Freewheelers worth it

[Aloysius]

On the right it shows they used the 'butterfly' technique to flatten the halfbelt seam. Too fancy for a workwear style jacket imo.

There's a Freewheelers jacket that continually pops up here. The leather looks beautiful and it's clearly expensively made, but the seams are so invisible that it looks really off. The arm in particular looks like someone could tear it off with a tug. This might not be the case, but I wouldn't want a jacket looking that way either.

 

[jeo]

I feel like (some of the) Freewheelers jackets are too perfect, they're over-engineered. The Japanese use fancy construction techniques that make a jacket look 'cleaner' but by doing so they take the character out of the jacket.

Maybe other people won't notice these subtle differences and even if they did they might not care, but for me this is the reason why I don't wear my FW jacket all that much. I feel like it lacks character.

Their Peters and Leathertogs repros are really good though. They did a terrific job reproducing the original fits while incorporating all their elaborate details, including true to original construction techniques.

View attachment 499069
FL vs FW

On the right it shows they used the 'butterfly' technique to flatten the halfbelt seam. Too fancy for a workwear style jacket imo.

Interesting discussion about character to be had here. I'd love to hear yours and everyone else's expanded thoughts on what they consider to be character.

What I see in the example you showed is a continuous curve on the FW vs. a more chopped up curve on the Field. Not saying one is more sloppy or better than the other, but that's not what I consider character.

I'm also not saying that construction techniques cannot affect the character of the jacket. A great example is FCL. For certain areas of their jackets, especially around pockets, they use a specific thread, sewn at a specific angle ,set at a specific tension to create a puckering effect much like on old denim.

To me character is 99% about the leather. Unless the leather is specifically designed to not age, all leather jackets have or will develop character that will...supersede, if you will, any kind of construction technique.

Even if there's no character for a while, it will develop. There have been countless people that criticized Aero CXL or LW HH for not having character. I always use to think "you're giving up too quickly!" Most of those jackets just need to be truly lived in for a long time for the character to appear.

I totally get the almost clinically precise nature of the Japanese construction techniques that can seem "too perfect", but lets face it, these jackets are made by human beings and not by alien robots. To achieve that level of mastery of craftsmanship is really quite impressive and beautiful and to say that they have no character because of clean construction techniques IMO is incorrect. Besides, the "way too clean" look of the jackets when new isn't really noticeable when they get worn in.

Some examples of that. These jackets have character out the wazoo.

Having said ALL that, there is absolutely something about seeing "the hand of the artist" on a piece that makes it...oh I don't know...special. But there's a fine line between that and (certain people) passing off sloppiness as character.

 

[jeo]

To me, there is something way too artificial about them. Too contrived.

Is this something specific for you (neatness or otherwise) or just the general look, maybe something you can't quite put your finger on?

For me what is contrived about FW is when they put curves into the patterns (the shoulders come to mind) to imitate wear or a broken in look. I don't like that at all. What I dislike even more and think is contrived is when companies distress/wash/burnish/emboss leathers. The teacore thing to a lesser extent since they don't typically fade that fast from my experience.

 

[JMax]

General. In spite of marketing, IG, etc., they don’t look as functional as I would want/need a jacket to be. I’ll leave it at that and bow out if this convo now lol.

They can be something to look at though, I’ll admit that.

 

[Aloysius]

I think there’s merit to both of your points but to an extent it’s really a jacket-by-jacket thing. The one I linked, for instance, has a ‘delicate’ look that I don’t think the ones you shared do.

 

[jeo]

@JMax why man?! I really value yours and everyone else's opinions and sometimes the things you guys say make me think of things differently and perhaps change my mind.

@Aloysius I agree with you on both points and that the jacket doesn't look like workwear.

 

[Guppy]

I have to wonder how many of the opinions that they're not worth it are coming from people who have owned something from FW, vs people who have convinced themselves that they're too expensive to be worth it because they are out of their price range.

 

[JMax]

Most people here have been around the block enough times to know what they want in a jacket. Other makers are preferred, that’s it.

