Himel Bros jacket, 1st winter update

[red devil]

Man, sometimes I feel like it's all a big joke on the consumer lol.

It certainly feels like a joke... but if you think about it, could be delusion.

Imagine this was a Prada or any high-end fashion brand, you would be thinking that it is stupid money, but then you would know that some people will pay a lot for the name. You shrug and move on.

Now you have Himel, relatively unknown in the grand scheme of things, you will not find him in the expensive shopping areas of Milan, Paris, or London. Just with the name "Himel", he will not have much traction, so he adds the term "bespoke" which he has been using successfully for a while. I suspect the hardcore members of his "tribe" will lap it up but still wonder how well it really works. Selling “bespoke” jackets is one thing, selling bespoke hats? What is next?

I guess it’s a case of don’t hate the player, hate the game. If there are people out there willing to spend $175 for a $14 hat….May God Have Mercy On Their Souls.

Exactly this lol

Edit: fixed a sentence

 

[Will Zach]

What can I say.... Vanson doesn't offer bespoke hats lol

View attachment 507399

Smells......... like........... victory.......

 

[himelator]

These I'm actually worried about because they are in stress points (armpits)

I know that this will not outlive me as they say because I've had similar symptoms on a backpack which had holes where the strap connected to the body and they just got larger until they failed.

The holes around the pocket where they missed a stitch just look horrible
View attachment 507085 View attachment 507086 View attachment 507087

 

[himelator]

I will be responding in detail in the next couple of days likely my last post on TFL. I am just finishing some research and images of vintage jackets, other makers etc. Stay tuned for my final TFL post!

 

[Aloysius]

I will be responding in detail in the next couple of days likely my last post on TFL. I am just finishing some research and images of vintage jackets, other makers etc. Stay tuned for my final TFL post!

Okay.

 

[Damon141]

Sadly, I am led to believe that he will not correct the problem, I spoke to Dave through email, and he responded that he would only communicate with me through my chosen complaint platform, the Fedoralounge, I explain to him that I come here for information and advice, and I wish him to respond on the platform in which I ordered, email

And with his post saying that he's going to make one final comment on the Fedoralounge, I can only assume that he does not wish to make this right and thinks the stitching on that jacket is acceptable for his brand name

I'm honestly I'm sure what to do at this point, it took a lot for me to come forward with this because I was frankly embarrassed that I paid so much for a jacket with these kind of flaws, I really didn't know how to handle it

 

[Aloysius]

It's clear that Himel feels that the Lounge is the place where people gather to complain.

Fair enough. It is (for all kinds of makers, from mall to Five Star to Aero to Himel to Real McCoys).

It is also probably the most consistent funnel for customers finding him. Perhaps I'm wrong, but I can't imagine that Damon would have ended up ordering his MTM cafe racer from Himel if he had not been exposed to Himel through this forum. There are also countless people who ordered the Chevalier model through Carlos's TFL posts. It's how I got exposed to the grizzly model that I very much like.

Sure, the server provides a platform for people to check with knowledgeable friends about whether something fits or not, or if there's a manufacturing flaw. It is also a massive source of marketing for leather jacket makers, especially niche ones. It is particularly so for Himel and Field (across the board), for Johnson (among non-Bay Area natives), for Vanson (among non-American motorcyclists).

And before you say I'm only talking about glowing reviews, I got into Schott and started exploring their jackets precisely because people used to speak so dismissively about them on the Lounge. So negative comments will have that effect too.

 

[Damon141]

It's clear that Himel feels that the Lounge is the place where people gather to complain.

Fair enough. It is (for all kinds of makers, from mall to Five Star to Aero to Himel to Real McCoys).

It is also probably the most consistent funnel for customers finding him. Perhaps I'm wrong, but I can't imagine that Damon would have ended up ordering his MTM cafe racer from Himel if he had not been exposed to Himel through this forum. There are also countless people who ordered the Chevalier model through Carlos's TFL posts. It's how I got exposed to the grizzly model that I very much like.

