Indy Review

[jake431]

Why does everybody see hiding in the refrigerator to avoid nuclear fallout and cry "false!" but using an inflatable raft to jump from an airplane in ToD (which had much worse dialog than this movie) yields no similar outcry? I think the problem with most of the reviewers is they forgot what it was to be young and uncritical, which they were when they first saw Indiana Jones and Raiders of the Lost Ark, which was, I might add, the only perfect movie in the series, or Tod or LC, which weren't perfect, but most of us were very young (I was 15 when LC came out). Who ever thought Indiana Jones could really happen? Not me.

They made the most authentic Indiana Jones movie they could. Would I have loved a WW2 era Jones movie to have come out 10 years ago when it would have been believable? Yes. But, since it didn't happen, I'm quite happy with what I got.

My take on it is this - if you look for fault, you will surely find it.

-Jake

 

[A.R. McVintage]

Why does everybody see hiding in the refrigerator to avoid nuclear fallout and cry "false!" but using an inflatable raft to jump from an airplane in ToD (which had much worse dialog than this movie) yields no similar outcry?

-Jake

It's all in the appearances. While highly improbable, Indy is the man for executing highly improbable acts and surviving.

That said, I don't believe this frees him up to be indestructable, and surviving what we know to have killed tens of thousands of Japanese in one go makes him indestructable. I also don't believe it excuses illogic regarding action sequences.

The man can't remain conscious during a trip on a rocket sled, but right after being jounced and bounced and jolted across miles of desert in a fridge (which for some reason didn't immediately turn to melted slag) climbs out without a ding or dent or even a groan of recognition of the massive pain he should be in (or a puddle of bones and guts, but we'll ignore that).

 

[Bugsy]

I finally saw the film today. Great cast, great effects, but where was the wit the charm of--espeically--Indy 1 & 3? Pehaps it's time the franchise is allowed to rest and not get beaten into the ground like Star Wars was.

 

[ShoreRoadLady]

Originally posted by jake431:
Why does everybody see hiding in the refrigerator to avoid nuclear fallout and cry "false!" but using an inflatable raft to jump from an airplane in ToD (which had much worse dialog than this movie) yields no similar outcry? I think the problem with most of the reviewers is they forgot what it was to be young and uncritical, which they were when they first saw Indiana Jones and Raiders of the Lost Ark, which was, I might add, the only perfect movie in the series, or Tod or LC, which weren't perfect, but most of us were very young (I was 15 when LC came out). Who ever thought Indiana Jones could really happen? Not me.

I've watched all three (make that four) movies within the past year, for the first time. I'm sure I didn't quite get some of the magic that a lot of you felt when seeing it back in the '80s, but I still know there was a distinct difference between the trilogy and KOTCS. It wasn't just the lack of realism (the "believability" of Indy surviving an atomic blast wasn't my top issue at all), it was a combination of factors.

As long as they leave it with Indy IV, I think I can watch it as a "possible future Indiana Jones adventure", but not taking it as canon. But *please*, not Indy V!

 

[jake431]

It's all in the appearances. While highly improbable, Indy is the man for executing highly improbable acts and surviving.

That said, I don't believe this frees him up to be indestructable, and surviving what we know to have killed tens of thousands of Japanese in one go makes him indestructable. I also don't believe it excuses illogic regarding action sequences.

The man can't remain conscious during a trip on a rocket sled, but right after being jounced and bounced and jolted across miles of desert in a fridge (which for some reason didn't immediately turn to melted slag) climbs out without a ding or dent or even a groan of recognition of the massive pain he should be in (or a puddle of bones and guts, but we'll ignore that).

Or people surviving being held over lava in a cave (and not burning), somehow holding on to the outside of a Nazi sub (and not drowning), or surviving an underground inferno in Venice (again with the burning, or at the very least not drowning as he escapes), etc...

While the nuclear blast was highly improbable, at least they tried to explain it by the whole lead lined refrigerator thing.

 

[Doctor Strange]

I must state for the record that not all Indy fans were kids when they first saw the films - I was 26 when Raiders came out. Even though I wasn't an impressionable kid, I adored it, saw it in theaters at least three times during its initial run, and still can't get over what a uniquely perfect and charming thrill machine it is.

