IRVIN NUTS?...the ULTIMATE thread for those who love 'em!

[aswatland]

Thanks for the picture and information. Your Lightning zip may well be an early '30s one which was used as NOS towards the end of the war. As you know these are not typical wartime pulls and closely resembleTalon/Hookless pulls. I have seen early 30sDot made in England zips used on mid war Irvins. As Alan will surely confirm, makers had stockpiles of zips, some dating back several years, which were used in the war and this makes dating a jacket by the zips difficult, unless of course it has FF zips!

 

[Alan Eardley]

The links between Talon (previously Hookless) and Lightning are documented in some detail in the excellent book 'Talon - a Romance of Achievement'. The Lightning operation was originally set up in Canada with Mr Sundback, the driving force behind Talon as a consultant. ICI in the UK was a major shareholder and developed the production facilities in the UK when its armaments business (the Dynamit Nobel division) was running down post WW1. Therefore Canadian Lightnings look very like Talons (right from the early days) and UK Lightnings are different. The appearance of Canadian Lightning zips on 'Irvin' jackets (on a very different tape - yellow rather than red) has led to speculation that RCAF had jackets or suits sourced in Canada. I don't see why this is impossible, as everything from small arms to aeroplanes that were used in the RAF were made there.

Nice zip and thanks for the reference to the advert!

Alan

 

[Aviakid]

Irvin Zippers

Just scanned a UK advertisement for Lightning dated Jan 1st 1925, can post it but would this be the appropriate thread to add it to?

 

[Baron Kurtz]

Maybe not, but why not post it here anyway. The audience will certainly be interested. There is also a zipper thread. Please resurrect it, too.

http://www.thefedoralounge.com/showthread.php?t=6076

bk

 

[Aviakid]

Lightning Zippers UK advert 1925

Here's the ad in all its glory, just realised it actually for a product made by the Central Rubber & Leather Co, which utilises Lightning fastners. Culled from a copy of the Motor Cycle Jan 1st 1925.
I'll upload it to the zippers thread too.
Regards
Derek

 

[Aviakid]

Lightning advert

Just noticed that the Lightning Fastener Overalls advert is actually from Nov 6th 1924, the crumbling interior of one magazine somehow made it into the crumbling exterior of an earlier edition. Sorry about that!

 

[Alan Eardley]

Excellent! Interestingly (but not relevantly) there is documentary evidence that 'Sandy' Irvine specified that Lightning Fasteners be added to the pockets on his Burberry Sports Jacket for the assault on Everest, also in 1924. It is interesting (to me anyway) that the BF Goodrich connection with Talon came about through BFG making rubberised clothing.

Alan

 

[aswatland]

Here are the pictures of my Flash Fastener Zip from Oct. 1943. The zip is in mint condition. A unique survival from the war.

 

[jamespibworth@n]

Whoto Chaps, hope you are all well,

The quest for an original Irvin has ended. Thanks to EBay I am now awaiting an early example apparently issued to an air gunner in early 1940. Oh and by the way Andrew, it has its original Dot zips!

Also on the way is a 70s ALC Irvin which I intend for general wear, when cold enough, bit like today is!

Both jackets have two piece backs which makes sense for the original but I think is unusual for ALC?. I assume this is so because its one of their early jackets (having started in production 1977) any thoughts?

Blimey, hope they fit!!!

James

 

[Smithy]

Pictures James, we want lots of pictures when they turn up!

 

[Mike1973]

what hole...?

Well done James! And just in time for Christmas...

I've been playing with my early Christmas present from Alan. Now you see it...

now you don't...

A weeks worth of evenings spent very slowly and carefully glueing all the rips up. At the moment, this isn't a restoration, merely consolodation.... This was by far the worst rip, but I could see there didn't seem to be any missing leather...

Anyway, a question... the jacket appears to have been painted or dyed with something at sometime during it's life...? Anyone know what? Or when? Was it something done by the RAF maybe? I thought it may have been brought up before in this thread, but I had a quick flick and couldn't find anything.

 

[Alan Eardley]

Mike

Well done! That's the way to do it. Still a lot to do, though!

As the thread has moved towards zips, why not post a pic of the early pattern Dot sleeve zip? BTW, if you ever replace the Aero main zip, I'll have it off you...

