IRVIN NUTS?...the ULTIMATE thread for those who love 'em!

[Windsock]

http://home.clara.net/clinchy/neeb1b.htm

I have seen shots similar to this one before, but haven't been able to identify the sleeveless jackets they are wearing.
I have a copy of an original 1935 RAE Farnborough document on thermal insulation of flying suits. The report refers to a two piece suit provided by Mssr Irving Co. ltd and that it is a light type suit made of tanned leather and lined with camel hair cloth. The same document refers to a heavier short jacket which may refer to a standard early Irvin.

Does anyone know what this lightweight one might have been? Perhaps the ones depicted in this shot, but they appear to be fabric.

 

[fishmeok]

I did also receive my WPG Irvin today. I'm a bit torn about it. There's lots to like, but it does have kind of cheapo feel to it (I know: not surprising given the price). The sheepskin portion of it feels kind of fragile to me, I almost thought it was vinyl at first. It'll be interesting to see how it wears. I'm also not sure about the size. I went one size up from my usual 44 and though the sleeve length is great, overall the jacket feels a little poofy. .

I bought a WPG Irvin almost 4 years ago- first version, not quite as nice looking as the current version. Don't worry about the sheepskin holding up, There has been more than one occasion where I've caught it on something and was sure I ripped it, only to find no sign of damage. The current crop seems a little oversized compared to my version, but going down a size won't make that much difference, it's a big, bulkey jacket. Wear and enjoy, I use mine mostly when the wind blows and my B-10 feels like a windbreaker- or when I want to dress up a little.
Cheers
Mark

 

[Alan Eardley]

That remind sme of the example I examined (see post above). It is perhaps worth pointing out that the early jackets have a shorter 'pile' than the later ones - the thickness of the fleece in the above example is not unrealistic. The collar shape isn't quite as 'off' as some recent ones of which I have seen photographs.

It strikes me that adding period Lightning zips (they are not hard to obtain) would make a WPG into quite a nice jacket at the price.

Alan

 

[Spitfire]

Irvin breaking in.

As promised - some fast pics of my IRVIN 3 months after I got it.
Pardon the distant / slightly tired look on the model - he was on his way doing christmas shopping

And a little more fancy - with RAF 1936 pattern flyingboots!

 

[CBI]

I have an ELC Irvin purchased as a gift by my family for me about 11 years ago (they have almost doubled in price since then!). I love the idea of getting an original but I have had terrible luck with original B-3's just falling apart on me. Since then I have stayed away from any original shearing jackets. How many of you guys have had original Irvins fall apart, rip, etc. on you?

 

[Smithy]

CBI, Andrew will be able to add more on this but it has been discussed here before that WWII US sheepskin jackets are notorious for falling apart. A reason put forward has been the inferiority of US sheepskins compared to British sheepskins. Just have a trawl back over this thread and you see a lot of original Irvins in great condition after 70 odd years, and you seen many on auction and militaria sites in the same brilliant order. I think it's safe to say that overall original Irvins have been far better at holding up over the years than their US cousins.

Spitty, great photos, that AL is wearing in beautifully, very dashing.

fftopic: Good grief, you've still got a lot of greenery down in København! All the leaves fell off everything except the pines well over a month ago now.

 

[Marv]

I think you'll be hard pushed to find a mint Irvin these days.....Andrew has them all lol

 

[boyorastroboy]

Don't worry about the sheepskin holding up, There has been more than one occasion where I've caught it on something and was sure I ripped it, only to find no sign of damage.

Wow, fishmeok, that's good to hear. Maybe it's a little more robust than it feels. To me, so much of the beauty of a leather jacket is how it ages--I hope I won't be robbed of that with this one, but yours looks great even after some years.
Thanks everyone for all the vintage Irvin shots, definitely some comparable fits to what I'm experiencing. I've ordered a smaller one to compare--I'll return whichever feels less good.

 

[Alan Eardley]

In two cases I had - but they had been used continuously since WW2. There are still RAF jackets (and trousers) about in very good condition at reasonable prices compared to reproductions. Andrew only buys most of them - not all. I think most people who have owned both would agree that the sheepskin of RAF jackets is much more durable that that used in B-3s or D-1s.

Alan

I have an ELC Irvin purchased as a gift by my family for me about 11 years ago (they have almost doubled in price since then!). I love the idea of getting an original but I have had terrible luck with original B-3's just falling apart on me. Since then I have stayed away from any original shearing jackets. How many of you guys have had original Irvins fall apart, rip, etc. on you?

 

[kools]

Seems like you gents have got some very nice jacket. Off course one needs to hold them, to be able to judge the authencity and quality.
See details like buckels, zippers, underarmventilation etc.