 

[Aloysius]

I have to wonder how many of the opinions that they're not worth it are coming from people who have owned something from FW, vs people who have convinced themselves that they're too expensive to be worth it because they are out of their price range.

I don’t know but I can say for certain that a lot of the fetishizing of JAPANESE WORKWEAR as though that were a monolithic category comes from people who don’t own it. Remember the thread about “Why can’t western brands compete with JAPANESE quality?”

 

[ton312]

I have to wonder how many of the opinions that they're not worth it are coming from people who have owned something from FW, vs people who have convinced themselves that they're too expensive to be worth it because they are out of their price range.

Do you have to own one to come the conclusion they aren’t worth it?

“I’m going to spend $3k on a jacket I can’t return to convince myself what I already suspect to be true based on years of collecting experience across a huge swath of makers… that it’s not worth it.” LOL.

I wonder how all those people shedding their Mulholland’s over the past few years in the classifieds feel about them being worth it?

Edit^ b/c…LOOL.

 

[navetsea]

Interesting discussion about character to be had here. I'd love to hear yours and everyone else's expanded thoughts on what they consider to be character.

What I see in the example you showed is a continuous curve on the FW vs. a more chopped up curve on the Field. Not saying one is more sloppy or better than the other, but that's not what I consider character.

I'm also not saying that construction techniques cannot affect the character of the jacket. A great example is FCL. For certain areas of their jackets, especially around pockets, they use a specific thread, sewn at a specific angle ,set at a specific tension to create a puckering effect much like on old denim.


View attachment 499312 View attachment 499311


To me character is 99% about the leather. Unless the leather is specifically designed to not age, all leather jackets have or will develop character that will...supersede, if you will, any kind of construction technique.

Even if there's no character for a while, it will develop. There have been countless people that criticized Aero CXL or LW HH for not having character. I always use to think "you're giving up too quickly!" Most of those jackets just need to be truly lived in for a long time for the character to appear.

I totally get the almost clinically precise nature of the Japanese construction techniques that can seem "too perfect", but lets face it, these jackets are made by human beings and not by alien robots. To achieve that level of mastery of craftsmanship is really quite impressive and beautiful and to say that they have no character because of clean construction techniques IMO is incorrect. Besides, the "way too clean" look of the jackets when new isn't really noticeable when they get worn in.

Some examples of that. These jackets have character out the wazoo.

View attachment 499314 View attachment 499315 View attachment 499316 View attachment 499317 View attachment 499318 View attachment 499319 View attachment 499320


Having said ALL that, there is absolutely something about seeing "the hand of the artist" on a piece that makes it...oh I don't know...special. But there's a fine line between that and (certain people) passing off sloppiness as character.

totally agree, character is in the leather and how the feature of the jacket is used normally by us the wearer, if the jacket has a pocket then use the pocket too, I don't like premade character like pocket trim/ welt designed to be sagging/ curving / gaping from new, if you want the pocket to sag then just use the pocket until the leather sags naturally, I also don't care about deliberate sloppiness in construction to portray character.

 

[ProteinNerd]

They do make beautiful looking jackets but a jacket can cost a fortune, have the most expensive leather known to man, be stitched by the greatest craftsman to have ever lived, but if the actual pattern doesn't fit your particular frame / body type then its still not going to look or feel great on you and you will just be subsidizing someone else's purchase when you sell it at half the price.

Have you tried one on? I think that would answer your question with more authority than asking a bunch of leather jacket addicts whether you should buy a jacket or not lol

 

[MrProper]

If you're wondering if it's worth it, then it's not worth it.
Maybe you meant to ask a different question, like "does the jacket have a good resale value?" or "am I paying for the materials and craftsmanship or just the name?"
I think whether something is worthwhile is too often too subjective to ask others.
If you want something and then have fun with it, it's worth it. Otherwise, no.

 

[TheDonEffect]

Funny this thread popped up. I was cruising around the city today and walked into a store that happened to stock them. Coming across shinki leather or Japanese leather is rare treat indeed so I had to indulge.

Fine creek Alonso, my goodness what a jacjet. Lack of character? Kidding me, this leather was hypnotizing.

