Gentlemen what is the ideal lady for you?

[Foofoogal]

Kudos to you and your lady. lol :eusa_clap

I have been thinking of that alot lately. Where or when did women start selling themselves so short? I could say so much on this. many anyway, not all.

 

[Spiffy]

Heh from my perspective as a petite woman I never understood the collar thing - I have to get my guy to lean down if I'm gonna kiss it anyway and if it comes to that, I rather prefer his face.

Pssh. I'm 5' 3'' on a good day.....the trick is to get your guy to lean over, like you are about to whisper a seductive secret in his ear, then get his cheek and flee in the opposite direction.lol

 

[Fletch]

Where or when did women start selling themselves so short?

Probably not too long after they started selling themselves, period.

< cynicism >

Love can be many things, but in a market society, it usually doesn't go far unless it is in some degree a market transaction, based on one person's material value to another or to society. A woman who doesn't meet common standards of looks or sexuality, or a man who doesn't meet those of ambition or "manliness," has less incentive to believe in herself or himself - others will tacitly encourage them to sell short.

I'm not totally cynical - I don't believe that love is strictly material. Satisfy the market principle, and love can rise above it. But refuse to satisfy it and you're not likely to get the chance.

< /cynicism >

 

[Diamondback]

Pssh. I'm 5' 3'' on a good day.....the trick is to get your guy to lean over, like you are about to whisper a seductive secret in his ear, then get his cheek and flee in the opposite direction.lol

Great, here we go again, inspiring dread that us short guys have a lost cause... (I'm normally 5'4" , and only hit 5'6" under specific conditions none of us want to see and I don't want to be in again.)

WineGuy, well said!

----------------
Now playing: John Barry - Capsule In Space
via FoxyTunes

 

[Trebuchet64_Fal]

I think if your search is for an ideal anything you will only be dissapointed , i had no idea what to expect when i was married but twenty one years later i would have to say my wife was the right one.

 

[Edward]

That says it all. Mama knows best!

Jings, I hope not.... the idea of what my mother would pick out for me is horrific. Course, I think my folks would be fairly happy if I went out with anyone - dad's fine, but mater dearest does seem to think I'm rather odd in my singleness as I enter middle age. [huh] lol

Half the fun of lipstick is getting it all over someone else!

...or being the one on the receiving end....

 

[Paisley]

Probably not too long after they started selling themselves, period.

< cynicism >

Love can be many things, but in a market society, it usually doesn't go far unless it is in some degree a market transaction, based on one person's material value to another or to society. A woman who doesn't meet common standards of looks or sexuality, or a man who doesn't meet those of ambition or "manliness," has less incentive to believe in herself or himself - others will tacitly encourage them to sell short.

I'm not totally cynical - I don't believe that love is strictly material. Satisfy the market principle, and love can rise above it. But refuse to satisfy it and you're not likely to get the chance.

< /cynicism >

My understanding of the market pricinple is that a buyer and seller agree on a price that suits them both. If you have $5,000 to buy a car, you won't be buying a new Lexus. But you can buy a car. To say that women (and men) who are attractive and men (and women) who are financial well-off, etc. have more options than those who aren't is just being realistic, not cynical. Saying that someone who is low on either or both counts might need to "sell short" is agreeing with those yardsticks.

If we were to drop the "market principle" and return to arranged marriages, it would probably be all about the money and connections, since that's what it was about before. Aside from social climbing and making and hoarding a pile of money, there's not much you could do to marry up.

 

[ladybrettashley]

My understanding of the market pricinple is that a buyer and seller agree on a price that suits them both. If you have $5,000 to buy a car, you won't be buying a new Lexus. But you can buy a car. To say that women (and men) who are attractive and men (and women) who are financial well-off, etc. have more options than those who aren't is just being realistic, not cynical. Saying that someone who is low on either or both counts might need to "sell short" is agreeing with those yardsticks.

Only, everyone has different yardsticks. Some folks wouldn't want a Lexus if they could afford it

 

[Paisley]

Agreed. And saying that someone should sell short isn't agreeing with market principles, as I understand them.

 

[Foofoogal]

A woman who doesn't meet common standards of looks or sexuality, or a man who doesn't meet those of ambition or "manliness," has less incentive to believe in herself or himself - others will tacitly encourage them to sell short.

I have seen way too many handsome men with less than pretty women and the opposite to be sold on this. I personally think sex appeal is 60% or maybe higher one word." Confidence." If you do the best you can do and sell it. If you don't believe in your own product who will.
I am not talking sex either here. I am talking not "do you want me but do I want you?"lol
Especially now. We are not in the dark ages. Both sexes have many, many countless options.
I guess I listened to my older brother too much as he made Fonzi look like a geek.
Don't give it away, your soul, your love, nothing. It is a treasure in many ways. Protect yourself.
There is about a zillion people on this earth. If one doesn't click....broaden your horizons.

walk thru any mall anywhere. Look at the couples. I promise there evidently is someone for everyone if they choose. If they don't choose that is ok also.

 

[Paisley]

^ :arated:

Foofoogal, you nailed another big reason that some men can't get a date: lack of confidence. It's chick repellant.

 

[Fletch]

All right, that last post was entirely too much < cynicism >. It's stopped the thread cold, so I withdraw it.

But Paisley, you do come across as pretty cold saying what you said and I'd like to ask you about it.

And Foofoogal, confidence is most of manliness, which is the ability to put the job first - whatever it is, big or little or the same damn thing over and over - to master yourself enough to ignore what you feel and need for a while and just be a means to an end, even if the end is your own.

