French Hats and makers.

[mayserwegener]

Daniele, Fantastic! Any idea on the lettering? on the shield (see paper label)?

 

[moehawk]

I have not seen many of these up for sale on the secondary market. Only one, actually, and it had the Hermes name in it as well as Motsch Fils. I know of Hermes' reputation for quality (and high, high prices) so I figured that their hats must be pretty nice. When this one popped up on Etsy a few days ago for a decent price I couldn't help myself even though Iit was listed as a size 61.
It arrived yesterday. The seller's pics showed it to be a little bent up so I wasn't expecting anything pristine but this poor thing also suffered at the hands of an over-packager who had so much stuff wrapped around it that the brim was almost folded. I was hoping the seller measured it wrong, but alas, it was a couple sizes too big as I had feared. It shimmed down nicely with cork strips. so I can enjoy it and not have to trade it away.
Here's some pics.
Motsch Fils.

The factory sticker is also the tape that holds the swearband seam together.

Guessing Ecuyer & Thomas made it for Motsch Fils. Never heard of them.

Sweatband stamp, size tag and a hard to see liner crest.

Felt is quite nice, very little stiffener, soft but with a slightly hairy feel. 142g total weight. Brim is 2 1/2", open crown at 5 1/2". 1 1/2" ribbon.

Creased.

No clue about the age, but I would guess newer rather than older. But, I have been known to be wrong...any input always welcome!

Powered by happy thoughts

 

[Redfokker]

I have not seen many of these up for sale on the secondary market. Only one, actually, and it had the Hermes name in it as well as Motsch Fils. I know of Hermes' reputation for quality (and high, high prices) so I figured that their hats must be pretty nice. When this one popped up on Etsy a few days ago for a decent price I couldn't help myself even though Iit was listed as a size 61.
It arrived yesterday. The seller's pics showed it to be a little bent up so I wasn't expecting anything pristine but this poor thing also suffered at the hands of an over-packager who had so much stuff wrapped around it that the brim was almost folded. I was hoping the seller measured it wrong, but alas, it was a couple sizes too big as I had feared. It shimmed down nicely with cork strips. so I can enjoy it and not have to trade it away.
Here's some pics.
Motsch Fils.

The factory sticker is also the tape that holds the swearband seam together.

Guessing Ecuyer & Thomas made it for Motsch Fils. Never heard of them.

Sweatband stamp, size tag and a hard to see liner crest.

Felt is quite nice, very little stiffener, soft but with a slightly hairy feel. 142g total weight. Brim is 2 1/2", open crown at 5 1/2". 1 1/2" ribbon.

Creased.

No clue about the age, but I would guess newer rather than older. But, I have been known to be wrong...any input always welcome!

Powered by happy thoughts

Very nice John. It has some wonderful stories to tell I'm sure.

 

[moehawk]

Very nice John. It has some wonderful stories to tell I'm sure.

Thanks Mike!
Judging by the smell while steaming it, none of those stories include smoky bars. Thank goodness!

 

[Daniele Tanto]

Guessing Ecuyer & Thomas made it for Motsch Fils. Never heard of them.

Interview with Ms. Éliane Bolomier, curator and director of the Chapellerie Atelier-Musée du Chapeau de Chazelles-sur-Lyon.
"In 1976, when the four big factories closed, Fléchet, France, Morreton and Fournand - Beyron, in 1976 there remained only a small factory, the Écuyer-Thomas factory which closed in 1997. If it closed It was not because there was no market, but because Mr. Squire wanted to retire and he could not find anyone to take over his estate. It was quite dramatic, because big fashion houses, notably Hermes, used felts at Echuyer's house. They had great difficulties to find a felt of such good quality. Now they go to northern Italy where there is another small factory. At Chazelles the raw material was made at once, that is to say the felt bell, and it was turned into hats. Houses like Ecuyer-Thomas, like all factories, sold both hats and their felt bells to hatters-processors and milliners. In France there are always many hatters and milliners. Today the hatters-transformers, that is to say, who buy these felted bells and turn them into hats, just like millinery [creators of hats], are used abroad. Like us, since we have a small production workshop. There are six factories in Europe manufacturer of hair felt. There is one in Portugal, one in Spain, two in Italy, one in Poland and another in the Czech Republic. When you buy only a few bells of felt, you get supplies from wholesalers; but larger hatters with more employees buy directly from the factory. For example, for all our men's hats we buy our felt bells in Portugal. For women's hats we need more colors, so we use at wholesalers. There is always activity in France, but it is the hatters who make the transformation, or milliners of course who make the transformation of bells into hats. There is a lot of surface work on the material, allowing to obtain different qualities: velvet quality, etc. The hatters usually buy the bells at this stage. For example, we get them when they come out of the dye, since we have a workshop that allows us to do this work on the surface of the felt. "
John I have a very interesting Ecuyer & Thomas homburg I showed some time ago here in FL.