Impossible escapes have always been part of the Indy series, and major suspension of disbelief and a sense of sure-it's-impossible-but-he's-Indy! was always required to enjoy the films. That said, the fridge sequence indeed pushed the envelope a bit. But Crystal Skull has other, far bigger problems, both in terms of believability and (far more seriously, to my mind) in things like pacing, dialog, story logic, etc.

Which doesn't mean that I didn't have a ball watching it, but it's surely no Raiders - heck, it's not even a Last Crusade...

 

[jake431]

I must state for the record that not all Indy fans were kids when they first saw the films - I was 26 when Raiders came out. Even though I wasn't an impressionable kid, I adored it, saw it in theaters at least three times during its initial run, and still can't over what a uniquely perfect and charming thrill machine it is.

Impossible escapes have always been part of the Indy series, and major suspension of disbelief and a sense of sure-it's-impossible-but-he's-Indy! was always required to enjoy the films. That said, the fridge sequence indeed pushed the envelope a bit. But Crystal Skull has other, far bigger problems, both in terms of believability and (far more seriously, to my mind) in things like pacing, dialog, story logic, etc.

Which doesn't mean that I didn't have a ball watching it, but it's surely no Raiders - heck, it's not even a Last Crusade...

I certainly don't rate Crystal Skull above Raiders or Last Crusade, but sorry folks, for script alone I'll shoe-horn it in above ToD.

 

[A.R. McVintage]

I certainly don't rate Crystal Skull above Raiders or Last Crusade, but sorry folks, for script alone I'll shoe-horn it in above ToD.

Then I don't think you understand the major problems this had compared to ToD.

 

[A.R. McVintage]

Or people surviving being held over lava in a cave (and not burning), somehow holding on to the outside of a Nazi sub (and not drowning), or surviving an underground inferno in Venice (again with the burning, or at the very least not drowning as he escapes), etc...

The sub didn't dive and the patroleum was floating on top of water. The lava I'll grant, barely, as the film is simply an homage to Gunga Din and over-the-top boys-own-adventure stories, with everything in the flick being exaggerated down to them eating eyeball soup.

While the nuclear blast was highly improbable, at least they tried to explain it by the whole lead lined refrigerator thing.

What happened to the other fridges? Presumably we should have seen several of them "flying" out of the blast which literally turned the houses to vapor and smoke.

And how come the guy can't stay conscious for something going really fast in a straight line but manages to stay conscious being blown out of a ground zero detonation at what would have to be a faster speed, all the while tumbling and bouncing? And how come he alone survives what flattened Hiroshima and Nagasaki?

 

[Doh!]

The hiding in the fridge didn't really bother me. However, Indy getting his clothes back after the scrubdown doesn't really make that much sense.

("Here's your fedora back, sir. Nevermind the burning sensation when it touches your skin.")

 

[Madcap72]

Technically if they make one more it should be good. Hoping they follow the good bad good pace.

 

[jake431]

Then I don't think you understand the major problems this had compared to ToD.

No, I just don't agree with you. I've never liked Temple of Doom, no matter how many times I watch it I can't stand the script and I don't like that Lucas has him acting more like Han Solo instead of Indy. Lucas had too heavy a hand in it's production (even obliquely mentioned if you watch the making of ToD in the box set) and the character suffers.

Crystal Skull was better, in my opinion. The script was better, the character(s) were who they were supposed to be and the action was fun. It's my third favorite in the series.

 

[jake431]

The hiding in the fridge didn't really bother me. However, Indy getting his clothes back after the scrubdown doesn't really make that much sense.

("Here's your fedora back, sir. Nevermind the burning sensation when it touches your skin.")

He always gets his clothes back. He shouldn't of had them after Raiders, and he shouldn't of had them in Raiders because technically ToD happens first. It's the movies.

 

[A.R. McVintage]

No, I just don't agree with you.

I'm not talking about opinion.

You don't have to like Willie or Short Round or the plot, but on a purely technical level, Doom is leagues ahead of Skull in things like script.

Not having characters or a story you like is a matter of taste; how that is executed is not.

 

[jake431]

I'm not talking about opinion.

You don't have to like Willie or Short Round or the plot, but on a purely technical level, Doom is leagues ahead of Skull in things like script.

Not having characters or a story you like is a matter of taste; how that is executed is not.

???

How can my preference for the lines uttered in Crystal Skull to the lines uttered in Temple of Doom be anything other than an opinion? Merriam-Webster defines Opinion as "a view, judgment, or appraisal formed in the mind about a particular matter".