Yes. I'm not very concerned abou the leather. I think it will hold up well. The only "cheapness" feels like the hardware. Both the zipper and the buckle feel like they won't last much rugged wear.

As for the "red" look to the leather, I think it is just my lighting.

 

[aswatland]

Irvin zips

There are a variety of zips used on Irvin flying jackets. None of these have been successfully copied by repro makers because of the cost. There are various styles of Dot zips, Lightnings and those made by F.F. ltd or F.S Ltd (probably Flash Fastener). As we know 1930s zips were used on Wartime jackets as manufacturers used whatever was too hand! Here are a few pics just to show some of the variety found on Irvins from the early '30s to the late war period. Which is the earliest type of zip used on an Irvin?

Dot main zip from a mid '30s Irvin

Dot "Deco" style sleeve zip from the same jacket.

Dot "made in England" brass single trunnion main zip from pre-1935 jacket

Sleeve zip from same jacket

Lightning zip from late war multi-panel jacket

F.S Ltd sleeve zip from the same jacket

Dot Sleeve zip from 1935 Irvin. Brass pull stamped "Dot made in England", with cast double trunnion slider

F.F. Ltd sleeve zip from a late war Irvin

Dot main zip with mottled and lined puller and chrome plated slider from 1938 Irvin

 

[Smithy]

Thanks for posting those Andrew. It's always a pleasure to see pictures from your collection.

Anymore Irvins in the pipeline for purchase?

 

[aswatland]

Thanks for posting those Andrew. It's always a pleasure to see pictures from your collection.

Anymore Irvins in the pipeline for purchase?

Thanks Smithy. I have bought three in the last month on Ebay, a very nice late war Irvin suit (definite keeper) which belonged to an officer in the Fleet Air Arm, a mid War Wareings jacket (for restoration and re-sale) and a mid War Irvin suit. All were relatively cheap due to poorish Ebay listings/inconvenient end times with few pics. As Alan observes, there still are bargains out there if you know where to look.

 

[Smithy]

Andrew, I've been meaning to ask you this, but have you discovered if there is a difference in the length of fleeces offered by different original makers, or is it all over the show, with Irvins from the same maker having various thicknesses of fleece? Or were certain original makers more likely to use longer/shorter fleeces than other makers?

 

[aswatland]

Andrew, I've been meaning to ask you this, but have you discovered if there is a difference in the length of fleeces offered by different original makers, or is it all over the show, with Irvins from the same maker having various thicknesses of fleece? Or were certain original makers more likely to use longer/shorter fleeces than other makers?

I would have to measure the thickness of the fleece on my jackets to give a scientific reply, and do so on different parts of the jackets as the length of the pile varied on the same jacket! However, what I can say is this: Up to about 1940 jackets from IAC, Wareings, DGL and Links had short pile, with variations in thickness. There was also variation between makers and with jackets from the same maker. It would depend on the original fleeces to some extent, I suppose.

The fleeces on my jackets from 1941 onwards are shaggier and longer in most cases. Mid - late war jackets by Wareings appear to have longer fleeces than most other makers. It is important to remember that there are still jackets around where the makers are unknown.

 

[Smithy]

Thanks Andrew, I was wondering if a rough pattern existed among makers.

You really must write the first book on Irvins and their history, you can put me down for a copy if you ever do!

 

[aswatland]

Thanks Andrew, I was wondering if a rough pattern existed among makers.

You really must write the first book on Irvins and their history, you can put me down for a copy if you ever do!

Back in the early 1980s I spent three years researching and writing my history Phd and a further ten years extending it for publication whilst working full time. The family hardly saw me! Never again! So yes if I had the time to do the archival research an eventual book may emerge on Irvins. Probably more of a retirement project. Now Alan is about to retire from academic life........

 

[Smithy]

Back in the early 1980s I spent three years researching and writing my history Phd and a further ten years extending it for publication whilst working full time. The family hardly saw me! Never again! So yes if I had the time to do the archival research an eventual book may emerge on Irvins. Probably more of a retirement project. Now Alan is about to retire from academic life........

Alan!

 

[Spitfire]

"The Book of Irvins"...wouldn't it be great?
We should have knowhow, knowledge and interests enough in this lounge to make it happen. I - and my agency - gladly volunteres for the layout and designwork of such a pearl.

 

[aswatland]

"The Book of Irvins"...wouldn't it be great?
We should have knowhow, knowledge and interests enough in this lounge to make it happen. I - and my agency - gladly volunteres for the layout and designwork of such a pearl.

Thanks spitfire. I might take you up on your offer at some stage!