Incredible finds, Daniele. A rare treat to see the other Borsalino hats and such a stroke of luck finding these in such a nice condition as well.
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G.B.Borsalino Fu Lazzaro & C. <1936
- Thread starter rlk
- Start date
Mean Eyed Matt
One Too Many
- Messages
- 1,142
- Location
- Germany
In joyful anticipation of the fantastic bowler arriving at my door - Gracie, Daniele - I thought of
a repro poster I got many years ago from the retailer in Leipzig where I bought my very first hat:
The Bowler arrived - and it is fantastic! Thanks to Daniele!
But unfortunately I was too optimistic about the size:
It doesn't really fit me and I've already told Daniele,
that I will have to pass it on with a heavy heart...
That's why there are no pictures of me wearing the hat.
But here is a small impression that I hope you gentlemen will like!
Last edited:
Rmccamey
I'll Lock Up
- Messages
- 5,876
- Location
- Central Texas
Sorry it doesn't fit. Bowlers are a bit finicky like that It still looks great!
The Bowler arrived - and it is fantastic! Thanks to Daniele!
But unfortunately I was too optimistic about the size:
It doesn't really fit me and I've already told Daniele,
that I will have to pass it on with a heavy heart...
That's why there are no pictures of me wearing the hat.
But here is a small impression that I hope you gentlemen will like!
genroda
New in Town
- Messages
- 13
- Location
- Alessandria, Italy
Dear Gentlemen,
may I introduce myself to this interesting Party of Borsalino enthusiasts. I am following your discussions and interesting posts since the beginning. Unfortunately I had never something of real interest to add here. I own a several old Borsalinos which I will not present to you as they are ordinary ones from the 1960s.
I am looking for a "fu Lazzaro" one since about 10 years. They are incredibly scarce. Once I got one of those produced under licence by a canadian supplier. Some of theses are also reproduced here.
Looking yesterday at your chat, I performed my usual check for Borsalino Lazzaro - and this time with more success. There were two hats at ebay, even at low prices so I baught them.
Is it OK if I give you the links ?
Number 1.
https://www.ebay.de/itm/Borsalino-H...e=STRK:MEBIDX:IT&_trksid=p2060353.m2749.l2649
Number 2.
https://www.ebay.de/itm/GB-BORSALIN...e=STRK:MEBIDX:IT&_trksid=p2060353.m2749.l2649
One is located in Austria and the other one in Germany. I am of german origins and today I am the tecnical director of a company at Alessandria, where these hats once originated. My company in the 1970s has also demolished the old Borsalino Facilities. My collegues then hired a deposit place to put in all the old hatmakers machines and equipment of Borsalino. They were so beautiful and historically interesting that we thought it was a crime to put them into the iron crap. We tried for many years to interest the city of Alessandria to take them over (as a gift !) and conserve them for the museum, but as usual these idiots were not interested in culture. So they started to get corrosion and today they are garage doors I think. But under tons of stuff we found a old Alfa Romeo of 1934 and other stuff belonging to the Borsalino family. Still today we own some desk ventilators and old telephones from the facilities. We keep them well, maybe one day they'll got to the local museumbut until today nothing has changed here. Deepest Province, no esprit. Even the Borsalino family had tons of troubles back in time with the selfish people over here. Despite all their efforts to turn the city into a art deco place par excellence, investing all their money in local infrastructure etc. The place was interesting at the time because we have what all such industries desperately need: Water, water, water. So here grew a important industry of hats. Both Companies in the 1930s employed odd 3.500 employees, plus all the supplies, totally nearel 25.000 people. Since the 1970s all is going down here, like Detroit at the time. Now they are going to destroy everything. The old Borsalino Buildings, dont exist anymore as interiors, only the facades are still there. Only one bigger Building of the Borsalino fu Lazzaro plant is still existing entirely but in a devasted state. It will be destroyed soon.