 

[moehawk]

Interview with Ms. Éliane Bolomier, curator and director of the Chapellerie Atelier-Musée du Chapeau de Chazelles-sur-Lyon.
"In 1976, when the four big factories closed, Fléchet, France, Morreton and Fournand - Beyron, in 1976 there remained only a small factory, the Écuyer-Thomas factory which closed in 1997. If it closed It was not because there was no market, but because Mr. Squire wanted to retire and he could not find anyone to take over his estate. It was quite dramatic, because big fashion houses, notably Hermes, used felts at Echuyer's house. They had great difficulties to find a felt of such good quality. Now they go to northern Italy where there is another small factory. At Chazelles the raw material was made at once, that is to say the felt bell, and it was turned into hats. Houses like Ecuyer-Thomas, like all factories, sold both hats and their felt bells to hatters-processors and milliners. In France there are always many hatters and milliners. Today the hatters-transformers, that is to say, who buy these felted bells and turn them into hats, just like millinery [creators of hats], are used abroad. Like us, since we have a small production workshop. There are six factories in Europe manufacturer of hair felt. There is one in Portugal, one in Spain, two in Italy, one in Poland and another in the Czech Republic. When you buy only a few bells of felt, you get supplies from wholesalers; but larger hatters with more employees buy directly from the factory. For example, for all our men's hats we buy our felt bells in Portugal. For women's hats we need more colors, so we use at wholesalers. There is always activity in France, but it is the hatters who make the transformation, or milliners of course who make the transformation of bells into hats. There is a lot of surface work on the material, allowing to obtain different qualities: velvet quality, etc. The hatters usually buy the bells at this stage. For example, we get them when they come out of the dye, since we have a workshop that allows us to do this work on the surface of the felt. "
John I have a very interesting Ecuyer & Thomas homburg I showed some time ago here in FL.

Thank you for this information, Daniele!
Ecuyer & Thomas products must be fairly rare, as I didn't see much info about them online.
Do you still have the Homburg?

 

[Daniele Tanto]

Thank you for this information, Daniele!
Ecuyer & Thomas products must be fairly rare, as I didn't see much info about them online.
Do you still have the Homburg?

Yes John I still have the homburg made in France in the Ecuyer & Thomas facility.
It is a "member" of the "diplomatiques de France". A series of homburg I bought in "A. Meer" remains in the past years and some Others in the EU market
I will provide some pictures as soon as I can

 

[moehawk]

Yes John I still have the homburg made in France in the Ecuyer & Thomas facility.
It is a "member" of the "diplomatiques de France". A series of homburg I bought in "A. Meer" remains in the past years and some Others in the EU market
I will provide some pictures as soon as I can

Thanks!
I'm interested to know if the factory tag is the same and used as the seam tape like on mine. Looking forward to pics.

 

[steur]

I have not seen many of these up for sale on the secondary market. Only one, actually, and it had the Hermes name in it as well as Motsch Fils. I know of Hermes' reputation for quality (and high, high prices) so I figured that their hats must be pretty nice. When this one popped up on Etsy a few days ago for a decent price I couldn't help myself even though Iit was listed as a size 61.
It arrived yesterday. The seller's pics showed it to be a little bent up so I wasn't expecting anything pristine but this poor thing also suffered at the hands of an over-packager who had so much stuff wrapped around it that the brim was almost folded. I was hoping the seller measured it wrong, but alas, it was a couple sizes too big as I had feared. It shimmed down nicely with cork strips. so I can enjoy it and not have to trade it away.
Here's some pics.
Motsch Fils.

The factory sticker is also the tape that holds the swearband seam together.

Guessing Ecuyer & Thomas made it for Motsch Fils. Never heard of them.

Sweatband stamp, size tag and a hard to see liner crest.

Felt is quite nice, very little stiffener, soft but with a slightly hairy feel. 142g total weight. Brim is 2 1/2", open crown at 5 1/2". 1 1/2" ribbon.

Creased.

No clue about the age, but I would guess newer rather than older. But, I have been known to be wrong...any input always welcome!

Powered by happy thoughts

Cool hat and quite rare brand. Never seen one before.

 

[moehawk]

Cool hat and quite rare brand. Never seen one before.

Thanks!
I only bought it because I know the reputation of Hermes and wanted to see what kind of quality the company they would choose as their hat supplier made.
Glad I did!

