How many new jackets do you have coming (and how many potential ones)?

[red devil]

Ok I checked what the rules are for exports from UK to EU from 1st of January 2021 (today):


“VAT on exports
As of 1 January 2021, when it comes to exporting goods to EU countries, the VAT situation also changes. Exports to EU countries are treated like those to non-EU countries, which is to say, they should be zero-rated for UK VAT.”

link: https://www.sage.com/en-gb/blog/customs-and-vat-after-brexit/amp/

That is pretty much it as far as I am aware, will be testing this out soon with an order from a European site

 

[Imuricecreamman]

Were you charged by this Pitney Bowes limited **** company?

https://www.thefedoralounge.com/threads/ebay-arghh.97436/page-13#post-2708623

Yes, sir... Call me a sucker cause I've done it several times.

 

[dannyk]

On a personal sales note what I’ve started doing if people outside the US (where I am based) are interested in something I’m selling I will split shipping costs. With Brexit and America’s Trade Wars (which this is not the place for the politics of any of that) shipping and taxes have become exorbitant. I personally feel that location should not be an impediment to someone owning something they want. So I’ll put used/old in the description, put a lower value, and put them in old or beat up boxes, and like I said split the shipping. Does it solve all shipping or tax issues? Nope. But it’s literally the least I can do to try and help my fellow TFL members catch a break.

 

[Blackadder]

That ***** and I don’t think it is right. Double taxation is never right.

Anyway, take for example one of the largest online stores in the EU of denim/heritage clothing, German based Cultzim.com. Price for outside of the EU customers are clearly quoted ex 19% German VAT. That is how I would expect things to work to and from the UK.

To my knowledge, Aero, Eastman and Lewis Leather charges overseas (non EU) customers the same price as British customers which presumably means the VAT is included in the price and will not be deducted. My understanding after reading Aero's response on VLJ is that 1) their price is much higher at their overseas dealers say like Japan therefore 2) they in effect absorbed the VAT (paying out of their own pocket) for local British hence their listed price does not (in their mind) include VAT and 3) that the return and exchange costs from overseas justify it.
Lewis Leather at least waives the overseas shipping to compensate for not deducting the VAT. Aero charges a flat rate of GBP50 (that is a few years ago) no matter what you purchase (shipping of my ANJ4 costs the same as my A-2 but I have never tried ordering say a dozen jackets from them in one order). I guess that reduce Aero's admin cost so they can offer the same bargain price in stead of raising their prices like Eastman and LL.
Not all Japanese shops offer VAT free shopping but most of those who are willing to ship overseas do offer VAT free or a discount that is close to the equivalent of the 10% VAT.

 

[Imuricecreamman]

To my knowledge, Aero, Eastman and Lewis Leather charges overseas (non EU) customers the same price as British customers which presumably means the VAT is included in the price and will not be deducted. My understanding after reading Aero's response on VLJ is that 1) their price is much higher at their overseas dealers say like Japan therefore 2) they in effect absorbed the VAT (paying out of their own pocket) for local British hence their listed price does not (in their mind) include VAT and 3) that the return and exchange costs from overseas justify it.
Lewis Leather at least waives the overseas shipping to compensate for not deducting the VAT. Aero charges a flat rate of GBP50 (that is a few years ago) no matter what you purchase (shipping of my ANJ4 costs the same as my A-2 but I have never tried ordering say a dozen jackets from them in one order). I guess that reduce Aero's admin cost so they can offer the same bargain price in stead of raising their prices like Eastman and LL.
Not all Japanese shops offer VAT free shopping but most of those who are willing to ship overseas do offer VAT free or a discount that is close to the equivalent of the 10% VAT.

I can certainly understand the rationale behind the practice and I have a feeling they might have to raise their prices if they had to adhere strictly to this now that they are outside the EU as I'm sure a lot more people Will be asking them this. Maybe Even as high as 20-30% to mitigate the cost and effort involved.

 

[Carlos840]

On a personal sales note what I’ve started doing if people outside the US (where I am based) are interested in something I’m selling I will split shipping costs. With Brexit and America’s Trade Wars (which this is not the place for the politics of any of that) shipping and taxes have become exorbitant. I personally feel that location should not be an impediment to someone owning something they want. So I’ll put used/old in the description, put a lower value, and put them in old or beat up boxes, and like I said split the shipping. Does it solve all shipping or tax issues? Nope. But it’s literally the least I can do to try and help my fellow TFL members catch a break.

Be careful with declaring lower value when shipping to the EU.
The parcel can be stopped by customs, and they can ask the receiver of the parcel for a proof of payment that matches the declared value.
It has happened to me twice, once in the UK, once in Belgium.
Luckily both times the declared value was accurate and i could send them a proof of payment, but i have heard of people not having proof and the item being sent back to the the seller or confiscated.

If i ask a seller to declare a lower value i will also pay in two separate payments so that i have an invoice/payment slip that matches the lower declared value... (like if something i buy is worth $1000 i'll split it in two 500$ payments and ask the seller to declare the value as being $500)

 

[ABCD]

Be careful with declaring lower value when shipping to the EU.
The parcel can be stopped by customs, and they can ask the receiver of the parcel for a proof of payment that matches the declared value.
It has happened to me twice, once in the UK, once in Belgium.
Luckily both times the declared value was accurate and i could send them a proof of payment, but i have heard of people not having proof and the item being sent back to the the seller or confiscated.

