Horween USA and Aero Leather Joint Statement

[Grayland]

There's no reason the machinists would necessarily be involved, as they would simply put together what was given to them and would neither know nor care what the buyer ordered.

If any machinists left a month or two ago, then that may (or may not) have been coincidence.

Wouldn't they know when they sewed the FQHH label into the lining of the jacket?

 

[dmdmorris]

I just found out that my new Aero Half Belt is Steer hide, not Horse hide. But I don't care. In fact, after I sampled the horse hide and actually compared it to my Steer hide, IMO the Steer beat the hell out of the Horse hide in terms of weight, feel, look, texture etc.. Maybe it's just me. Originally I was convinced that the Horse hide was superior, I'm not so sure now. Just one man's opinion.

Now feel free to beat on me.

Dave

 

[wdw]

Wouldn't they know when they sewed the FQHH label into the lining of the jacket?

I admit I'm being generous there, but given how hard it is to tell the difference, maybe they couldn't tell. That will no doubt be their defence if they get dragged into court.

It must have seemed such easy money a few months ago.

 

[IXL]

It is my understanding that horse hide was once so popular mainly because it was cheap and plentiful prior to the automobile era, a time when horses and carts were used extensively. It was used in more easily afforded lower cost jackets. Now, horse hide is an in-demand material because of it's relative scarcity, the fact that it harkens back to an earlier time, and that it is harder to work with for those producing the garments. This being said, I'm going to order an Aero D-pocket jacket, in horse hide.
Just another mans opinion.
Please feel free to beat on Dave.

 

[Unwissender]

I do not understand the motive that such a thing has made
They're all just been employees .....
If it has but only in the company saves money and it is not too much

 

[caffeinated]

You are exactly right, we just don't know. At first we thought it was only within the last year, but now it seems that probably isn't the case. We really do not know how long this has been going on for.

As I've said, and many others have said, if you are in doubt please email me. I'm doing my very best to answer everyone as quickly as possible, but as Van pointed out, we are snowed under with normal work as well as trying to handle this current situation, so I'm sorry if anyone has been left waiting, but if thats the case feel free to email me again. All photos need close investigation, and time with Ken to do this is at a premium. Combined with me currently having no out of hours internet access til early next week, this is causing a further slight delay.

Thank you. This is the answer to my question. It could have been going on for years. That's a bummer. I wish you all the luck in the world getting through this.

You won't be seeing my jacket, I believe it's all horse. Even if it's not, and this situation introduced a doubt, it's what I had in mind when I bought it. I wouldn't rule out buying another Aero in the future, but I think I'm a little more upset about this than others around here, so I won't swear to buying one like some have.

Again, thanks for being upfront and good luck.

 

[dmdmorris]

It is my understanding that horse hide was once so popular mainly because it was cheap and plentiful prior to the automobile era, a time when horses and carts were used extensively. It was used in more easily afforded lower cost jackets. Now, horse hide is an in-demand material because of it's relative scarcity, the fact that it harkens back to an earlier time, and that it is harder to work with for those producing the garments. This being said, I'm going to order an Aero D-pocket jacket, in horse hide.
Just another mans opinion.
Please feel free to beat on Dave.

IXL VERY VERY funny. lmao !
Enjoy the Aero D pocket and don't forget to post some pics when you get the jacket.

Dave

 

[too much coffee]

This is why I would like to see this thread continue...........perhaps I too, can learn how to tell the difference between heavy steer and FQHH through Aero customer submitted pictures.

 

[AtlantaSpike]

I collect vintage guitars, where this has been an issue for many years. The value of threads like these, in my experience, is that they help memorialize the things to look for in a publicly available place, as opposed to a reply to an individual. Keeping brand equity is important, as trading on the secondary market still has a definable impact on brand loyalty. I would think it's in both the best interest of both consumers and the manufacturer for information on how, if possible, to determine jacket material, and the manufacturers' response to the issue to be as broadly disseminated as possible, and fora like this are a great place to do just that. What would be even nicer, is that after the dust has settled, someone could synopsize the issues, mitigation steps, and "things to look for" in a sticky in some appropriate place.

Just my 2 cents.

 

[Lungomare]

There's no reason the machinists would necessarily be involved, as they would simply put together what was given to them and would neither know nor care what the buyer ordered.

(...)

A machinist sewing a jacket from steerhide and put in the label "Genuine Front Quarter Horsehide" must have known what the customer had ordered ...

 

[majormajor]

I collect vintage guitars, where this has been an issue for many years. The value of threads like these, in my experience, is that they help memorialize the things to look for in a publicly available place, as opposed to a reply to an individual. Keeping brand equity is important, as trading on the secondary market still has a definable impact on brand loyalty. I would think it's in both the best interest of both consumers and the manufacturer for information on how, if possible, to determine jacket material, and the manufacturers' response to the issue to be as broadly disseminated as possible, and fora like this are a great place to do just that. What would be even nicer, is that after the dust has settled, someone could synopsize the issues, mitigation steps, and "things to look for" in a sticky in some appropriate place.