I get why FCL, and the JDM makes, are so highly regarded, it's just laser like perfection, everything was refined. The whole jacket just exuded quality.

But I didn't want to try it on because I can't fit Japanese stuff lol, but they insisted, I normally wear a 44 but only the 46 fit... I just couldn't bend my arms past 90, or move in general. Had to ask my wife to straighten my collar lol, had a rough arm workout early this morning too lol.

But the fact that I was able to even put it on, zip it up, and actually move my arms reasonably well was astonishing. With no gussets i usually have a hard time extending my arms forward but I was easily able to. Even with the high arm holes Ivwas able to get it on. There are plenty of schotts I can't even put on let alone move in.

Anyway, beautiful jacket, very flattering fit of it works for you.

Is it worth it? Here's the thing, these makers make these jackets to appeal to a niche crowd. The fit is very specific and not universal, which means when it hits, it's a homerun, and it'll leave an impression that you won't be able to replicate, which is to say priceless.

Is it worth it to me? No way. I don't mind a little more crudeness, like some things are supposed to be a bit rough around the edges. For instance I don't own any Yeti stuff. And I prefer functional fit, and this don't fit me like that.

But is it worth it? Yes. You're getting a high level craftsmanship, materials, etc. As you go up in anything in the world it's always diminishing returns.

 

[navetsea]

basically we have 2 routes here; leather jacket that is built with you in mind with details of your own choice vs a jacket that is produced to their own spec let say the expensive and more perfectly stitched Schott... which one make you happier?

I imagine if you want a special connection with the jacket if you want to be in control of things, when this process and your own contribution and input into the design is what feed your fire then perhaps RTW jacket is not not worth your money, perhaps you would be even happier with 5* project because the project is more memorable and you feel part of you is in the jacket.

on contrary if you just want to enjoy or fall in love with certain model and just want exactly that then probably it is worth your money.

 

[Marc mndt]

I'd love to hear yours and everyone else's expanded thoughts on what they consider to be character.

I recently elaborated on this in another thread when it was discussed why FW is 'better' than Y2.

This is not about sloppy vs neat. For me the lack of character is in the construction techniques they use, they (=rainbow country) use techniques that make a jacket look 'cleaner'. Yes some of those techniques were also used back in the days but not everywhere throughout the jacket. Here's a few of the examples I used in that other thread.

When I put on one of these over-engineered jackets I feel like I'm wearing formal wear instead of the workwear it is supposed to be a reproduction of.

Exceptions are their Leathertogs and Peter's reproductions. Those are made pretty much exactly like the originals were made, no over-engineering.

 

[Brandrea33]

it could also be me, maybe my arms are just short. the FW I've had were all about half an inch too long in the sleeves

Well there you have it then … sounds like they’ve made the arms somewhere in the middle which should work out for most lol

 

[Guppy]

Do you have to own one to come the conclusion they aren’t worth it?

“I’m going to spend $3k on a jacket I can’t return to convince myself what I already suspect to be true based on years of collecting experience across a huge swath of makers… that it’s not worth it.” LOL.

I wonder how all those people shedding their Mulholland’s over the past few years in the classifieds feel about them being worth it?
View attachment 499494
Edit^ b/c…LOOL.

You don't have to have owned one to have an opinion, but I would consider the opinion of an owner to be more valid, since they have actual experience.

Of course it could work both ways, the owner convincing themself it has to be worth it because if it's not then they've wasted a lot of money.

I'd rather hear what owners have to say than someone who has only looked at pictures and price tags.

 

[ton312]

You don't have to have owned one to have an opinion, but I would consider the opinion of an owner to be more valid, since they have actual experience.

Of course it could work both ways, the owner convincing themself it has to be worth it because if it's not then they've wasted a lot of money.

I'd rather hear what owners have to say than someone who has only looked at pictures and price tags.

And probably those who paid full retail as opposed to those who bought at deep discounts in the used market.

 

[JMax]

Experience and trust can trump ownership. Most owners have little experience. And certainly less than the folks on here that I trust.

To your repeated point (dig) about price tags, certainly a self-described whale such as yourself paid full retail for their FW?