What is that you fetishise in a leather jacket Seb? After the jacket fits if it isn’t quality what could it be?
In your post that generated this discussion you seem to dismiss people chasing quality in objects as being vane. What higher moral standards you adhere to instead in your search? Enlighten me.
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You write a very judgemental and patronising post about people who think quality is pivotal in this hobby and then if people challenge you about it they are trolling?! I might have a different opinion on who is the troll here.
I’m still missing what instead is relevant for you in a vintage/repro leather jacket other than fit and quality of materials and construction.
I’m not saying you can’t have different standards but dismissing quality as being somewhat an unreasonable thing to chase for it’s very weird.
Between 2 jackets of a style you like would you go for the less well put together of the two everything else being equal?
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I fully admit I’m not a collector of things, I’m an explorer, just passing through. I have never met a jacket I won’t sell/replace and I highly doubt I ever will.
I think your path is more linear RD. Mine is more circular.Some conversations get lively, nothing wrong with that
We do not need any moderator to step in, this is a great thread!
This point by @ton312 is very interesting:
This pretty much explains the way you have been going on with your jacket, and I can relate to the joy of the search. Nothing is more fun than exploring styles, deciding on what to get next, then start speccing it.
The only part where I would diverge from you is in reselling. After having spent time thinking through a jacket, I find it hard to part with it. When I look at my jackets, I see the evolution of my journey through this hobby
Maybe even a spiral.I think your path is more linear RD. Mine is more circular.
If I may...
I own one LW, a Buco Rider, and wouldn't mind owning more 1 or 2 other LW designs if I could afford them.
I've owned maybe a half dozen Natel/Natal jackets. One cross-zip perfecto-style jacket, and maybe 5 cafe racer types.
I love both makers, and I see them very differently.
LW specializes in reproductions of old styles from roughly the 1930s-1950s. They go all out with materials and craftsmanship, and make something that is deliberately overbuilt, and are very proud of it.
Natal/Natel, we know really very little about. All the research I've done into them suggests that they were a small New England outfit. As far as I can tell, they made biker jackets, period. They used a pattern also used by Walter Dyer, an apparently larger and more successful business, but in my opinion Natal did it just a hair better, with thicker, tougher leather. They were built to be functional and durable, and they are all that, but I wouldn't say that they were obsessive about craft. They used standard, affordable materials for linings and hardware, and went above and beyond with leather.
You can often find a Natal jacket for sale on eBay for under $300, and often around $100. For what they are, I feel that they are massively undervalued. Built today, a Natal jacket would easily be a $500+ item, and probably more like $800. I have no idea what they cost when new, or really when they were in business, but I could guess that if they were mostly made in the 80's and 90's, which is only a guess, but I think it's a reasonably accurate one, then they probably sold new for around $200-250.
We know that LW sell for $1200-2000+ new. And if you're looking for a style that LW offers, nothing else will do. If you're looking for a leather jacket that's tough and heavy, a Natal will do very well, at about 1/10th the price.
From a cost to value standpoint, I think Natal enjoys a better ratio, new or used, for sure. But if you want specifically what LW offers in terms of style and spare-no-expense quality, they're in another league than Natal, and not really competing with each other (if we imagine Natal as a still-in-business business for sake of argument). LW isn't 10x the jacket for 10x the price, but they're several times what Natal is in certain aspects that Natal wasn't even trying for, so you kindof have to compare the two with that kind of understanding. If you mainly or only care about the aspects that Natal was after, then they're clearly a better value, even if inferior to LW with regard to certain details like stitching, lining materials, and hardware.
Boyo, that outfit is awesome. Head to toe looking dapper. The jacket is obviously the star of the show, but where did you get that hat?
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some people fetishize quality
To fetishise is simply to have an excessive or near irrational commitment to something.
I like GW leather jackets.No need for any moderator to step in as far as I’m concerned. Just a more lively than usual debate which I don’t think is casting any shadow on the beautiful jacket Boyo got. We are all grown up men I think.
I agree and accept we all have different standards but patronising people who think that quality doesn’t stop at the Aero level (of which I happily own products) is very annoying, myopic and irritating as far as I’m concerned.
If only Seb would have gotten through his personal preferences like in the central part of his last post I would just probably liked his post.
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I like GW leather jackets.No need for any moderator to step in as far as I’m concerned. Just a more lively than usual debate which I don’t think is casting any shadow on the beautiful jacket Boyo got. We are all grown up men I think.
I agree and accept we all have different standards but patronising people who think that quality doesn’t stop at the Aero level (of which I happily own products) is very annoying, myopic and irritating as far as I’m concerned.
If only Seb would have gotten through his personal preferences like in the central part of his last post I would just probably liked his post.
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so do I, perhaps the excitement over qualities of the example jacket the OP posted, has stimulated the discussions beyond the singular stellar jacket presentedI like GW leather jackets.