Get out the goats!

[Aloysius]

What do you need the perfect range of motion for? A sports jacket would probably be more sensible.
In this respect, I would say that if you like the look of gussets, take them. If not, don't.
Does Aero offer underarm gussets at all?

Many of the military jackets they reproduce include underarm gussets. Whether they'd add them to a civilian jacket order, I don't know, but it could be an option.

 

[MrProper]

Exactly, I've seen them on military jackets (my Coastal Command has them too), but I've never noticed any on civilian Aero jackets. Which of course means nothing

 

[nattevagten]

How come no company (Aero, SB, etc.) offers burgundy or maroon goathide? It’s always black or some variation of brown for some reason.

 

[Nalazo]

What do you need the perfect range of motion for? A sports jacket would probably be more sensible.
In this respect, I would say that if you like the look of gussets, take them. If not, don't.
Does Aero offer underarm gussets at all?

I suppose I'm simply after a comfortable jacket that I can move around in. I've come to realize that if the jacket isn't comfortable then I'll end up never wearing it. And, yep, Aero does offer the underarm gussets in their civilian line.

 

[MrProper]

I suppose I'm simply after a comfortable jacket that I can move around in. I've come to realize that if the jacket isn't comfortable then I'll end up never wearing it. And, yep, Aero does offer the underarm gussets in their civilian line.

In my theory, shoulder gussets alone do not make an uncomfortable jacket a comfortable jacket. Whether the jacket is super comfortable, comfortable or less comfortable depends on the pattern, body type and individual preferences.
But you're absolutely right, you're not likely to wear something uncomfortable.

I like aero jackets and I like to wear them. But I have read from some here who find them rather uncomfortable in principle. Maybe then another brand would be the better choice? CR with collar I think every manufacturer offers?

 

[Nalazo]

In my theory, shoulder gussets alone do not make an uncomfortable jacket a comfortable jacket. Whether the jacket is super comfortable, comfortable or less comfortable depends on the pattern, body type and individual preferences.
But you're absolutely right, you're not likely to wear something uncomfortable.

I like aero jackets and I like to wear them. But I have read from some here who find them rather uncomfortable in principle. Maybe then another brand would be the better choice? CR with collar I think every manufacturer offers?

Yea I would agree that the gussets alone can't make up for an uncomfortable jacket over all. I currently have an Aero 1930's half-belt in heavy horse which, while a good fit, I find too constricting. That's why I've been checking out the opposite end of the spectrum; lighter leathers combined with gussets.

I believe you may have had an Aero Sheene at some point....maybe I'm wrong. If so, did you find the design comfortable?

 

[MrProper]

Yea I would agree that the gussets alone can't make up for an uncomfortable jacket over all. I currently have an Aero 1930's half-belt in heavy horse which, while a good fit, I find too constricting. That's why I've been checking out the opposite end of the spectrum; lighter leathers combined with gussets.

I believe you may have had an Aero Sheene at some point....maybe I'm wrong. If so, did you find the design comfortable?

Yes, I have a Sheene. However, it is on the tighter side. I only wear them with a t-shirt and that works well. But I find my Ridley or PHWM more comfortable.
If I were to order the Sheene again, I would take a size larger and not take gussets for it. I once had a CR that was clearly too big, but quite comfortable.
But in fact, I wouldn't take a Sheene since I got the PHWM. I like that one better. As a café racer, I would now take the Boardracer. Fits better to my slender stature.

Sheene


CR

 

[Nalazo]

Yes, I have a Sheene. However, it is on the tighter side. I only wear them with a t-shirt and that works well. But I find my Ridley or PHWM more comfortable.
If I were to order the Sheene again, I would take a size larger and not take gussets for it. I once had a CR that was clearly too big, but quite comfortable.
But in fact, I wouldn't take a Sheene since I got the PHWM. I like that one better. As a café racer, I would now take the Boardracer. Fits better to my slender stature.

Sheene
View attachment 461793

CR
View attachment 461794

Thanks for the pics. Last question haha. Is there anything else besides the sizing issue that you didn't like about the Sheene pattern that made the Ridley or PHWM more comfortable? Thanks!

 

[MrProper]

Thanks for the pics. Last question haha. Is there anything else besides the sizing issue that you didn't like about the Sheene pattern that made the Ridley or PHWM more comfortable? Thanks!

Subjectively, I would say that the pattern is different. I have the wrinkles in the front from neck to armpit on the CR and also on the Sheene. This is much less present on the other jackets. Probably because the shoulders are less sloped on the Sheene.
But even here there are others who have no problem with it at all.

If you like the Sheene best, take a Sheene.

 

[3.14nche]

How come no company (Aero, SB, etc.) offers burgundy or maroon goathide? It’s always black or some variation of brown for some reason.

