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Horween USA and Aero Leather Joint Statement

Seb Lucas

I'll Lock Up
Messages
7,562
Location
Australia
I've never been aware of this, all I know is we do say we stock 'heavy front quarter horsehide' which is true, but believe me if we knew someone was advertising it as 4oz we'd have discussed it then and there.

If you are concerned, regardless of date, please email me.

Take care with what you say, Holly. Leave that for the courts. This is a public forum and you don't want your words used against you. ;)
 
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andyfalzon

Vendor
Messages
422
Location
europe
there is a much simpler way to distinguish horse from steer and it's neither the size of the skin nor the grain
anyone can do it, without being a cutter or a leather expert
 

Seb Lucas

I'll Lock Up
Messages
7,562
Location
Australia
there is a much simpler way to distinguish horse from steer and it's neither the size of the skin nor the grain
anyone can do it, without being a cutter or a leather expert

Classy Andy. Just walk into all this drama, put it out there and then walk off. You obviously want to build suspense and have us beg you, oh wise sage of leather to reveal your great wisdom.
 
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andyfalzon

Vendor
Messages
422
Location
europe
Suppliers could trick you by selling you something else, but we at Bill Kelso check the horsehides we buy from Italy and they all have the so-called "track of the mane" which is the mark left on the hide after the horse's mane is removed. It is visible at both sides of the hide.

Here it is on the underside shown in red circle

33D - Copy.jpg

and here it is on another hide

33F.jpg
 
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cloudylemonade

A-List Customer
Messages
405
Location
Glasgow
Suppliers could trick you by selling you something else, but we at Bill Kelso check the horsehides we buy from Italy and they all have the so-called "track of the mane" which is the mark left on the hide after the horse's mane is removed. It is visible at both sides of the hide.

Here it is on the underside shown in red circle

View attachment 304

and here it is on another hide

View attachment 305

Thanks anyway Andy, but that isn't going to help us identify jackets really.
 

cuthbert

One of the Regulars
Messages
224
Location
VR
That's interesting, Andy, but not useful for guys who have a complete jacket like me.
 

majormajor

One Too Many
Messages
1,713
Location
UK
So, the $64000 question is "is there such a thing as 4 oz horsehide, and have Aero ever said they use it".....and if THEY didn't say, who did??

First of all, here is a thread on this site, where it is stated by FL members, at least once, that Aero FQHH is 4 oz. So maybe the rumour started here?

http://www.thefedoralounge.com/showthread.php?38817-What-is-the-ounce-weight-of-the-FQHH-Aero-uses&

Second, we have a page from Horween, discussing this very subject, where they do mention HH in weights higher than 3 oz

http://horween.wordpress.com/2010/12/14/by-request-whats-the-difference/

Next, here's a page from a leather suppliers site describing HH in 5/7 oz. So the stuff certainly exists...

http://zackwhite.com/xcart/product.php?productid=20377

And finally, a page explaining that the simple way to gauge the weight is to measure the thickness - i.e 1 oz equals 1/64th of an inch, so multiply the 64ths to get the weight.

http://www.macphersonleather.com/about_leather.htm
 
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wdw

One Too Many
Messages
1,260
Location
Edinburgh
It's interesting that none of the purchasers seemed to notice the difference, especially after all the minutiae regarding grain etc that's gone into on this site. Goat yes, steer no, it seems.

Also very upfront of Aero, as they could easily have swept this under the carpet with the odd individual agreement which would never have seen the light of day. This way, only Aero stand to lose in the short term, with the minimum being presumably refunds of the price differential to unwitting buyers. Long term of course, this can only enhance Aero's reputation for straight dealing, so it's not all bad.

Hopefully those buyers who never noticed and who were presumably happy with their jackets won't insist on expensive returns and rebuilds, adding yet more time on to the already lengthening waiting list.
 

cloudylemonade

A-List Customer
Messages
405
Location
Glasgow
So, the $64000 question is "is there such a thing as 4 oz horsehide, and have Aero ever said they use it".....and if THEY didn't say, who did??

Second, we have a page from Horween, discussing this very subject, where they do mention HH in weights higher than 3 oz

http://horween.wordpress.com/2010/12/14/by-request-whats-the-difference/

Sorry, where I've said horsehide over 3oz doesn't exist I should have clarified front quarter horsehide, which is the only horsehide we stock, besides A-2 horsehide, and the leather in question here.

Horween quotes "The strip (a.k.a. bark strip, russet horsehide strip, natural horsebutt strip, north of cordovan, and others) is thick relative to the front, and typically ranges from 4 – 10 oz, or 1.6 mm to 4 mm."

The Strip, is generally what is used for belts etc, and something we've never bought.
 

majormajor

One Too Many
Messages
1,713
Location
UK
Sorry, where I've said horsehide over 3oz doesn't exist I should have clarified front quarter horsehide, which is the only horsehide we stock, besides A-2 horsehide, and the leather in question here.

Horween quotes "The strip (a.k.a. bark strip, russet horsehide strip, natural horsebutt strip, north of cordovan, and others) is thick relative to the front, and typically ranges from 4 – 10 oz, or 1.6 mm to 4 mm."

The Strip, is generally what is used for belts etc, and something we've never bought.

Hi Holly. My apologies. You are completely right there.

But in this link:


http://www.lostworldsinc.com/Motorcycle_Jacket_Leather_Horsehide_Suburban.htm

Lost Worlds specifically say that their jacket is made from "super heavyweight 4+ oz. horsehide". So I can only imagine that they are using some other part, not the front quarter. Would that make sense? I know you guys are the experts, so hopefully, there is a simple explanation:D
 

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