Sure, the server provides a platform for people to check with knowledgeable friends about whether something fits or not, or if there's a manufacturing flaw. It is also a massive source of marketing for leather jacket makers, especially niche ones. It is particularly so for Himel and Field (across the board), for Johnson (among non-Bay Area natives), for Vanson (among non-American motorcyclists).

And before you say I'm only talking about glowing reviews, I got into Schott and started exploring their jackets precisely because people used to speak so dismissively about them on the Lounge. So negative comments will have that effect too.

Fedora Lounge is how I found out about Himel Brothers.


In business problems arise, it's how you handle them that matters.

 

[Jasonindenver]

I hope Himel views this as an opportunity to refine his manufacturing and QC process. I also hope he realizes that people like me would not even know he exists had it not been for this forum. I mean, hell, how does anyone find out about a jacket maker in Greece for heavens sake. Yet I currently have one on order. Himel was to be the next step but not so sure now.

Dave, I sure hope you take a night to sleep on the next move. Lots of people here support you.

I tend not to do business with companies that view the end user as part of their quality control for items that are intended to be a step above. For that reason, I stopped buying Allen Edmonds years ago. I am always open to supporting small business but they cannot take me for granted. Period.

Himel will still be on my radar for another purchase in a couple of years if the resolution of this matter and future results reflect what they have been known for previously.

 

[Monitor]

You all done now. R.I.P. TFL.

 

[red devil]

It's clear that Himel feels that the Lounge is the place where people gather to complain.

Yes, and generally, it is more of the place when people ask for help. Quite often people don't know if whatever they noticed is a defect or part of the product. And they generally get some feedback. It can be mixed, but in cases as clear cut as this, it tends to be unequivocal.

Of course, there have been cases where a brand is disliked by a certain number of members for whatever reason, but this is not the case with Himel. It was put on a pedestal, and then that view was corrected... a problem for Himel. He was basking in the easy and not always earned praise, and now he finds it difficult to be called out for his bad practices.

I tend not to do business with companies that view the end user as part of their quality control for items that are intended to be a step above. For that reason, I stopped buying Allen Edmonds years ago. I am always open to supporting small business but they cannot take me for granted. Period.

Exactly my thoughts! I hate being taken for granted.

Let's see what comes next.

 

[MrProper]

Quite often people don't know if whatever they noticed is a defect or part of the product.

I think the ugly seam belongs like this.
It's a "I'm making the jacket exactly as I saw it 100 years ago" thing. (Of course, I doubt that the work was done so sloppily in the past.)
Comparable to cut-off epaulettes.
Authenticity counts.

 

[Marc mndt]

I think the ugly seam belongs like this.
It's a "I'm making the jacket exactly as I saw it 100 years ago" thing. (Of course, I doubt that the work was done so sloppily in the past.)
Comparable to cut-off epaulettes.
Authenticity counts.

The difference being, 100 years ago leather jackets were workwear or they had the purpose of protecting the wearer on his motorcycle or when flying an aeroplane. In 1938 a leather Sears Hercules jacket cost $8 which is $185 in today's money (average 4% yearly inflation). These jackets weren't luxury goods that cost a monthly salary.

Today's repro jackets are luxury goods and we assess them as such. Different purpose, different quality measures.

 

[ton312]

I was frankly embarrassed

It’s not you who should be embarrassed.

 

[Damon141]

I really don't see how gathering pictures of other jackets is going to resolve this

Here are his own words, words I listed to

Then you can only take his email as him trying to punish me for asking the forum if my jacket was stitched normal
It's a simple matter of telling your team how a jacket is to look when they ship it off

 

[Canuck Panda]

Look, you pinned him in a corner now and it's mostly fight and flight response with a dash of freeze, and a lot of coliseum cheers to keep this going past the bell rings. If this continues there be no winners.

Fact is, all the stitching flaws are sloppy back locking stitches. Instead of going slower to lock the thread in, they were mostly rushed. The rest of the machine job does look decent, from a skilled machinist. But it looked like he/she took less time to make your jacket than usual. There is no issue with structural, just very sloppy and rushed machining job.