The two Borsalinos were real ennemies until 1936. The Borsalino vecchia casa took over and all traces of Lazzaro etc. were immediately eliminated. The winners justice. I knew their old head of quality. This guy entered Borsalino in 1946 and said that Borsalino never ever produced anything with the old logo or the Lazzaro name in it. And they made lots of things nobody know today. Did you know that the hats of the Royal Canadian mounted Police actually were Borsalino's ? They made them in Alessandria. I guess later they were made under licence by canadian suppliers but I have no evidence of this. My man left Borsalino into pension in 1984 and he rearranged some of my old Borsalinos in his home studio. He said that Borsalino never since first world war made hats with the quality made in the 1960s. For a simple reason he said: The quality of hats depends on only three things: 1. The constant supply of highest quality rabbit fur from south america. 2. see 1. and 3. see also 1.
These supplies are difficult to organise and very sensible for troubles like war. Once shut down it lasts long years to get back in business. So Borsalino since 1914 was in constant trouble for good fur supply. In the 1960s finally, after nearly 20 years of peace and prosperity, it worked out well. The quality was superb, only the french customers constantly complained and sent back whole batches. Some millimeters of difference in hight of the head and they refused them. They hated the french customers but nevertheless: the Borsalinos sold to France in the 1960s were the very best hats Borsalino has ever made. That's what I remember of my encounter with one of the last living responsables of the old Borsalino Company.
I am terrible out of topic and annoying you guys, so back to the two hats above mentioned. Once they come back to Alessandria I will make some more fotos. I fear they both wont fit my head, I am a 56cm, 4 1/2 at the time or 7 1/8 today. So if someone of you is interested I pass them on, no problem.
Thats all for now, sorry to be long and out of topic, but I am italian now, and this is called "Chiacchiere" .... try to pronounce this
may I introduce myself to this interesting Party of Borsalino enthusiasts. I am following your discussions and interesting posts since the beginning. Unfortunately I had never something of real interest to add here. I own a several old Borsalinos which I will not present to you as they are ordinary ones from the 1960s.
I am looking for a "fu Lazzaro" one since about 10 years. They are incredibly scarce. Once I got one of those produced under licence by a canadian supplier. Some of theses are also reproduced here.
Looking yesterday at your chat, I performed my usual check for Borsalino Lazzaro - and this time with more success. There were two hats at ebay, even at low prices so I baught them.
Is it OK if I give you the links ?
Number 1.
https://www.ebay.de/itm/Borsalino-H...e=STRK:MEBIDX:IT&_trksid=p2060353.m2749.l2649
Number 2.
https://www.ebay.de/itm/GB-BORSALIN...e=STRK:MEBIDX:IT&_trksid=p2060353.m2749.l2649
One is located in Austria and the other one in Germany. I am of german origins and today I am the tecnical director of a company at Alessandria, where these hats once originated. My company in the 1970s has also demolished the old Borsalino Facilities. My collegues then hired a deposit place to put in all the old hatmakers machines and equipment of Borsalino. They were so beautiful and historically interesting that we thought it was a crime to put them into the iron crap. We tried for many years to interest the city of Alessandria to take them over (as a gift !) and conserve them for the museum, but as usual these idiots were not interested in culture. So they started to get corrosion and today they are garage doors I think. But under tons of stuff we found a old Alfa Romeo of 1934 and other stuff belonging to the Borsalino family. Still today we own some desk ventilators and old telephones from the facilities. We keep them well, maybe one day they'll got to the local museumbut until today nothing has changed here. Deepest Province, no esprit. Even the Borsalino family had tons of troubles back in time with the selfish people over here. Despite all their efforts to turn the city into a art deco place par excellence, investing all their money in local infrastructure etc. The place was interesting at the time because we have what all such industries desperately need: Water, water, water. So here grew a important industry of hats. Both Companies in the 1930s employed odd 3.500 employees, plus all the supplies, totally nearel 25.000 people. Since the 1970s all is going down here, like Detroit at the time. Now they are going to destroy everything. The old Borsalino Buildings, dont exist anymore as interiors, only the facades are still there. Only one bigger Building of the Borsalino fu Lazzaro plant is still existing entirely but in a devasted state. It will be destroyed soon.
