Hand gun ownership in the U.S.

[Diamondback]

Now now, alcohol and ammo never mix... even though "Alcohol & Ammo" is a very funny Flash cartoon, especially the "Hallucination Remix"... lol

 

[Viola]

Yes! Let's drink some beers and shoot the empty bottles off the back fence! lol
It's our constitutional right, dammit!
(But seriously, I like the discussion here so far, it's just that more voters need to go to the polls,...)

As a person who worked at the polls last election I'd like to say I had no idea there were so many people over the age of 40 who have NO IDEA how a primary works. I mean, they were mad, a lot of them.

Others were worried

Lady: "I just want to vote straight party line! How do I do that?"

Me: "Those are your only choices."

Lady: "Exactly. That's what I want to do!"

Me: "No, I mean all your live buttons are..."

And they say young people don't get involved politically.

-Viola

 

[Trampilot]

Being English, law abiding people have to defend themselves with harsh language and the threat of writing a letter to their Member Of Parliament. The criminals reply with cordite.

Aside from that, I used to do clay pigeon shooting with my dad and we own a few air rifles. The current rules in the UK are quite stupid as I cannot see how a law banning handguns and automatic rifles will stop armed crime (the reason why it was implemented). Since the law was passed armed crime has increased magnificently. Well done Government.

I'm completely at home with the idea that law abiding decent people will use guns responsibly. That is how it should be.

In the coming months I am planning to get back into shooting (with air rifles) as I miss the technical side as much as the art of gunmanship. It all depends on finding somewhere to shoot!

 

[Spitfire]

I dont live in USA. And I don't have a gun.
Never wanted one - never needed one!

Another interesting question was raised earlier on: If you happened to live in a country (like USA) where it was alloved to own and carry a gun, would you then do it?
My first thought was no.

But then again - with all the lunatics with guns walking around, you never know...so I would feel like I had to have a gun.
And maybe that's just the Catch 22 here....[huh]

 

[John in Covina]

I dont live in USA. And I don't have a gun.
Never wanted one - never needed one!

Another interesting question was raised earlier on: If you happened to live in a country (like USA) where it was alloved to own and carry a gun, would you then do it?
My first thought was no.

But then again - with all the lunatics with guns walking around, you never know...so I would feel like I had to have a gun.
And maybe that's just the Catch 22 here....[huh]

**********
So only lunatics carry guns?

 

[LaMedicine]

I dont live in USA. And I don't have a gun.
Never wanted one - never needed one!

Another interesting question was raised earlier on: If you happened to live in a country (like USA) where it was alloved to own and carry a gun, would you then do it?
My first thought was no.

But then again - with all the lunatics with guns walking around, you never know...so I would feel like I had to have a gun.
And maybe that's just the Catch 22 here....[huh]

Same here. But, when I think of travelling in the US alone, driving cross country by myself, and if my car breaks down and I find myself stranded on a lonely strip of road in the middle of nowhere in the middle of the night, well, um, that's another thought ...[huh]

 

[Spitfire]

**********
So only lunatics carry guns?

Absolutely not, John.
But when it's easy to get or buy a handgun - it's also easy for the lunatics.

 

[Fatdutchman]

I'm not a lunatic, but I am one of those horrible Puritanical people!

LaMedicine, you wouldn't have to worry about driving down a lonely strip of road in the middle of nowhere. Chances are pretty good that if anyone else came upon you, they would be most helpful. Now, if you were stranded in the middle of some big city street....

Spitfire, here we see another underlying problem. The presumption of guilt. This should not happen in a free society. No one is guilty of a crime until they are actually guilty of a crime! "Well, you MIGHT do something bad, therefore, we must restrict you in some way". Very, very wrong.

