Hat making?? Learning Millinery..

[T Jones]

I have a set of vintage 810's marked 2 5/8 but can take it out to 2 7/8" or down to 2 1/2" with no major issues. 2 1/4" are too narrow and i get zero cupping but luckily i only have received 1 order for that narrow a brim.

I'd like to find a 2 5/8 810 in a 7 1/4. I've got some 510s, which are basically the same as 810s, but I don't use them much.

 

[ChicagoWayVito]

Decided to order myself what will be a late Christmas book. I recently came across a book first published in 1981 called: From the Neck Up: An Illustrated Guide to Hatmaking. Supposed to arrive mid-January, this is a millinery book but just looking to pick up a few techniques. I wanted the spiral-bound version but the only one I found was on Amazon for way too much money, so I ordered the paperback version.

View attachment 290536

Website: From the Neck Up: An Illustrated Guide to Hatmaking (hatbook.com)

Below is the table of contents of the book, the bolded items in the TOC are the areas of particular interest to me. Really curious as to the differences in brim binding between men's and women's hats.

Table of Contents
The Preface
The Lessons

• Designing the Hat
  
  
• Materials and Equipment
  
  
• Stitches and Techniques
  
  
• Designing the Pattern
  
  
• Constructing the Foundation
  
  
• Covering the Shape
  
  
• Facing Brims and Binding Edges
  
  
• Trimming the Hat
  
  
• Finishing the Interior
  
  
• Working with Felt
  
  
• Working with Straw
  
  
• Making a Headblock
  
  
• Draping a Turban
  
  
• Renovations and Alterations

Received the book From The Neck Up today. Some things of interest that I found after some initial perusing:

1. Petersham is also called Millinery Grosgrain, this might account for some confusion on custom orders when customer asks for grosgrain expecting to get a woven edge ribbon but end up with the scallop/saw-tooth edge. Regardless, you want 50% of the fiber content to be cotton for "circling".

2. Circling is the millinery word for swirling ribbon. Circling will make one edge of the ribbon slightly larger than the other; the degree of difference should correspond to the angle of the crown. Ribbon should be at least 50% cotton; synthetics cannot be circled.

3. Provides a "Master Oval Pattern" with instructions on how to size up or down.

4. Brim binding. Use of stretching ribbon over a ribbon disc or a plate is interesting. This book doesn't use the closed loop method but rather using the stretched ribbon that is 4 - 6 inches longer and you pin the binding in place every inch or so, then trim to length after folding under the tails. Provided the ribbon is placed well then you can hand sew or use a machine, if using a machine then basting prior is recommended.

RB1 – Ribbon Board – Guy Morse-Brown Hat Blocks

So far the book is interesting and is worth my $30

 

[ChicagoWayVito]

Received the book From The Neck Up today. Some things of interest that I found after some initial perusing:

1. Petersham is also called Millinery Grosgrain, this might account for some confusion on custom orders when customer asks for grosgrain expecting to get a woven edge ribbon but end up with the scallop/saw-tooth edge. Regardless, you want 50% of the fiber content to be cotton for "circling".

2. Circling is the millinery word for swirling ribbon. Circling will make one edge of the ribbon slightly larger than the other; the degree of difference should correspond to the angle of the crown. Ribbon should be at least 50% cotton; synthetics cannot be circled.

3. Provides a "Master Oval Pattern" with instructions on how to size up or down.

4. Brim binding. Use of stretching ribbon over a ribbon disc or a plate is interesting. This book doesn't use the closed loop method but rather using the stretched ribbon that is 4 - 6 inches longer and you pin the binding in place every inch or so, then trim to length after folding under the tails. Provided the ribbon is placed well then you can hand sew or use a machine, if using a machine then basting prior is recommended.

RB1 – Ribbon Board – Guy Morse-Brown Hat Blocks

So far the book is interesting and is worth my $30

Pages 109 - 111 has a good description on Linings (Drawstring, fitted, and tailored). The fitted has pleating in it and it discusses well how to make the 3 types. I know several of us on here have made linings by deconstructing linings but this gives the knowledge on how to make them without a pattern from a deconstructed lining. There isn't much in the way of illustrations but the text describes it well enough.

 

[belfastboy]

Pages 109 - 111 has a good description on Linings (Drawstring, fitted, and tailored). The fitted has pleating in it and it discusses well how to make the 3 types. I know several of us on here have made linings by deconstructing linings but this gives the knowledge on how to make them without a pattern from a deconstructed lining. There isn't much in the way of illustrations but the text describes it well enough.

Hmmmm, this alone might justify the $30

 

[belfastboy]

Received the book From The Neck Up today. Some things of interest that I found after some initial perusing:

1. Petersham is also called Millinery Grosgrain, this might account for some confusion on custom orders when customer asks for grosgrain expecting to get a woven edge ribbon but end up with the scallop/saw-tooth edge. Regardless, you want 50% of the fiber content to be cotton for "circling".

2. Circling is the millinery word for swirling ribbon. Circling will make one edge of the ribbon slightly larger than the other; the degree of difference should correspond to the angle of the crown. Ribbon should be at least 50% cotton; synthetics cannot be circled.

3. Provides a "Master Oval Pattern" with instructions on how to size up or down.

4. Brim binding. Use of stretching ribbon over a ribbon disc or a plate is interesting. This book doesn't use the closed loop method but rather using the stretched ribbon that is 4 - 6 inches longer and you pin the binding in place every inch or so, then trim to length after folding under the tails. Provided the ribbon is placed well then you can hand sew or use a machine, if using a machine then basting prior is recommended.