The worst part is the excuse for this mistake, trying to dig himself out of the hole by using the "vintages were made like this" excuse. While it is true a lot of vintage jackets has shitty stitchings, there are also just as many vintage jackets that has excellent machining jobs.

The excuses comes from the basic human reaction to fear. If he admits his mistakes, then he has to give you a remake or refund. Worse, what if others with similar experience comes forward it could have devastating financial impact to his business. On the other hand, now that this is out in the public, it is already damaging his brand. So either way he gets fucked, sooner or later.

If I guess correctly, all Damon wants is a remake or a refund right? And all Himel wants is to protect his brand and minimize his potential financial losses right? This thread will get neither of you what you truly want. Take this fight privately, there is no ticket sales from this public show. If and when private communication don't get you what you want, then crucify him in public as retaliation. Going Defcon 5 on his ass now seems a little too soon. The main objective is to get a remake or refund with a dash of sincere apology. Pushing him into the corners too soon will get you non of these. This is also the truth. As much as I am enjoying the free show, I also want you to get your money/jacket and an apology from him.

 

[Damon141]

Take this fight privately, there is no ticket sales from this public show. If and when private communication don't get you what you want,

he said he will not respond to the emails

Exact words:

"your response will be through your chosen complaint platform. I will be having it edited first


dh"

I told him that was not my chosen platform because I did indeed order through Email.

This is like leaving a review on Amazon and contacting the seller and they say they will only speak to you through Amazon reviews

 

[Observe]

It's unprofessional of him and I feel for you, but this probably would have worked out more in your favour if you had kept this between you and him at first. His feelings are hurt now and he's going to lash out accordingly. Not justifying it, just explaining how I see it playing out. We've all put out feelers here when it comes to various concerns pertaining to the quality of an item of clothing, so I can't even say you did something wrong, hell I've done the very same.

 

[Daniel Veit]

Look, you pinned him in a corner now and it's mostly fight and flight response with a dash of freeze, and a lot of coliseum cheers to keep this going past the bell rings. If this continues there be no winners.

Fact is, all the stitching flaws are sloppy back locking stitches. Instead of going slower to lock the thread in, they were mostly rushed. The rest of the machine job does look decent, from a skilled machinist. But it looked like he/she took less time to make your jacket than usual. There is no issue with structural, just very sloppy and rushed machining job.

The worst part is the excuse for this mistake, trying to dig himself out of the hole by using the "vintages were made like this" excuse. While it is true a lot of vintage jackets has shitty stitchings, there are also just as many vintage jackets that has excellent machining jobs.

The excuses comes from the basic human reaction to fear. If he admits his mistakes, then he has to give you a remake or refund. Worse, what if others with similar experience comes forward it could have devastating financial impact to his business. On the other hand, now that this is out in the public, it is already damaging his brand. So either way he gets fucked, sooner or later.

If I guess correctly, all Damon wants is a remake or a refund right? And all Himel wants is to protect his brand and minimize his potential financial losses right? This thread will get neither of you what you truly want. Take this fight privately, there is no ticket sales from this public show. If and when private communication don't get you what you want, then crucify him in public as retaliation. Going Defcon 5 on his ass now seems a little too soon. The main objective is to get a remake or refund with a dash of sincere apology. Pushing him into the corners too soon will get you non of these. This is also the truth. As much as I am enjoying the free show, I also want you to get your money/jacket and an apology from him.

Wisely spoken!

 

[Damon141]

I agree but this is business and he is not handling it professionally. You can't let emotions dictate how you handle customers.
Its inexcusable to say that you will not respond to emails because I left an unfavorable review, customers are allowed to do that

I do not want a refund, I just want him to remake my jacket properly as he advertises. That's why I took screenshots of those YouTube videos, they clearly tell you what you should expect from a Himel Bros jacket.

I'll leave this thread alone and wait for his reply.