If i ask a seller to declare a lower value i will also pay in two separate payments so that i have an invoice/payment slip that matches the lower declared value... (like if something i buy is worth $1000 i'll split it in two 500$ payments and ask the seller to declare the value as being $500)

What if the seller declared it as a gift?
Let's say my aunt across the pond sends a jacket to me. There is no financial transaction and therefore I don't have prove of payment. Would customs confiscate the jacket?

 

[Carlos840]

What if the seller declared it as a gift?
Let's say my aunt across the pond sends a jacket to me. There is no financial transaction and therefore I don't have prove of payment. Would customs confiscate the jacket?

Gift makes no difference, in the Uk for example:

"Goods sent as a gift that are over £39 in value are liable to Import VAT. Customs Duty also becomes payable if the value of the goods is over £135."

Edit: in Belgium the max value for a tax free gift is 150eur. If you refuse to pay import tax on a gift the package is sent back or destroyed.

 

[Mich486]

Another reason is that the insurance also just covers the declared value normally. So if it gets lost the sender can only claim back the amount declared. Shops will normally refuse to do that for this reason.

(Also it’s technically illegal to lower the declared value )

 

[dannyk]

Be careful with declaring lower value when shipping to the EU.
The parcel can be stopped by customs, and they can ask the receiver of the parcel for a proof of payment that matches the declared value.
It has happened to me twice, once in the UK, once in Belgium.
Luckily both times the declared value was accurate and i could send them a proof of payment, but i have heard of people not having proof and the item being sent back to the the seller or confiscated.

If i ask a seller to declare a lower value i will also pay in two separate payments so that i have an invoice/payment slip that matches the lower declared value... (like if something i buy is worth $1000 i'll split it in two 500$ payments and ask the seller to declare the value as being $500)

Let me say I’ve never done this just on my own. Only if the buyer and I talk. So they know the risks as well. That’s also why I use an old or blemished box. In the hopes they see used boots and a ****py looking box and assume yeah that looks right. But yeah to be clear I’ve never just done that without the buyer asking or me asking. I wouldn’t want to be responsible for any shenanigans. So far never had any buyer have an issue with it.

 

[dannyk]

Another reason is that the insurance also just covers the declared value normally. So if it gets lost the sender can only claim back the amount declared. Shops will normally refuse to do that for this reason.

(Also it’s technically illegal to lower the declared value )

Yeah I’ve worried about the value. But thankfully I’ve never had anything lost on its way to me or anything I’ve ever sent. And at this point that’s a lot. And if I put lower value I do it to a semi reasonable amount. It’s not like I’m going to sell a 1,000 dollar jacket and put like 10 bucks ha.

 

[MrProper]

Ok I checked what the rules are for exports from UK to EU from 1st of January 2021 (today):


“VAT on exports
As of 1 January 2021, when it comes to exporting goods to EU countries, the VAT situation also changes. Exports to EU countries are treated like those to non-EU countries, which is to say, they should be zero-rated for UK VAT.”

link: https://www.sage.com/en-gb/blog/customs-and-vat-after-brexit/amp/

I wrote to Holly and asked how Aero is dealing with the consequences of Brexit. Let's see what she answers.
Customs should not apply due to the UK / EU trade agreement, but import sales tax should. If Aero does not offset the VAT, then the price in the EU should remain roughly the same.

 

[Graemsay]

The other option would be to order an Aero jacket from a dealer based in the EU. Kentaurus in Cologne is the only one I know of, but I'm sure that there are others.

The Brexit deal was agreed at pretty much the last possible minute, so businesses are going to need some time to adjust.

 

[ABCD]

The other option would be to order an Aero jacket from a dealer based in the EU. Kentaurus in Cologne is the only one I know of, but I'm sure that there are others.

Those dealers charge a markup of a couple of hundred euro's.

 

[Blackadder]

Those dealers charge a markup of a couple of hundred euro's.

That's why Aero claims that they pay the VAT out of their own pocket on local sale i.e. the website listed price on their website does not (in their mind) include the VAT.

 

[MrProper]

That's why Aero claims that they pay the VAT out of their own pocket on local sale i.e. the website listed price on their website does not (in their mind) include the VAT.

Yes, the website prices include VAT. When I buy directly from Aero, I get an invoice with VAT that corresponds to the price on the website. I.e. the prices on the website are gross prices including VAT

 

[ABCD]

Yes, the website prices include VAT. When I buy directly from Aero, I get an invoice with VAT that corresponds to the price on the website. I.e. the prices on the website are gross prices including VAT
View attachment 297193

I can confirm. This one is from a couple of years ago. Bought directly from Aero. Also includes VAT.

 

[Mich486]

Jeez this has been a long running issue... see this thread from 2012.

https://www.thefedoralounge.com/thr...undisclosed-upcharge-on-overseas-sales.65401/

I find it a bizzarre way of dealing with international sales. It is discriminatory pricing.

 

[ABCD]

Although you can't substitute an Aero or Eastman for a Thedi in terms of style, in terms of bang for buck Thedi will become the clear winner.

That is if Aero and Eastman don't change their unfair VAT policies. Which I think is unlikely because it will cost them a lot of business.

 

[MrProper]

I almost can't imagine Aero stays with this line of reasoning. Because with the trade agreement after Brexit, some EU rules still apply. Strictly speaking, it should also be possible to get the VAT back in other ways, provided this is shown on the invoice. I would definitely not buy another Aero if I was double taxed. Out of principle ;-)
But I'm confident I will get positive news from Aero when the holidays are over.