SB had some burgundy ealier this year.
A small sample on top of Aero russet.

 

[Aloysius]

Subjectively, I would say that the pattern is different. I have the wrinkles in the front from neck to armpit on the CR and also on the Sheene. This is much less present on the other jackets. Probably because the shoulders are less sloped on the Sheene.
But even here there are others who have no problem with it at all.

If you like the Sheene best, take a Sheene.

It’s a different pattern from the PHWM.

The Sheene is the Cafe Racer + a collar.

The Aero Seven is the Board Racer (same pattern as the Ridley you very much like) + a collar.

@Nalazo the shape of your upper block could enter into it. I haven’t heard of anyone having the same issue on the Ridley/Board Racer, so in that case you might want to use that pattern. It is straighter, or as Mr Proper would put it, more Y-shaped than the Cafe Racer, which is V-shaped. The shoulders also fit differently.

 

[jglf]

Does Aero only use veg tanned goat now? I thought they had both in the past, but their website stats they use veg.

 

[Aloysius]

Does Aero only use veg tanned goat now? I thought they had both in the past, but their website stats they use veg.

As far as I know, the goat they use is veg-tanned. It’s one of the rare cases where this is historically accurate, though. The goatskins used in WWII US pilot jackets were veg tanned hides from India.

 

[jacketjunkie]

Cockpit Civil A2 style, in no way historically accurate, but very practial and comfortable to wear. It‘s made from their topcoat-finished vegtan goatskin which after 2 months of daily wear starts to show some wear, mostly grain popping out and some creases on the sleeves. Best 200 bucks I ever spent on a jacket. If you see a used Cockpit cheap, you get a lot for your money.

 

[Nalazo]

So besides the factors of aging differently, the grain itself, and suppleness/softness, are there any other differences between Aero’s goat and and their mid weight horsehide which are of similar thicknesses/weights? It seems that some think that goat is better in warmer temps but does this hold true when the goat and horse are of similar thicknesses?

 

[jacketjunkie]

So besides the factors of aging differently, the grain itself, and suppleness/softness, are there any other differences between Aero’s goat and and their mid weight horsehide which are of similar thicknesses/weights? It seems that some think that goat is better in warmer temps but does this hold true when the goat and horse are of similar thicknesses?

Horsehide will always be stiffer, regardless of temperatures. Both are equally cold/warm as leather has pretty much no warmth to it, it‘s all about the lining.

How well they do in rain depends on tanning, not the anomal and keep in mind that hides that are treated with lots of waxes (like Horween CLX) don‘t do good in the cold, the cold waxes make them go extra stiff. My first CLX jacket would eventually lose that cold weather stiffness after tons of wear and multiple treatments with leather conditioner but it‘s quite the process..

Honestly, if they look equally good to you, pick the goat, softer = more comfortable. If you prefer the polished surface, crazy sleeve wrinkles look of the horse over the pebbly goat, go for the horse. Don‘t overthink theoretical qualities, go for what you feel more attracted to.

 

[zebedee]

The suppleness and ease of wear would go to goat overall, I think, but as we are talking about long wear periods and jackets made to last decades it is hard to say. My full-weight HH jackets are comfortable-ish, the mid-weight ones are more comfortable, the goat one is warmest soonest.

 

[Nalazo]

Horsehide will always be stiffer, regardless of temperatures. Both are equally cold/warm as leather has pretty much no warmth to it, it‘s all about the lining.

How well they do in rain depends on tanning, not the anomal and keep in mind that hides that are treated with lots of waxes (like Horween CLX) don‘t do good in the cold, the cold waxes make them go extra stiff. My first CLX jacket would eventually lose that cold weather stiffness after tons of wear and multiple treatments with leather conditioner but it‘s quite the process..

Honestly, if they look equally good to you, pick the goat, softer = more comfortable. If you prefer the polished surface, crazy sleeve wrinkles look of the horse over the pebbly goat, go for the horse. Don‘t overthink theoretical qualities, go for what you feel more attracted to.

The suppleness and ease of wear would go to goat overall, I think, but as we are talking about long wear periods and jackets made to last decades it is hard to say. My full-weight HH jackets are comfortable-ish, the mid-weight ones are more comfortable, the goat one is warmest soonest.

Thank you both for the good advice and thoughts. It's so easy to get lost in the weeds during this process!

 

[Nalazo]

Feel rather silly asking this but here goes. Goat is generally considered lighter than horse however Aero's midweight horse is listed as 2.5oz while the goat is 2.75oz. I'm assuming, then, their goat must feel heavier than their midweight horse right? Or is there something else going on here that I'm missing?

 

[Canuck Panda]

2.5oz horse is not gonna feel too much different than 2.75oz goat in terms of temper. Different grains for sure, but hand feel will be the same.