Hand gun ownership in the U.S.

[Harp]

fftopic: -again. What I heard is that the US media chooses only to broadcast "what is important to americans" So obviously Europe and european culture is not important.

Judgment nonobstant veredicto, Spitfire old boy.
America is the daughter of Europe, and Europe; most especially her culture,
is very important to the United States.

 

[Spitfire]

Harp - my friend, I only quoted what I saw on the media. An interview with the editor of CBS news.
Personally I hope it is not so. And I know many americans who has a deep, sincer interest in - not only Europe - but the rest of the world.
Maybe one should start a thread on this subject - but it might be tricky.
Sorry for hijacking the gunthread.

 

[Aaron Hats]

Put me down for four rifles, three handguns, two shotguns and a partridge in a pear tree.

Aaron...in the "Live Free or Die" state.

 

[John in Covina]

Napoleon

This incident was indeed unfortunate. Although I personally favor the right
to bear arms, in this case I thought the homeowner-who shot this kid with
a .357 Magnum revolver outside his home-overreacted to the situation.
Had the homeowner fired a round off to warn, or retreated within his home,
deadly force could probably have been avoided. I believe this matter was decided
under Louisiana law, applying a standard regarding the actor's mindset at the time.

**********
As stated it also must be noted that it occured in Louisiana which operates with more of the Napoleonic Laws, in other states the home owner's actions would not have been considered justified.

 

[John in Covina]

But let me just ask you this - how many Highschoolshootings have you had in US within the last 30 years?
Wanna know how many we have had in Denmark? None.
In Scandinavia? None!!!
I only stated when it's easy too get hold of a gun - it's also easy for the lunatic.

************
Let's ask a question: up until the 1960's many high schools had rifle teams & even on ground shooting ranges. In the rural areas it was not uncommon for a youngster to bring a 22 rifle to school, as they may have the opportunity to take small game on the way home and help feed the family.

Yet there were NO high school shootings then. What has changed, the availabilty of guns was even greater in the past, parents often bought firearms for their youngsters and took them hunting at fairly earlly ages.

It is not the availability of guns but the values that have changed and led to such tragic shootings. When guns were in the majority of homes and carried without restriction these types of shootings were much more rare than now.

Let's not forget the Swiss where nearly every home has an assualt rifle and ammo as part of their national defense, yet we hear of no such shootings there, why is that so?

 

[thunderw21]

************
Let's ask a question say up until the 1960's many high schools had rifle teams& even on ground shooting ranges. In the rural areas it was not uncommon for a youngster to bring a 22 rifle to school, as they may have the opportunity to take small game on the way home and help feed the family.

Yet there were NO high school shootings then. What has changed, the availabilty of guns was even greater in the past, parents often bought firearms for their youngsters and took them hunting at fairly earlly ages.

It is not the availability of guns but the values that have changed and led to such tragic shootings. When guns were in the majority of homes and carried without restriction these types of shootings were much more rare than now.

Let's not forget the Swiss where nearly every home has an assualt rifle and ammo as part of their national defense, yet we hear of no such shootings there, why is that so?

In an attempt to answer your question I agree with LTC Dave Grossman when he states in his book On Killing that a fascination and "demand" for death and killing arose when modern (or post-modern) society removed 'normal' killing and death from everyday life. This includes the slaughtering of animals for food by fathers and sons, caring for the sick and dying in homes and displaying the honored dead in our parlors (this is where funeral parlors or funeral homes get their names). Death has been removed from life, steralizing and creating a view that life itself is unimportant. This creates a demand for killing in people, specifically the youth, that is met by the media in video games, movies, music, etc. This includes a rise in school shootings. Death was once respected, now it is sold like a cheap amenity.

Anyways, that is what I believe is part of the problem, though I think the root of the school shooting trouble is deep down, dealing with the soul and character of humans as opposed to a "supply and demand" model like above.

Grossman wrote a fascinating essay several years ago (entitled "On Sheep, Wolves and Sheepdogs") that deals with the issue of 'good' people with guns and 'bad' people with guns. It can be found at the link below:
http://hobbes.ncsa.uiuc.edu/onsheepwolvesandsheepdogs.html

I truly believe in his synopsis found in this piece and have more or less made it my motto. I don't have a handgun but hope to change that rather soon. Until then I'll continue to carry my knife and will hopefully not have to use it.
Billy

 

[John in Covina]

Grossman wrote a fascinating essay several years ago (entitled "On Sheep, Wolves and Sheepdogs") that deals with the issue of 'good' people with guns and 'bad' people with guns. It can be found at the link below:
http://hobbes.ncsa.uiuc.edu/onsheepwolvesandsheepdogs.html

I truly believe in his synopsis found in this piece and have more or less made it my motto. I don't have a handgun but hope to change that rather soon. Until then I'll continue to carry my knife and will hopefully not have to use it.
Billy

*************
Well done article, it really tries to put into words what are intangeables for many.

 

[Lincsong]

************
Let's ask a question: up until the 1960's many high schools had rifle teams & even on ground shooting ranges. In the rural areas it was not uncommon for a youngster to bring a 22 rifle to school, as they may have the opportunity to take small game on the way home and help feed the family.

Yet there were NO high school shootings then. What has changed, the availabilty of guns was even greater in the past, parents often bought firearms for their youngsters and took them hunting at fairly earlly ages.

It is not the availability of guns but the values that have changed and led to such tragic shootings. When guns were in the majority of homes and carried without restriction these types of shootings were much more rare than now.