 

[Daniele Tanto]

Thanks!
I'm interested to know if the factory tag is the same and used as the seam tape like on mine. Looking forward to pics.

Here there are the pics of Ecuyer & Thomas fresh made for your pleasure

The felt is very light and malleable with a medium finish in the Others components

The sweatband is thin and a little bit poor. It seems a mid season homburg

The felt and the color are astounding. It seems made before the WWII
No paper label inside, but only the size tag

 

[Redfokker]

Here there are the pics of Ecuyer & Thomas fresh made for your pleasure

The felt is very light and malleable with a medium finish in the Others components

The sweatband is thin and a little bit poor. It seems a mid season homburg

The felt and the color are astounding. It seems made before the WWII
No paper label inside, but only the size tag

Wow! This one is really special Daniele. The color is phenomenal!

 

[moehawk]

Here there are the pics of Ecuyer & Thomas fresh made for your pleasure

The felt is very light and malleable with a medium finish in the Others components

The sweatband is thin and a little bit poor. It seems a mid season homburg

The felt and the color are astounding. It seems made before the WWII
No paper label inside, but only the size tag

That is a beautiful color. I can imagine how nice the felt must be. A shame there aren't more of them around to enjoy.

 

[AbbaDatDeHat]

Greetings All:
I believe this might be the best place to pose this question.
Can anybody point me in the right direction to find out information concerning The Berteil Hat manufacture of Paris? I have a lovely example i want to post but first i would like to have enough knowledge base to carry out an intelligent conversation. I do know Borsalino began his hat making career as a worker at Berteil, some 5 years and allegedly took with him a “hand full of felt” from a vat when he left to begin his endeavors. Info seems in short supply.
So, any referrals would be welcomed.
Be well. Bowen

 

[steur]

Here there are the pics of Ecuyer & Thomas fresh made for your pleasure

The felt is very light and malleable with a medium finish in the Others components

The sweatband is thin and a little bit poor. It seems a mid season homburg

The felt and the color are astounding. It seems made before the WWII
No paper label inside, but only the size tag

Fantastic homburg, Daniele. Like the other have said: a great colour.

 

[steur]

Greetings All:
I believe this might be the best place to pose this question.
Can anybody point me in the right direction to find out information concerning The Berteil Hat manufacture of Paris? I have a lovely example i want to post but first i would like to have enough knowledge base to carry out an intelligent conversation. I do know Borsalino began his hat making career as a worker at Berteil, some 5 years and allegedly took with him a “hand full of felt” from a vat when he left to begin his endeavors. Info seems in short supply.
So, any referrals would be welcomed.
Be well. Bowen

I'm afraid there is precious little to be found on French hatmaking anywhere, Bowen. Information is scarce on the subject both on the internet or in print to the point of non-existant. I haven't been able to find anything of any substance on Berteil (or other French hatmakers for that matter). The Maison Berteil still exists, but is a retailer these days.

 

[AbbaDatDeHat]

I'm afraid there is precious little to be found on French hatmaking anywhere, Bowen. Information is scarce on the subject both on the internet or in print to the point of non-existant. I haven't been able to find anything of any substance on Berteil (or other French hatmakers for that matter). The Maison Berteil still exists, but is a retailer these days.

I as well. I’ll put something together, thought i’d ask about first. Thank you. It is quite a hat and quite old. I look forward to sharing. Bowen

 

[Daniele Tanto]

Wow! This one is really special Daniele. The color is phenomenal!

That is a beautiful color. I can imagine how nice the felt must be. A shame there aren't more of them around to enjoy.

Fantastic homburg, Daniele. Like the other have said: a great colour.

Thank you for your appreciation. I had some problems with the home computer and I was dumb these days.
Ecuyer & Thomas were producers of felt mainly for the hatters of the region, the heart of the French hats production in the glorious days.
The French hats of the time have very precise characteristics: very well constructed and of great quality in felts and other components, they often have a sweatband of modest quality. Some of them are masterpieces for colors and elegance.
Today the Ecuyer & Thomas will be on air

 

[steur]

Picked this one up last week. It was listed as a bowler (and used as such), but it didn't look like a bowler to me. Tirard Fréres Supra homburg in black. Size 57 with a brim at 6cm and the crown 10,5 cm at the pinch. It's an earlier one, because it still has the name Tirard Fréres in the liner and sweatband. I have another Tirard which just has Tirard as the brand name. I cannot find anything useful on the brand online however, so I can't tell when the change happened.

 

[mayserwegener]

Stefan, Great find! It has a fantastic form. I really like the bow design / work. Overall super!