It was dyed black in the late 1950s or early 60s, when the son of the guy to whom it was originally issued (in, we think, 1937) acquired it and used it as a 'rocker jacket'. Apparently you wouldn't be seen dead wearing a brown jacket on your 'bathtub' Speed Twin...

Keep up the good work.

Alan

 

[Mike1973]

Mike

Well done! That's the way to do it. Still a lot to do, though!

As the thread has moved towards zips, why not post a pic of the early pattern Dot sleeve zip? BTW, if you ever replace the Aero main zip, I'll have it off you...

It was dyed black in the late 1950s or early 60s, when the son of the guy to whom it was originally issued (in, we think, 1937) acquired it and used it as a 'rocker jacket'. Apparently you wouldn't be seen dead wearing a brown jacket on your 'bathtub' Speed Twin...

Keep up the good work.

Alan

That makes perfect sense! The 'BSA' Irvin, while not black, is very dark as well. Maybe that's had a coat of something in the past... Don't think it will catch on now though, in Irvin circles I believe Brown is the new Black...

I wasn't sure about using glue, but read of a few good results using it over on the VLJ so gave it a go on a couple of tears on the BSA Irvin... Still holding up well and it gets a fair bit of use (It's on the back of my chair here at work now, freezing in Southampton ) They recommended 'Barge Cement', which I couldn't find over here. I went to a local shoe repairer and bought the strongest glue he had, a contact adhesive.

I'll post a few zip pics tonight. Had a go last night (see zipper thread), but just the Lightnings so far... they are awkward to do with a little point and press!

 

[Alan Eardley]

I recommend an adhesive called Shoo Goo (OK, Barge Cement sounds more 'vintage').

PS, if we sit quietly, perhaps the Baron show us his new Irvin...

Alan

That makes perfect sense! The 'BSA' Irvin, while not black, is very dark as well. Maybe that's had a coat of something in the past... Don't think it will catch on now though, in Irvin circles I believe Brown is the new Black...

I wasn't sure about using glue, but read of a few good results using it over on the VLJ so gave it a go on a couple of tears on the BSA Irvin... Still holding up well and it gets a fair bit of use (It's on the back of my chair here at work now, freezing in Southampton ) They recommended 'Barge Cement', which I couldn't find over here. I went to a local shoe repairer and bought the strongest glue he had, a contact adhesive.

I'll post a few zip pics tonight. Had a go last night (see zipper thread), but just the Lightnings so far... they are awkward to do with a little point and press!

 

[Mike1973]

...

As the thread has moved towards zips, why not post a pic of the early pattern Dot sleeve zip? BTW, if you ever replace the Aero main zip, I'll have it off you...

Been playing with the camera... had problems getting results worth posting but think I've cracked it at last!

 

[Mike1973]

And the replacement Aero...

The intact sleeve zip is a very rare early pattern Dot. The main zip is a replacement 1940s Aero - collectors of 1950s British 'bike jackets go mad for those.

If I ever replace it, it's your Alan...

 

[Baron Kurtz]

Original Irvin.

Here you go, Alan. Preliminary shots of my new original Irvin in a rare tiny size. This is probably the smallest size (size 1, size 2 at the outside chance) made during WWII. I've waited for sooo long for one to come along this small and this short. And then this beast drops in my lap. Unbelievably fine leather - not a flaw to it. Not even any worn spots. The shearling is - at its thinnest - 1 inch long, and 1.5 inches in most parts of the jacket. The belt is right at my natural waist and the jacket is not much longer. This is how i always imagined the "correct" fit of a flight jacket. 'pun reliable information (thanks, Andrew!!), it is tentatively dated to around 1943.

Better pics of all the features when i get a chance.

Needless to say, it was worn today.

bk

 

[Mike1973]

I'm on a roll now...

The sleeve zip on the Don Gunn* late war multi panel I bought off Andrew last year...

(name tag inside sleeve)

 

[Mike1973]

Preliminary shots of my new original Irvin in a rare tiny size. bk

You wear it well BK! Perfect fit, and a great looking jacket! I love the later jackets with the shaggy looking sheepskin.

Look forward to more pics...

BTW, is it the Coastal Command Irvin I spotted on ebay very recently?....

 

[Baron Kurtz]

That's the one. And he wasn't kidding: It's really small. Must be, to fit me.

bk