 

[Paisley]

The Faint Heart Never Won the Maiden Fair

I think more men are overconfident than underconfident. Look at personal ads men place--many of them want someone half their age with twice their good looks.

Arrogance will attract some people. But the most popular guy I know isn't arrogant, he's just outgoing, friendly, happy, and interested in other people. Girls are always coming up to him. I've known him for years, and he's exactly what he seems to be: a friendly, caring person.

As for what modern women are like, Fletch, maybe you have been doing too much reading and too little field work?

 

[Fletch]

Undoubtedly. I talk a good game hidden behind a screen, but in the arena there's neither the time nor the allowance to stand back, suss the social cues, and weigh one's words.

I know from personal experience that if we can't be friendly and caring under live fire - thru all the heavy silences, awkwardness, and every time our mind goes blank with nothing to talk about - we're really not friendly or caring. We're just stuck in ourselves.

And AFA everybody else IC, when you're stuck in yourself, you're stuck on yourself. A really profound lack of self-confidence - or any self-protective instinct - is hard to tell from arrogance, and it's not the outward, attractive kind of arrogance either, but a mean snakey kind, all balled up and ready to bite.

Needless to say, anyone - man OR woman - who hopes to find a soulmate who will see thru that to who they really are is living in a fool's paradise.

The answer, I guess, for a man anyway, is to be your own tool and Do The Job, to be prepared to reach out into the darkness between you and the other person, over and over and over, knowing that the only way to really connect is to expect everything and nothing at every moment, and that that is probably absurd, but life itself is pretty absurd and you are damn well going to have to learn what it feels like to embrace that absurdity, because life will never stop being sad if you can't live with its contradictions.

 

[Diamondback]

You and me both, brother. Miss Perfect could show up at the airstrip restaurant with a plane parked outside only waiting for someone to ride shotgun with her and I'd still be a stammering milquetoast nervous-wreck...

 

[Paisley]

All right, that last post was entirely too much < cynicism >. It's stopped the thread cold, so I withdraw it.

But Paisley, you do come across as pretty cold saying what you said and I'd like to ask you about it.

Fletch, I didn't intend to have a chilling effect on anyone. I wish you and everybody here success. My intent is for anyone who would like to meet someone special (not ideal) to stop focusing on things outside their control and focus on what they can do. Other people's expectations, other options that women have, changing rules, etc.--those are outside your control. Your outlook and sense of self-confidence are, to a great extent I think, within your control, and when those are positive, they'll only help you. I'm not saying it's easy--but they can be attained.

All kinds of men date, fall in love and get married. There are all kinds of women looking for someone, too. I believe the odds are in men's favor--there seem to be more eligible women than men out there. There aren't any guarantees, of course. But a real effort is worth more than a thousand excuses.

 

[Fletch]

Wise words, and thanks for them.

But I still say that if lack of confidence is that much of a deal-breaker for a woman, then finally, it is not under a man's control. Not unless he has achieved total control of himself, and is Doing The Job every second, never allowing the slightest hint of trouble to flicker across the woman's watchful instincts.

As imperfect as we all know we are, there still is that little corner in each of us where we must have perfection or everything is worthless. Another absurdity, another contradiction, something else to reconcile knowing you really never can.

 

[dhermann1]

DB, if you learn how to be an adorable stammering milquetoast, you'll be surprised how well things can go. The way to do that is to learn to laugh at your worst self, and forgive your worst self as well. I think Woody Allen probably saved my life back in the 70's and 80's when he taught me that.
The brave man is not the one without fear, but the one who masters it. When it comes to women, any sane man should get weak in the knees to some degree. The idea is to incorporate it into your routine. Just don't drool or barf.
But don't be afraid to say to a woman "I think you're so beautiful it may cause me to have an involuntary bodily function." Or words to that effect.

 

[Diamondback]

Thanks, Dan--I actually already riff on that with the "crazy as a loon" references to my atypical neurobiology and psych-work, trying to make light of the situation rather than claim "victimhood".

Bear in mind, courage is situational--if I'm acting in my role as "personal protection detail" or giving a tour at the museum, I'm calm, cool, collected, composed, the textbook image of the professional in control of the situation, but take that approach from a position where I can use knowledge and skills as an equalizer away from me and I struggle. (Hence, my standing offer to Loungers visiting Seattle to act as tour-guide for them--that way first-contact is on my turf and my advantages, so I can hopefully make a good impression to build an in for explaining the sudden "collapse" afterward if things move to terra infirma--kinda proposing an "I guided you through this, would you be willing to coach me through whatever you're planning?" arrangement.)

 

[Foofoogal]

And Foofoogal, confidence is most of manliness, which is the ability to put the job first - whatever it is, big or little or the same damn thing over and over - to master yourself enough to ignore what you feel and need for a while and just be a means to an end, even if the end is your own.
__________________

Fletch. I totally appreciate what I hopefully think you are saying. I am the last woman on earth to want to feminize any man. All of us speak from our experiences and on the internet things get a bit muddled. I at first had no clue what you were even saying. I will rattle on and my comments may have no inkling of relationship to what you are saying and if so I apologize.
Here goes:
The very strength you are stating is a man must focus and keep it together at all times.
I am not talking at all about arrogance. I do think or feel though there are still some women that understand you have to take care of business and will meet you halfway.
Women and men are so very different. No ? about it
I personally am married to Clint Eastwood. I not only respect and love him my Clint but understand he is a quiet mans man. I read between the lines and understand he focuses. When he focuses he is doing what he needs to do to do it well. It is not any disrespect to me and I understand that. When he focuses on me I know he is really focusing on me.
Thank God. It gets alot of stuff done the right way. Family, home, work, etc.