Just my 2 cents.

I too collect old guitars, my friend. And yes, there are similar threads on guitar sites that are just as ham-fisted as this one. All they usually do is devalue instruments because someone spreads panic about this or that detail.

Here is a VERY GOOD reason why this thread should be closed:

the makers and the cutter, they all must have known that steer is sold as horse. They obviously were in cahoots with Will & Amanda.

Now, bear in mind that the original post, at the beginning of this thread, mentions ONE person. NOT TWO. But now the "lynch mob" can involve anyone they wish, and make completely unsubstantiated claims. And it then stays there for everyone to read.

And given that many on here, rather than reading the whole thread, will just read the last few posts. then these suppositions become believed.

And that is simply unfair. And why this thread has run its course and needs closing.

Just MY two cents

 

[dr.velociraptor]

There is no real mystery, Horsehide is much more scarce and much more expensive and difficult to procure than Steerhide. This could've lead to a shortage of HH and they just used the steer to keep up with production (this would be my guess) or they could've been trying to skim the difference which seems unlikely as I don't think there is big money in this scam to justify the risk.

Either way it's amazing it could go on at this level for this many years and go unnoticed. I wonder if Horween found out first and forced Aero's hand or vice versa? Pretty intriguing story regardless.

 

[AtlantaSpike]

I too collect old guitars, my friend. And yes, there are similar threads on guitar sites that are just as ham-fisted as this one. All they usually do is devalue instruments because someone spreads panic about this or that detail.

Here is a VERY GOOD reason why this thread should be closed:



Now, bear in mind that the original post, at the beginning of this thread, mentions ONE person. NOT TWO. But now the "lynch mob" can involve anyone they wish, and make completely unsubstantiated claims. And it then stays there for everyone to read.

And given that many on here, rather than reading the whole thread, will just read the last few posts. then these suppositions become believed.

And that is simply unfair. And why this thread has run its course and needs closing.

Just MY two cents

Fair enough, and I certainly agree with the spirit of your post. The genie would appear to be out of the bottle though - let's just hope that folks can look past the pejoratives and speculation when reading.

 

[Equality 7-2521]

...Either way it's amazing it could go on at this level for this many years and go unnoticed. I wonder if Horween found out first and forced Aero's hand or vice versa? Pretty intriguing story regardless.

Very interesting point.

 

[cloudylemonade]

Very interesting point.

We called Horween when we discovered it.

 

[mattp]

Have all the hides come from Horween? It did cross my mind that besides procuring steer in place of horse could horsehides have been sourced from any other tanneries?
I believe the Chronexcel gives a distinctive finish so should be distinguishable, but I'm no expert.

 

[wdw]

the original post, at the beginning of this thread, mentions ONE person. NOT TWO

Actually, one person is named and another's position is mentioned (p3), so that's two. Whether they're guilty and acted alone will be for the courts to decide, but until then we can speculate if such an alleged operation could be limited to two people and some here clearly find that impossible to believe.

 

[caffeinated]

Now, bear in mind that the original post, at the beginning of this thread, mentions ONE person. NOT TWO. But now the "lynch mob" can involve anyone they wish, and make completely unsubstantiated claims. And it then stays there for everyone to read.
Just MY two cents

You are certainly entitled to your opinion. I ask you to take the following into account.

The original post mentioned two people, Will and an un-named cutter, making steer-hide jackets and selling them as horse for just a year. Through the thread we came to find out that jackets had also been made with a mix of horse and steer and sold as horse. Now we are also hearing that whole jackets were made of steer and sold as horse earlier than we were first told. And just one page ago Aero confirmed that they don't know how long this has been going on, possibly for years. If the thread had been closed when people first started asking for it, we wouldn't have this information. Or at best we would all have had to email Aero directly and ask as individuals. Just in the last few pages, this thread has been quite valuable.

 

[Lungomare]

Actually, one person is named and another's position is mentioned (p3), so that's two. Whether they're guilty and acted alone will be for the courts to decide, but until then we can speculate if such an alleged operation could be limited to two people and some here clearly find that impossible to believe.

Thanks for expressing in clear words what I meant!

Johannes

 

[irow]

The more I read the more I feel Aero should have kept quiet on this steerhide passing for horsehide scandal. So now they are going to refund decades worth of jackets because of one man who pocketed the difference in money for all those thousands of jackets? Justice would be having Will arrested and put in prison and have him pay all the refund costs until break-even point, but that is just unlikely. I would like to know what will happen to Will. I guess it would be 10 to 20 years in prison for him if caught and found guilty?