The two Borsalinos were real ennemies until 1936. The Borsalino vecchia casa took over and all traces of Lazzaro etc. were immediately eliminated. The winners justice. I knew their old head of quality. This guy entered Borsalino in 1946 and said that Borsalino never ever produced anything with the old logo or the Lazzaro name in it. And they made lots of things nobody know today. Did you know that the hats of the Royal Canadian mounted Police actually were Borsalino's ? They made them in Alessandria. I guess later they were made under licence by canadian suppliers but I have no evidence of this. My man left Borsalino into pension in 1984 and he rearranged some of my old Borsalinos in his home studio. He said that Borsalino never since first world war made hats with the quality made in the 1960s. For a simple reason he said: The quality of hats depends on only three things: 1. The constant supply of highest quality rabbit fur from south america. 2. see 1. and 3. see also 1.
These supplies are difficult to organise and very sensible for troubles like war. Once shut down it lasts long years to get back in business. So Borsalino since 1914 was in constant trouble for good fur supply. In the 1960s finally, after nearly 20 years of peace and prosperity, it worked out well. The quality was superb, only the french customers constantly complained and sent back whole batches. Some millimeters of difference in hight of the head and they refused them. They hated the french customers but nevertheless: the Borsalinos sold to France in the 1960s were the very best hats Borsalino has ever made. That's what I remember of my encounter with one of the last living responsables of the old Borsalino Company.
I am terrible out of topic and annoying you guys, so back to the two hats above mentioned. Once they come back to Alessandria I will make some more fotos. I fear they both wont fit my head, I am a 56cm, 4 1/2 at the time or 7 1/8 today. So if someone of you is interested I pass them on, no problem.
Thats all for now, sorry to be long and out of topic, but I am italian now, and this is called "Chiacchiere" .... try to pronounce this
TheGuitarFairy
Practically Family
- Messages
- 608
- Location
- Just West of Boston
Welcome, congratulations on two new (to you) Fu Lazzaro's and thank you for such an interesting read. I don't have garage space for any more machinery but could find room for the Alfa ; )
Looking forward to seeing hats when they arrive!
Looking forward to seeing hats when they arrive!
- Messages
- 17,524
- Location
- Maryland
They are later Borsalino Giuseppe & Fratello so not original G.B.Borsalino Fu Lazzaro & C. Giuseppe & Fratello definitely made hats with the G.B.Borsalino Fu Lazzaro & C. mark post WWII.Dear Gentlemen,
may I introduce myself to this interesting Party of Borsalino enthusiasts. I am following your discussions and interesting posts since the beginning. Unfortunately I had never something of real interest to add here. I own a several old Borsalinos which I will not present to you as they are ordinary ones from the 1960s.
I am looking for a "fu Lazzaro" one since about 10 years. They are incredibly scarce. Once I got one of those produced under licence by a canadian supplier. Some of theses are also reproduced here.
Looking yesterday at your chat, I performed my usual check for Borsalino Lazzaro - and this time with more success. There were two hats at ebay, even at low prices so I baught them.
Is it OK if I give you the links ?
Number 1.
https://www.ebay.de/itm/Borsalino-Herrenhut-braun-grau-Gr-6-1-2/143935563525?ssPageName=STRK:MEBIDX:IT&_trksid=p2060353.m2749.l2649
Number 2.
