for sale outside of Ebay for a long time. I'd be shocked to see one in a surplus store, surely the owner would either a) price it accordingly or b) put it on Ebay. Actually there is one for sale via the dealer Rokit at the mo: £1200. I don't have any personal contacts to cultivate, other than your good selves, in order find one. So no one is likely to give me one.

 

[aswatland]

It is interesting that you passed on an Irvin suite to a Lounger recently. Alan Eardley did the same I believe to Paddy.

 

[Baron Kurtz]

There are quite a few existant intact suits around it seems. Some in nicely small sizes …

bk

 

[BellyTank]

Quite the coincidence there, eh?
Testament to the generosity of FLoungers.

B
T

 

[aswatland]

Quite the coincidence there, eh?
Testament to the generosity of FLoungers.

B
T

Yes and geographical similarities between Alan and H. J.

 

[Hawk_Eye]

Playing around with the screen capture function on my dvd-rom, a couple captures of Monty and his Irvin from A Bridge Too Far, apologies for the size, I couldnt find a way to zoom in.

 

[ethanedwards]

I wonder if such a celebrated Irvin has survived and is displayed in a museum somewhere? Or maybe somebody now owns it and is oblivious of it's pedigree?

 

[dit dah]

Stop it, you'll give those pesky Ebay sellers ideas.

"name in back of jacket, can't quite read it, might be Nonty, sand in pockets, came in a trunk with other artifacts from estate sale, beret, scowl etc"

 

[ethanedwards]

lol lol lol

 

[H.Johnson]

These photos show what a short guy the FM was...

...and what an eclectic dresser. As well as a RAF jacket he is wearing an Armoured beret (Monty was Infantry, of course, but it was given to him by the driver of his command tank) and aircrew trousers.