RB1 – Ribbon Board – Guy Morse-Brown Hat Blocks

So far the book is interesting and is worth my $30

I would love to buy Guy M-B blocks but they are pricey. I bought 2 sizes of his block springs to use instead of cording. They work very well and have ordered a complete set....56cm up to 62cm.

 

[belfastboy]

Pages 109 - 111 has a good description on Linings (Drawstring, fitted, and tailored). The fitted has pleating in it and it discusses well how to make the 3 types. I know several of us on here have made linings by deconstructing linings but this gives the knowledge on how to make them without a pattern from a deconstructed lining. There isn't much in the way of illustrations but the text describes it well enough.

The best price I can find is $60 Canadian with shipping....back to thinking about it!

 

[ChicagoWayVito]

The best price I can find is $60 Canadian with shipping....back to thinking about it!

You might try from these two:

From the Neck Up: An Illustrated Guide to Hatmaking by Denise Dreher - Paperback - 1981 - from Madhatter Press (SKU: 6001) (biblio.com)

Amazon.com: Buying Choices: From the Neck Up: An Illustrated Guide to Hatmaking (MadHatter-Press is the seller that I used)

Cheers!

 

[ChicagoWayVito]

I would love to buy Guy M-B blocks but they are pricey. I bought 2 sizes of his block springs to use instead of cording. They work very well and have ordered a complete set....56cm up to 62cm.

Thanks for letting us know, I had wondered about those.

I ordered two garter springs to use on flanges, they aren't plastic or rubber coated like the Guy M-B block springs but since flanging uses a cloth they don't need to be. I will report back on the springs I ordered and if they work well or not. JW flanged with springs and I did like that flexibility.

 

[belfastboy]

Thanks for letting us know, I had wondered about those.

I ordered two garter springs to use on flanges, they aren't plastic or rubber coated like the Guy M-B block springs but since flanging uses a cloth they don't need to be. I will report back on the springs I ordered and if they work well or not. JW flanged with springs and I did like that flexibility.

I like using the cords to block but I have found with stiff/thick felts, particularly western weight or refurbing westerns where I am trying to get more crown/less brim the cords can be difficult to work over the break where he felt puckers. The cords will slip out of tension where as the springs stay taut and it is a bit easier to muscle them over the puckers.

 

[ChicagoWayVito]

With special thanks to @mayserwegener for his permission in allowing me to repost links to hat bow examples from Panizza Hats. About 2-1/2 years ago, he posted these 6 images which show great examples of hat bows and he provided links to high resolution images. This past week I finally got around to editing the images a bit. I changed the angle so that it appears that they were taken straight on, then I cropped them a bit further. If I can figure out how to remove highlights and shadows then I will do that work too.

For now they are posted in my OneDrive location, the files are large so they will load progressively until you get full resolution. If they look blurry then wait a little bit. Below are some smaller images to view in this post.

Thank you mayserwegener again for the source material and allow for reposting.

 

[mayserwegener]

Kevin, Great job changing the view angle and making the photos more presentable.

 

[belfastboy]

So I am working in my shop this afternoon and my neighbour walks over and asks what am I doing. I tell him my tale of woe not having a flange wide enough to accommodate 3" + brims. He looks at it and says damn, I can make that. Tomorrow we embark on a discovery....can he? I just have to buy the beer.

 

[deadlyhandsome]

So I am working in my shop this afternoon and my neighbour walks over and asks what am I doing. I tell him my tale of woe not having a flange wide enough to accommodate 3" + brims. He looks at it and says damn, I can make that. Tomorrow we embark on a discovery....can he? I just have to buy the beer.

Keep us informed! Who doesn’t love brims over 3 inches?

 

[belfastboy]

Keep us informed! Who doesn’t love brims over 3 inches?

He is a retired guy with time to spare and is excited by the challenge.

 

[humanshoes]

So I am working in my shop this afternoon and my neighbour walks over and asks what am I doing. I tell him my tale of woe not having a flange wide enough to accommodate 3" + brims. He looks at it and says damn, I can make that. Tomorrow we embark on a discovery....can he? I just have to buy the beer.

I'll look forward to seeing his work. I love having friends who can make stuff.

 

[belfastboy]

I'll look forward to seeing his work. I love having friends who can make stuff.

My neighbour is about 80, born on a farm and is the kind of guy that just knows how to make stuff. And the stuff he doesn't know how to make he figures it out. My most used phrase is......"Hey, John how do you............."

 

[belfastboy]

It turns out I am making it under his tutelage. Here are pics of what we have accomplished to date. Laminated 2x8" planks 16" x 14". Tomorrow I will jig saw the rough cut then router it clean. Not sure how we do the slope.. The good news is that I can use the template again, just adjust the block size opening. Finished the flange will be 3 5/8" wide x 62.5cm block. It would be great to do one more to accommodate a 60cm block.

 

[ChicagoWayVito]

Not sure how we do the slope..

Hopefully, with a spokeshave

 

[belfastboy]

Hopefully, with a spokeshave

Yes, I think that is how......and he has a gauge that we can conform to the desired slope as our guide. It should be fun.

 

[BobHufford]

Yes, I think that is how......and he has a gauge that we can conform to the desired slope as our guide. It should be fun.

I hope you take some photos of this process Bob. Thanks for what you have shared so far.