Furthermore, there is a matter of perception. Europeans and others around the world see sensationalized (and extraordinarily biased) news reports about America. One guy robs a bank and they think that we're all going around playing shoot 'em up. One person murders his wife and children and they think "those horrible bloodthirsty gunowning Americans". This, of course, is not the case at all. The last murder in my county that I can think of was 10 years ago or more. We're armed to the teeth around here. Must be something else then...

 

[John in Covina]

Personal Defense or total emasculation?

Here are some questions: do you ordinary honest hard working citizens have a value to society that is higher than those bent on criminal activities?

Does anyone have a right to defend themselves from robbery or attack or do they only have a right to some type of martyrdom?

Here is a cultural difference in that some places in the world a man's home is not his castle, if intruders come in he has to vacate because if he defends his family, home or possessions against attack or robbery he will go to jail.

THat does seem to fit into the total emasculation side and gives what should be seen as an unfair advantge to the criminals. But then again criminals might be seen as disadvatage in the lot of life so maybe the bug out defense is suppose to make up for it.

 

[Feraud]

Two days and thirteen pages later.. I wish some of my threads went on this long.

 

[LaMedicine]

Now, if you were stranded in the middle of some big city street....

Which I know well enough to dilligently avoid...or be sure enough to have a very trusted and reliable escort, preferably a local, with me.

 

[Feraud]

Which I know well enough to dilligently avoid...or be sure enough to have a very trusted and reliable escort, preferably a local, with me.

You will not have a problem if you travel to NYC.

 

[John in Covina]

Absolutely not, John.
But when it's easy to get or buy a handgun - it's also easy for the lunatics.

********

Here in the US the people the are regarded as at risk of harming themselves or others are supposed to be reported to the state government so that the clearance check will turn up the problem. However recent laws on privacy of doctor information has made such reporting in opposition to the new laws, so the latest is to clear the reporting for safety purposes.

Most states make you wait a cooling off period on new guns to avoid any in the heat of passion type shootings, but it doesn't cover those that may all ready have a gun. However, for many the pattern is usually one of escallation. where they do something stupid and it graduates to worse and worse behavior. A fair number of people have their guns confiscated after an incident or two of non-brilliant interaction or simply making threats.

Remember that 10 percent of the population is pretty much nuts, and can go off at any time. It then comes down to how motivated they are. I like to remind people that the guy that had the greatest single event kill number (was in NJ?) anyway he used a can of gas to burn down an occupied night club and not one shot was fired.

I wish i could find it, the breakdown of violent deaths in the US shows that guns are up there but the statistic also shown large numbers for beatings stabbings and a wide variety where guns were not used. In a nation of over 300 million small percetages become large numbers.

 

[John in Covina]

ALso, there tends to be a diffence in types of crime as well as percent of occurence by population when showing Urban vs, suburban vs. rural America.

 

[Spitfire]

I'm not a lunatic, but I am one of those horrible Puritanical people!

LaMedicine, you wouldn't have to worry about driving down a lonely strip of road in the middle of nowhere. Chances are pretty good that if anyone else came upon you, they would be most helpful. Now, if you were stranded in the middle of some big city street....

Spitfire, here we see another underlying problem. The presumption of guilt. This should not happen in a free society. No one is guilty of a crime until they are actually guilty of a crime! "Well, you MIGHT do something bad, therefore, we must restrict you in some way". Very, very wrong.

Furthermore, there is a matter of perception. Europeans and others around the world see sensationalized (and extraordinarily biased) news reports about America. One guy robs a bank and they think that we're all going around playing shoot 'em up. One person murders his wife and children and they think "those horrible bloodthirsty gunowning Americans". This, of course, is not the case at all. The last murder in my county that I can think of was 10 years ago or more. We're armed to the teeth around here. Must be something else then...

