German & Austrian Hutmachers

[PanosChris]

Austrian Master Hat Maker Examination Regulations, Version as of June 30, 1997

https://www.ris.bka.gv.at/GeltendeF...Gesetzesnummer=10006799&FassungVom=1997-06-30

Matt, My guess is Casein fiber or synthetic fiber was used more than people here think. I have records of the last production processes for Ebreichsdorfer Filzhutfabrik and time and cost were a major focus (which in the end forced them out of business). This is the type of information that is missing from the historical record.

Quality Meteor, Casual Men's Smooth Finish Hat (1972, prior to close of Ebreichsdorfer Filzhutfabrik, + translation issues)

Steve, excellent info, thanks for sharing!

 

[PanosChris]

Here's a new find. Shopping through vintage shops is usually the way I find hats, but with the restrictions only partially lifted you can find yourself standing in line for a long time waiting to get in. Not for me. Two shops were without line and I managed to find this hat in one of them.
Wegener Extra in green (in my defense: I thought it was grey when I bought it). Size 59 with the bound brim at 6,5cm and the crown at 10,5 cm at the center dent. Lovely thin felt with a nice hand to it. Quite light at only 102 grams. Except for the small size label no other label inside the hat. Liner is still stitched in, so likely early to mid-fifties.

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Great catch Stefan! I am sure someone will be pleased with it! It still looks grey on my screen though

 

[PanosChris]

To confirm Stefan's opinion about the early Wegener hats: here's a top one!
Beige-grey ("leer PN" - City Leer?) Wegener "Seal": 56 with a 10 cm crown (centre dent)
and a 5.5 cm brim with double stitching. The suede-like felt finish is simply fantastic
(but Stefan and Steve know that felt better): The hat is the lightest fur felt specimen
I've ever had in my hands - unfortunately I don't have a scale here to weigh it.
The hat is in fantastic NOS condition - even the externe paper size tag is still there,
on which the price is handwritten: 19.40 D-Mark I think. The stretchy wind cord
is made of rubber (I think) and wrapped in ribbon colour - it is still flexible!
The lining is still sewn in - so early/mid 50s, you say.

The hat is a discovery of Panos and was on his wish list: Congratulations on this fantastic hat!

in sunlight

Matt, wow and thank you! This one will tick two boxes for me, I think None of the Wegeners and/or chamois/suede finished hats that passed from my hands, stayed in the collection for one or another reason. Thanks again and looking forwards to it!

 

[PanosChris]

Thank you, Panos. It was worth giving it a try on this one. Good luck!

Just to confirm that Stefan's protocol works, thanks! Still in the process, but pretty satisfied so far, it's a different hat!

Before

After

 

[PanosChris]

Some gambling is needed in this game. BB Bristol in transitional/lords style, marked size 54, but fits! Humble wool, instead of exotic animals fur can make for a grail hat for some

I can't really thank enough @mayserwegener for pointing out this one to me!

 

[mayserwegener]

Just to confirm that Stefan's protocol works, thanks! Still in the process, but pretty satisfied so far, it's a different hat!

Before View attachment 335212 After
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Panos, Super! That definitely is the original brim width.

 

[mayserwegener]

Some gambling is needed in this game. BB Bristol in transitional/lords style, marked size 54, but fits! Humble wool, instead of exotic animals fur can make for a grail hat for some
View attachment 335215 View attachment 335216 View attachment 335219 View attachment 335220 View attachment 335221 View attachment 335222 View attachment 335224 View attachment 335225 View attachment 335226 View attachment 335227
I can't really thank enough @mayserwegener for pointing out this one to me!

Panos, Fantastic! This is a real beauty and in NOS condition. My guess is mid to later 1930s. Also the paper label size is probably 55 cm.

 

[steur]

As an adition:
The lost liner in my VHG was also stitched in like in
Stefan's and not glued in - found the rest of the threads.
By the way:
The "Luxus" crest on the lining ist the crest of the City of Guben.