Add in into that the drugging of kids on Ritalin and other legal drugs.

The Brits went into China a hundred odd years ago with opium and drugged them into submission. Perhaps if the Chinese populace had guns instead of martial arts skills they could have defended themselves against this invasion instead of saying "oh well, pass the pipe".

Fatdutch had it right, guns are a piece of personal property. They should be treated no differently that owning a television, table, or suit. All of which may be bought legally in a business or illegally out of the trunk of a Pontiac Bonneville.

 

[Story]

The revolvers were French and period correct, I'd have to look up the make and model.

I'll save you the time, bubbi. 1873 Ordnance Revolver.

http://www.gunsworld.com/french/18xx/1873_us.html

Oh yeah - guns scare me...

 

[Miss Brill]

None. No interest in collecting them, and I don't need one for protection, because I think if you have time to get a gun, you have to get a baseball bat, hammer, axe, or knife. I have those.

 

[Maj.Nick Danger]

Caliber 11 millimeter,...hmmm,...very unusual. About a .43 caliber in inches.

 

[John in Covina]

Oh yeah - guns scare me...

***********

Fear of the unknown is natural. You might take a gun safety course to get over that fear.

 

[John in Covina]

I think that's one of the problems, that even though the percentages may be small, the actual numbers are large, and behind those numbers, there are numerous lives that are affected in tragic ways, and that is what makes those who live in societies where guns are banned feel uncomfortable.

*************

Somebody described it as: A few deaths are a tragic, but millions of deaths are a statistic.

 

[Story]

***********
Fear of the unknown is natural. You might take a gun safety course to get over that fear.

Which end do the bullets go in? [huh]

 

[carebear]

A book I recommend to folks from outside the US to understand why straight comparisons of gun statistics aren't the end-all of understanding distinctions in violent crime rates is Kopel's "The Samurai, the Mountie, and the Cowboy: Should America Adopt the Gun Controls of Other Democracies?"

Violent crime has far more to do with significant, underlying cultural issues than it does with weapons availability.

 

[HoosierDaddy]

None. No interest in collecting them, and I don't need one for protection, because I think if you have time to get a gun, you have to get a baseball bat, hammer, axe, or knife. I have those.

Well...learn to throw them with dead accurancy! If the bad guy has a gun..he only needs to look at you and pull a trigger from across the room.:eusa_doh:
HD

 

[HoosierDaddy]

************
Let's ask a question: up until the 1960's many high schools had rifle teams & even on ground shooting ranges. In the rural areas it was not uncommon for a youngster to bring a 22 rifle to school, as they may have the opportunity to take small game on the way home and help feed the family.

Yet there were NO high school shootings then. What has changed, the availabilty of guns was even greater in the past, parents often bought firearms for their youngsters and took them hunting at fairly earlly ages.

It is not the availability of guns but the values that have changed and led to such tragic shootings. When guns were in the majority of homes and carried without restriction these types of shootings were much more rare than now.

Let's not forget the Swiss where nearly every home has an assualt rifle and ammo as part of their national defense, yet we hear of no such shootings there, why is that so?

Good post,John. Dead on the money!
HD

 

[carebear]

None. No interest in collecting them, and I don't need one for protection, because I think if you have time to get a gun, you have to get a baseball bat, hammer, axe, or knife. I have those.

What is this "get a gun" of which you speak? [huh]

If I have on my pants I have on my gun, it's now (after almost 18 years) as much a part of my normal dress as my watch or my shoes...

...and much more convenient to carry than my bat, hammer and axe (though not my pocket knife).

Seriously though, carrying a gun is just like having an insurance policy or a fire extinguisher. Since you can't predict when you might need them, or how much time you'll have to "get" them, you keep them in place all the time and hope you never need to use them.

 

[Pilgrim]

I will admit I haven't read my way through the entire thread - but I will offer some comments.

I fall into the 6-10 category, but I'm not a collector. I have bought a few handgund, including two I carried as a Reserve Deputy from 1977-1985. I love my old duty revolver - an S&W Model 28 Highway Patrolman (4" bbl), but it's a big chunk to carry.

I've inherited two handguns (both .22s), which ran my count over 5. But I do have three handguns in the .38-.357 category.

It happens that I grew up in the west, and received a .22 rifle for my 14th birthday. I've been around firearms since I was small, and was instructed in safe handling before I ever fired one. I also own a number of rifles, my wife also grew up in a family that owned and used firearms, and my oldest daughter asked for a Remington Model 870 pump 12-gauge for goose hunting on her 16th birthday. She got it, and she has used it well. In fact, I just bought a 12-gauge Mossberg pump for my youngest (age 18) daughter at a benefit auction earlier today.

But in many place in the US, there simply isn't any cultural context for recreational firearm use. People don't have families that shoot, and they are not familiar with firearms.

And my hearty vote is that if you don't know how to handle firearms, don't! if all I knew about firearms was that they went boom and hurt people, I'd be scared of them with good reason. That would be a reasonable feeling to have. I think that most in-home injuries due to firearms are simply due to ignorance of handling procedure and resulting disregard for safety.

IMO no one should be allowed to buy a firearm without having first had a thorough safety and familiarization course (I'd let the NRA create it to keep them at peace with the idea). Ignorance is the biggest danger when it comes to firearms handling.

 

[thunderw21]

And my hearty vote is that if you don't know how to handle firearms, don't!

Amen to that. Too many people out there are way too casual with their firearms. I see them all too often at the range.