Fatdutchman, I know there are some biased/sensational reports on US - but there are also many true and professional reports (- which you can not say about US television and their coverage of what goes on in Europe, I' ve heard. But thats quite another storyfftopic
But I am perfectly able to think. And make up my mind.
There are no blodthirsty gunowning americans in my book.
But let me just ask you this - how many Highschoolshootings have you had in US within the last 30 years?
Wanna know how many we have had in Denmark? None.
In Scandinavia? None!!!
I only stated when it's easy too get hold of a gun - it's also easy for the lunatic.
But I am steppin down my soapbox. I am not even american - and it's an american poll.

 

[Maj.Nick Danger]

But I am steppin down my soapbox. I am not even american - and it's an american poll.

An American poll,...true enough, but I like hearing the input of those from other countries.

 

[Fatdutchman]

Reporting of what goes on in Europe?.....We don't really see much reporting of what happens in Europe. I think mostly because most Americans simply don't care what happens in Europe. I think I shouldn't say any more....

 

[LaMedicine]

You will not have a problem if you travel to NYC.

Thank you, kind sir.

I wish i could find it, the breakdown of violent deaths in the US shows that guns are up there but the statistic also shown large numbers for beatings stabbings and a wide variety where guns were not used. In a nation of over 300 million small percetages become large numbers.

I think that's one of the problems, that even though the percentages may be small, the actual numbers are large, and behind those numbers, there are numerous lives that are affected in tragic ways, and that is what makes those who live in societies where guns are banned feel uncomfortable. Also, the media here tends to take up and make a big issue of guns when you have tragedies like the recent one at Virginia Tech. Obviously, these kinds of criminal acts are going to be interpreted differently by those who are not familiar with the entire "atmosphere" of the US society in general. You may or may not be aware, but with Virginia Tech, a lot of the Koreans, both in the US and in Korea, worried about discrimination and general ill feeling towards Koreans, and the media in the Far East focused on this aspect, too.

Some time ago, there was the unfortunate incident of a high school exchange student from Japan who was gunned down by the owner of the home he mistakenly visited for a Halloween party. The ensuing uproar over this went on here for a long time, and even if the result of the trial of the homeowner was in accordance with US laws, and understandable to US citizens, I don't think the parents of the student ever really understood why they had to lose their son in this manner, and still carry their anger within, and the majority of the Japanese sympathize with this family.

Another point is, even though the number of beatings and stabbings may be larger and the results more gruesome, basically, these are one-on-one actions, unless you are a very accomplished knife thrower and have multiple knives with you, you can't attack more than one, or maybe two persons at a time and will have be within the distance that you may get attacked in turn, while with a gun, you can fire from a relatively safe distance the number of rounds it holds, and target as many people.

Incidentally, an old Japanese alternate name for guns and firearms is "tobi dougu" meaning weapons that fly, which, I think, is a very apt description.

 

[Harp]

Some time ago, there was the unfortunate incident of a high school exchange student from Japan who was gunned down by the owner of the home he mistakenly visited for a Halloween party. The ensuing uproar over this went on here for a long time, and even if the result of the trial of the homeowner was in accordance with US laws, and understandable to US citizens, I don't think the parents of the student ever really understood why they had to lose their son in this manner, and still carry their anger within, and the majority of the Japanese sympathize with this family.

This incident was indeed unfortunate. Although I personally favor the right
to bear arms, in this case I thought the homeowner-who shot this kid with
a .357 Magnum revolver outside his home-overreacted to the situation.
Had the homeowner fired a round off to warn, or retreated within his home,
deadly force could probably have been avoided. I believe this matter was decided
under Louisiana law, applying a standard regarding the actor's mindset at the time.

 

[Spitfire]

Reporting of what goes on in Europe?.....We don't really see much reporting of what happens in Europe. I think mostly because most Americans simply don't care what happens in Europe. I think I shouldn't say any more....

fftopic: -again. What I heard is that the US media chooses only to broadcast "what is important to americans" So obviously Europe and european culture is not important.
Then - I must say - this forum becomes much more important! Here we can come together from all parts of the world and discuss things that matters to us. Without any media trying to decide if it's important or not.