Never thought of that, but makes sense. Thanks for pointing that out, Matt.

 

[steur]

Just to confirm that Stefan's protocol works, thanks! Still in the process, but pretty satisfied so far, it's a different hat!

Before View attachment 335212 After
View attachment 335213 View attachment 335214

That's a massive improvement for that hat, Panos, and a testimony for the resilience of the felt. Glad it worked out.

 

[steur]

Some gambling is needed in this game. BB Bristol in transitional/lords style, marked size 54, but fits! Humble wool, instead of exotic animals fur can make for a grail hat for some
View attachment 335215 View attachment 335216 View attachment 335219 View attachment 335220 View attachment 335221 View attachment 335222 View attachment 335224 View attachment 335225 View attachment 335226 View attachment 335227
I can't really thank enough @mayserwegener for pointing out this one to me!

That's a magnificent hat, Panos. I don't think I would have gone for a size 54 myself, but fortune favors the brave. Congrats. Don't see these Brüder Böhm hats often.

 

[Mean Eyed Matt]

Some gambling is needed in this game. BB Bristol in transitional/lords style, marked size 54, but fits! Humble wool, instead of exotic animals fur can make for a grail hat for some
View attachment 335215 View attachment 335216 View attachment 335219 View attachment 335220 View attachment 335221 View attachment 335222 View attachment 335224 View attachment 335225 View attachment 335226 View attachment 335227
I can't really thank enough @mayserwegener for pointing out this one to me!

Wow - wow - and again: WOW! Everything about that one is just beautiful!

 

[Mean Eyed Matt]

Another hat Panos discovered and I "secured" for him:
Black "Colonia" (= Köln City) made of a lovely wool felt with back bow
The size is a 54 (hope it fits you, Panos); brim 6.0 cm, crown 10.0 cm (dent)
Certainly pre-war - I guess mid/late 30s - but that's just a guess, so please comment.
On the brand I have found nothing so far exept:
The paper label (the only one) is the same as on a J.A.Seidl on Steve's site...
https://germanaustrianhats.invisionzone.com/topic/244-hutfabrik-j-a-seidl-münchen/

 

[Mean Eyed Matt]

Yesterday I picked up my vaccination and made a little trip:
"Richard Mühe" in Grimma (Saxony): "Military Accessories- Glove- Hat- & Cap-Shop".
Unfortunately I haven't found anything about it yet but the store is certainly late 1800s
- and apparently (unfortunately closed) much of the original furnishings are still there.

 

[mayserwegener]

Another hat Panos discovered and I "secured" for him:
Black "Colonia" (= Köln City) made of a lovely wool felt with back bow
The size is a 54 (hope it fits you, Panos); brim 6.0 cm, crown 10.0 cm (dent)
Certainly pre-war - I guess mid/late 30s - but that's just a guess, so please comment.
On the brand I have found nothing so far exept:
The paper label (the only one) is the same as on a J.A.Seidl on Steve's site...
https://germanaustrianhats.invisionzone.com/topic/244-hutfabrik-j-a-seidl-münchen/

Matt, Great find by Panos and super detective work by you! It's definitely the same source as the J. A. Seidl München Soft and Stiff Felt Hats. The Soft Felt that you linked to is date stamped 1932 so this hat is probably in the about the same time period. I have no idea on what was left of J. A. Seidl München factory at this time but the construction is different from Mayser Ulm which was mostly Fur Felt while all the J. A. Seidl München examples are Wool. J. A. Seidl München Stiff Felt does have a similar sweatband to the Soft Felts so I will have to check the paper label. I will check and see if I can find anything on "Colonia" but it's most likely connected to J. A. Seidl München (they also had retail locations).

 

[mayserwegener]

Yesterday I picked up my vaccination and made a little trip:
"Richard Mühe" in Grimma (Saxony): "Military Accessories- Glove- Hat- & Cap-Shop".
Unfortunately I haven't found anything about it yet but the store is certainly late 1800s
- and apparently (unfortunately closed) much of the original furnishings are still there.