Please elaborate on this "purely technical level". Educate me.

 

[A.R. McVintage]

???

How can my preference for the lines uttered in Crystal Skull to the lines uttered in Temple of Doom be anything other than an opinion? Merriam-Webster defines Opinion as "a view, judgment, or appraisal formed in the mind about a particular matter".

Please elaborate on this "purely technical level". Educate me.

Well, and remember, this is directed at the film and not you, there's the fact that the character arcs are practically nonexistant, there're too many characters with too little to do, action sequences don't follow logically and they bring up two different plot points early on and offer no resolution to them.

There's a ton of flaws like that in Skull, whereas in Doom, whatever your feelings, as a script, it's techincally much more polished.

 

[ShoreRoadLady]

So it's come down to debating the superiority of Temple of Doom? lol Do we have a popcorn smiley?

Technically, TOD has a more fluid storyline. Despite its total illogic, the story makes sense (more or less) within its own framework. KOTCS has all the problems A.R. McVintage listed. (Plus more, but I'll shush for now.)

But if you liked KOTCS, I'm not here to stop you. I know *I* hate plenty of supposedly "classic" films and prefer cheesier ones!

Oh, and one other element that contributed to the feeling of strangeness: They came up with a new nickname for Indiana Jones! "Jonesyyyy!" This is a perfect example of something that makes perfect, logical sense, but fails to deliver on film. Logically, an old buddy would have a unique name for him, but we're not used to this name. We want "Indy". We want a semblance of familiarity. Instead we get a strange new character and a strange new nickname.

 

[Madcap72]

So it's come down to debating the superiority of Temple of Doom? lol Do we have a popcorn smiley?

Technically, TOD has a more fluid storyline. Despite its total illogic, the story makes sense (more or less) within its own framework. KOTCS has all the problems A.R. McVintage listed. (Plus more, but I'll shush for now.)

But if you liked KOTCS, I'm not here to stop you. I know *I* hate plenty of supposedly "classic" films and prefer cheesier ones!

Oh, and one other element that contributed to the feeling of strangeness: They came up with a new nickname for Indiana Jones! "Jonesyyyy!" This is a perfect example of something that makes perfect, logical sense, but fails to deliver on film. Logically, an old buddy would have a unique name for him, but we're not used to this name. We want "Indy". We want a semblance of familiarity. Instead we get a strange new character and a strange new nickname.

And lots of bantery "back story" that we never get to see only hear about. Wich made me mad..."Oh remember the time when blah blah"
"well if you made a movie about it prior to KOTCS maybe I would"

 

[Doh!]

He always gets his clothes back. He shouldn't of had them after Raiders, and he shouldn't of had them in Raiders because technically ToD happens first. It's the movies.

Well, the clothes weren't radiated (eradiated? anyway, full of radiation) in the other movies. And who's to say he didn't buy replacement hats and jackets between movies? If you're going to argue that in this movie, they're supposed to be different articles of clothing after the bomb blast, they sure got weathered awfully quick.

And not directed at you, jake, but here's another thing that bugged me: before the bomb blast, the rocketsled propelled Indy away from the Area 51 warehouse... but not that far. Immediately afterwards, the town goes *BOOM!* Are they insinuating that the Gov't just blew up the warehouse -- including the Ark of the Covenant? And if the Russians hadn't already killed the guards at the gate, wouldn't they have been killed by the blast?

Also, if there was a planned A-bomb test, where were the scientists/military folk monitoring the blast? I tell you, this movie has more holes in it than a Swiss cheese sandwich.

 

[A.R. McVintage]

Also, if there was a planned A-bomb test, where were the scientists/military folk monitoring the blast? I tell you, this movie has more holes in it than a Swiss cheese sandwich.

You're not supposed to question:

The fact that after the four-man crack-security team get killed (really? Only four men guarding a highly sensitive military base?lol ) the bomb people would just continue with their test and not wonder why four guards never reported back even though the movie starts in the evening of one day and the blast is in the beginning of the next.

Or the fact that the rocket sled presumably got atomized, too.

Or that the men monitoring the test (who never got antsy about four men just never returning to barracks) also ignore the cars driving all over the testing range.

Or the fact that Indy discovers there's no running water in the fake house, yet goes outside to see sprinklers working everywhere.