https://www.ebay.de/itm/GB-BORSALINO-1930s-Vintage-Hut-Hat-Gr-5-Haarfilz-Fur-Felt-Made-in-Italy-Grau-Gre/184610393561?ssPageName=STRK:MEBIDX:IT&_trksid=p2060353.m2749.l2649
One is located in Austria and the other one in Germany. I am of german origins and today I am the tecnical director of a company at Alessandria, where these hats once originated. My company in the 1970s has also demolished the old Borsalino Facilities. My collegues then hired a deposit place to put in all the old hatmakers machines and equipment of Borsalino. They were so beautiful and historically interesting that we thought it was a crime to put them into the iron crap. We tried for many years to interest the city of Alessandria to take them over (as a gift !) and conserve them for the museum, but as usual these idiots were not interested in culture. So they started to get corrosion and today they are garage doors I think. But under tons of stuff we found a old Alfa Romeo of 1934 and other stuff belonging to the Borsalino family. Still today we own some desk ventilators and old telephones from the facilities. We keep them well, maybe one day they'll got to the local museumbut until today nothing has changed here. Deepest Province, no esprit. Even the Borsalino family had tons of troubles back in time with the selfish people over here. Despite all their efforts to turn the city into a art deco place par excellence, investing all their money in local infrastructure etc. The place was interesting at the time because we have what all such industries desperately need: Water, water, water. So here grew a important industry of hats. Both Companies in the 1930s employed odd 3.500 employees, plus all the supplies, totally nearel 25.000 people. Since the 1970s all is going down here, like Detroit at the time. Now they are going to destroy everything. The old Borsalino Buildings, dont exist anymore as interiors, only the facades are still there. Only one bigger Building of the Borsalino fu Lazzaro plant is still existing entirely but in a devasted state. It will be destroyed soon.
The two Borsalinos were real ennemies until 1936. The Borsalino vecchia casa took over and all traces of Lazzaro etc. were immediately eliminated. The winners justice. I knew their old head of quality. This guy entered Borsalino in 1946 and said that Borsalino never ever produced anything with the old logo or the Lazzaro name in it. And they made lots of things nobody know today. Did you know that the hats of the Royal Canadian mounted Police actually were Borsalino's ? They made them in Alessandria. I guess later they were made under licence by canadian suppliers but I have no evidence of this. My man left Borsalino into pension in 1984 and he rearranged some of my old Borsalinos in his home studio. He said that Borsalino never since first world war made hats with the quality made in the 1960s. For a simple reason he said: The quality of hats depends on only three things: 1. The constant supply of highest quality rabbit fur from south america. 2. see 1. and 3. see also 1.
These supplies are difficult to organise and very sensible for troubles like war. Once shut down it lasts long years to get back in business. So Borsalino since 1914 was in constant trouble for good fur supply. In the 1960s finally, after nearly 20 years of peace and prosperity, it worked out well. The quality was superb, only the french customers constantly complained and sent back whole batches. Some millimeters of difference in hight of the head and they refused them. They hated the french customers but nevertheless: the Borsalinos sold to France in the 1960s were the very best hats Borsalino has ever made. That's what I remember of my encounter with one of the last living responsables of the old Borsalino Company.
I am terrible out of topic and annoying you guys, so back to the two hats above mentioned. Once they come back to Alessandria I will make some more fotos. I fear they both wont fit my head, I am a 56cm, 4 1/2 at the time or 7 1/8 today. So if someone of you is interested I pass them on, no problem.
Thats all for now, sorry to be long and out of topic, but I am italian now, and this is called "Chiacchiere" .... try to pronounce this
Thank you for the interesting side story. Would it be possible to take photos (and post here) of the large G.B.Borsalino Fu Lazzaro & C. factory building? Also any other factory buildings that still exist. Thanks!
Last edited:
genroda
New in Town
- Messages
- 13
- Location
- Alessandria, Italy
The Borsalino fu Lazzaro Company produced in two buildings in Alessandria. The main one was destroyed a couple of years ago in a typical barbaric act, common in Alessandria. They left the main art deco facade of the building but behind it they've created a entirely new cosntruction with apartments. I was even close to get one of theses. The second building still exists, you can have a quick view here:
https://fai-platform.imgix.net/medi...=40&fit=crop&markscale=16&markalign=top,right
The building is for sale right now and it is almost sure they will shut it down and put some idiotic commercial centre in this place. All the Borsalino's buildings were located in the centre of Alessandria. The G.B.Borsalino antica casa houses now the University of Alessandria and in the Sala dei campioni (The sample room) odd 2.000 hats in the Museum.
There is lots of interesting art deco architecture in Alessandria, very often financed by the Borsalino family. The Borsalino hospital for example, with it's church. A Jewel of Art Deco Architecture.