Matt, Congrats! Super setting! The facade of the store is beautifully preserved. It would be great to see the interior. I will will see if it pops up on anything I have.

 

[mayserwegener]

I found this Wool Stiff Felt back in 2014 but never took photos of the paper label. Turns out it has the same type on Non Mark Paper Label type (also the small Numeric Orange Paper Label type) we come across so often with German Wool Soft and Stiff Felts from the 1930s and older. Carl Zeumer Magazin Zum PFAU was a well known supplier so my guess is they sourced directly from the factory.

https://germanaustrianhats.invision...-magazin-zum-pfau/?do=findComment&comment=994

 

[Mean Eyed Matt]

Matt, Great find by Panos and super detective work by you! It's definitely the same source as the J. A. Seidl München Soft and Stiff Felt Hats. The Soft Felt that you linked to is date stamped 1932 so this hat is probably in the about the same time period. I have no idea on what was left of J. A. Seidl München factory at this time but the construction is different from Mayser Ulm which was mostly Fur Felt while all the J. A. Seidl München examples are Wool. J. A. Seidl München Stiff Felt does have a similar sweatband to the Soft Felts so I will have to check the paper label. I will check and see if I can find anything on "Colonia" but it's most likely connected to J. A. Seidl München (they also had retail locations).

Steve, I had a second look into my J. A. Seidl Bowler: no such label.
But it is a stiff fur felt and no woolie, so as you say: probably another source.
With my Bowler, the suspicion arose that it might be from Mayser Ulm...
Remember that one?

Only paper labels inside

 

[Mean Eyed Matt]

Matt, Congrats! Super setting! The facade of the store is beautifully preserved. It would be great to see the interior. I will will see if it pops up on anything I have.

Steve, I think I will have a futur stop in Grimma again and get back to the shop,
to hopefully take a look inside, because already the old window furnishings promised a lot.

 

[mayserwegener]

Steve, I had a second look into my J. A. Seidl Bowler: no such label.
But it is a stiff fur felt and no woolie, so as you say: probably another source.
With my Bowler, the suspicion arose that it might be from Mayser Ulm...
Remember that one?

Only paper labels inside

Matt, I remember this one. I forgot to post it on my website which I will do now. It does have the small Numeric Paper Labels (inspection Marks?) but they are somewhat common among German and Austrian Hat Companies. As I mentioned I am not aware of Hutfabrik J. A. Seidl München having production post Mayser Ulm so as you mentioned probably sourced. Looking at it now it's probably some other source other than Mayser Ulm. The non branded Mayser Ulm Stiff Felts that I have seen have Mayser Ulm like Paper Labels, are Fur Felt and have similar components (Sweatband, Liner, Band, Binding) + construction. Without a company mark or any physical evidence it's a mystery Stiff Felt. The large German Hat companies, for example in Guben, could produce both Wool and Fur Felt Stiff and Soft Felts Hats and Stumps. See the major pre WWII Hat Companies down your way.

 

[Rmccamey]

Arrrg...you guys are killing me with those bowlers!

I found this Wool Stiff Felt back in 2014 but never took photos of the paper label. Turns out it has the same type on Non Mark Paper Label type (also the small Numeric Orange Paper Label type) we come across so often with German Wool Soft and Stiff Felts from the 1930s and older. Carl Zeumer Magazin Zum PFAU was a well known supplier so my guess is they sourced directly from the factory.

https://germanaustrianhats.invision...-magazin-zum-pfau/?do=findComment&comment=994

Steve, I had a second look into my J. A. Seidl Bowler: no such label.
But it is a stiff fur felt and no woolie, so as you say: probably another source.
With my Bowler, the suspicion arose that it might be from Mayser Ulm...
Remember that one?

Only paper labels inside