I will see if I can find the time to provide you with some more history of the Borsalino's businesses here in Alessandria.
- Messages
- 17,524
- Location
- Maryland
Thanks! That looks like the front section of the main the factory building. Do any of these other buildings still exists?
Last edited:
genroda
New in Town
- Messages
- 13
- Location
- Alessandria, Italy
The connection between the two building is here: Immagine the facade behind the modern building on the right hand side.
genroda
New in Town
- Messages
- 13
- Location
- Alessandria, Italy
sorry, i made a little mess with the pics. I am not used to post in forums.
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Thanks! It's a shame if they don't try to save this front section of the main factory + Gate / Entrance. The front Gate / Entrance is really fantastic. By the way what is your first name? Mine is Steve.
genroda
New in Town
- Messages
- 13
- Location
- Alessandria, Italy
Dear Steve,
the good one is that I obviously didn't explain myself well: The Gate-Entrance is safe. Its restored and makes the front of the new Building behind it. The pitty was, that the should but didn't safe a bit of the architecture of the building itself.
the bad one is: my Name is Stefan. Now we get a mess here
By the way the fact that Borsalino revived the old "fu Lazzaro" in the 50s/60s is astonishing. They had no new Trademark deposited in italy as far as I know. Only the one in the US 1976-1984.
One of the hats I've baught had indicated a shop in Rome which has recently closed. It was established in 1957 ! If I can I'll write to the owner who is still alive. Maybe he knows more about that later Lazzaro adventure.
My guess would be that Borsalino tried to parcel the company caused by immens trouble with the local unions. Like Lufthansa did founding Eurowings, Cityline, Germanwings ecc.
Do you have more info's about that ?
the good one is that I obviously didn't explain myself well: The Gate-Entrance is safe. Its restored and makes the front of the new Building behind it. The pitty was, that the should but didn't safe a bit of the architecture of the building itself.
the bad one is: my Name is Stefan. Now we get a mess here
By the way the fact that Borsalino revived the old "fu Lazzaro" in the 50s/60s is astonishing. They had no new Trademark deposited in italy as far as I know. Only the one in the US 1976-1984.
One of the hats I've baught had indicated a shop in Rome which has recently closed. It was established in 1957 ! If I can I'll write to the owner who is still alive. Maybe he knows more about that later Lazzaro adventure.
My guess would be that Borsalino tried to parcel the company caused by immens trouble with the local unions. Like Lufthansa did founding Eurowings, Cityline, Germanwings ecc.
Do you have more info's about that ?
- Messages
- 17,524
- Location
- Maryland
Stefan, It's sad they didn't include the old factory building in the restoration. I tend to think (like you) that it will not be salvaged.Dear Steve,
the good one is that I obviously didn't explain myself well: The Gate-Entrance is safe. Its restored and makes the front of the new Building behind it. The pitty was, that the should but didn't safe a bit of the architecture of the building itself.
the bad one is: my Name is Stefan. Now we get a mess here
By the way the fact that Borsalino revived the old "fu Lazzaro" in the 50s/60s is astonishing. They had no new Trademark deposited in italy as far as I know. Only the one in the US 1976-1984.
One of the hats I've baught had indicated a shop in Rome which has recently closed. It was established in 1957 ! If I can I'll write to the owner who is still alive. Maybe he knows more about that later Lazzaro adventure.
My guess would be that Borsalino tried to parcel the company caused by immens trouble with the local unions. Like Lufthansa did founding Eurowings, Cityline, Germanwings ecc.
Do you have more info's about that ?
I haven't seen any info about the use of G.B.Borsalino Fu Lazzaro & C. by Borsalino Giuseppe & Fratello. It's possible Daniele has some information. Any information you can provide would be very much appreciated.
genroda
New in Town
- Messages
- 13
- Location
- Alessandria, Italy
Hello Steve, I know what you surely know as well, that Borsalino registered a trademark in the US for Borsalino Lazzaro that was valid from 1976 and extinguished 1982. I have to make a visit to the Borsalino Museum. Its a shame that I was never there, but i really feared that the people emloyed there are just as incompetent as the people in the Borsalino shop opened in the centre of Alessandria in 1927. Don't even know if the Museum is accessible at the moment. But can find out obviously. Maybe Daniele knows more and was there before.
- Messages
- 17,524
- Location
- Maryland
Stefan, I don't think the museum will be able to provide any information. It would be interesting to know if there are any living + knowledgeable employees (production managers, ect.) of Borsalino Giuseppe & Fratello living in Alessandria that go back to the 1950s. Those type of people could possibly provide good insight. I am sure most have died but there still could be a handful around.
genroda
New in Town
- Messages
- 13
- Location
- Alessandria, Italy
I just had this guy interviewed 10 years ago. He was still over 80 when I met him. I presented him even a 1976-1982 type "Lazzaro" hat. I asked him about all those sweatbands, paper labels and that there are enthusiasts who always struggle with dating the hats. He said what we already knwow, that from the paper labels mainly only the model and the client are emerging. The liners and sweatbands got individually made at the clients request. The clients had the choice from a vast selection of different types of liners and all those indications like super, super, super beaver+++++ superiore etc. are marketing, nothing else. also that is common knowledge i guess. But on the Lazzaro he looked and first said that it was not theirs. He never saw that label and didn't know what Lazzaro meant unti l I told him about the factory in the 30s. Then he waked up and said "But that was THE OTHER one !" "But this was this competitor !!!" Her realised then what I was talking about. I asked him if after the merger of the two firms in 1937 ever a "Lazzaro" Brand emerged and he definately denied and said that he never heared about that. He left the company 1983 or 1984. However there must be something. One of the two hats i baught (the bowler) has a sweatband "Lazzaro" and "De Santis - Lido di Roma). De Santis was founded 1957 (!) and closed some years ago... A last thing he said to me and that made me stepping a bit back from all the hat-dating (which implements the experience that the older the better quality a item is), he got one 1960s Fedora hat in his hands, his eyes started to shine and he said: "This is a lovely hat, look about that superfine quality, and he manipulated the shape of the brim in front. The brim was moving and remained exactly in the given shape withput moving further. He looked at me and said that this is the highes achievable quality, when the felt can be modified by hand, without steam and at normal temperature and it remains in this very shape..... and with this short anecdote I wish you a nice weekend. As soon as I can get more info's, I will be back.
Fu Lazzaro Bowler Qualitá Finissima. Daniele posted photos and descriptions of this gem on the 12th January. I won't post too many photos of it here nor say too much about it, other than to say, I'm speechless at how this hat has survived in such wonderful condition during its approximate 100 years of existence.
Matt @Mean Eyed Matt originally bought it from Daniele, but sadly, it was a tad too small for him.
I'm grateful to Matt for giving me the opportunity to purchase it from him.
Needless to say, it will be worn and treasured
Matt @Mean Eyed Matt originally bought it from Daniele, but sadly, it was a tad too small for him.
I'm grateful to Matt for giving me the opportunity to purchase it from him.
Needless to say, it will be worn and treasured
Rmccamey
I'll Lock Up
- Messages
- 5,876
- Location
- Central Texas
Another stiff felt beauty.
Fu Lazzaro Bowler Qualitá Finissima. Daniele posted photos and descriptions of this gem on the 12th January. I won't post too many photos of it here nor say too much about it, other than to say, I'm speechless at how this hat has survived in such wonderful condition during its approximate 100 years of existence.
Matt @Mean Eyed Matt originally bought it from Daniele, but sadly, it was a tad too small for him. View attachment 310807 View attachment 310808 View attachment 310809 View attachment 310810
I'm grateful to Matt for giving me the opportunity to purchase it from him.
Needless to say, it will be worn and treasured
Daniele Tanto
I'll Lock Up
- Messages
- 4,255
- Location
- Verona - Italia
I'm really happy you have this bowler Steve and a little sad for Matt, but this is the"hats size law"
Complimenti for the attire and bowler
