Formal Wear Primer

[boushi_mania]

How much would people be willing to pay for silk top hats? In the last year I think I've probably seen 15-20 silk plush top hats, ranging in size from 55cm to 59cm (US 6 7/8 to US 7 3/8). The most expensive was $62, but I bought mine (59cm) for $18. Shipping might be a problem (potential damage to the hat? I'd have no idea how to safely pack a topper), and it's a bit on the expensive side in Sweden, but I'd be willing to post any I find at no profit for myself..

Actually, let me check how much postage would cost (I can use my topper for dimensions and weight etc.), and then I'll start a thread or something. Can see what sizes I should keep my eye open for, etc. Carry on for now.

Where do you find them at such prices?! I counted myself lucky to buy one off a fellow Lounger for less than $100. But $62 at the most?

 

[Lokar]

Sweden is terrible for finding almost everything (shoes, suits, felt hats, the list goes on). Silk toppers, however, for some bizarre reason, crop up so much. I've seen more silk toppers than fur felt hats. How mad is that?

Hell, next time I see a tiny size (say, 55cm), I'm going to buy it and just have it as decoration. Give it a wet polish and throw it on a hat stand. I'm too scared to do that with my actual topper, as I'd hate it to get damaged.

 

[dhermann1]

Silk toppers, however, for some bizarre reason, crop up so much. I've seen more silk toppers than fur felt hats. How mad is that?

Probably all those Nobel Prize winners unloading their outfits. lol

 

[Charlie Huang]

Lokar, I am trying to source silk toppers in the following sizes for my friends:

60 and 61 (i.e. UK 7 3/8 and 7 1/2)

If you do find one, please let me know via PM or whatever medium!

 

[boushi_mania]

Here's a headwear-related question.

I know that a homburg is appropriate to wear with a dinner suit (tuxedo), and a homburg or bowler is fine for a stroller (black lounge). But what about during the summer months? I've seen pictures of people in white dinner jackets wearing boaters, but is this also appropriate for when the jacket is still black?

 

[Tomasso]

is this also appropriate for when the jacket is still black?

Yep.

 

[boushi_mania]

Yep.

http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e141/tmgco/ManjouAdolph1.jpg

That was fast.

The same goes for semi-formal daywear, then?

 

[Charlie Huang]

That was fast.

The same goes for semi-formal daywear, then?

Erm, not really. You see, black lounge is considered 'business wear' and a boater would be inappropriate by that definition. DJ were always associated with partying and stag-dos so they could wear a boater given by that relaxed social heritage.

On a lounge suit, blazer, etc, yes.

 

[Feraud]

A 1930s dated single breasted tux.

 

[Charlie Huang]

Oh, almost forgot, here's my two vintage finds:

Had a number of flaws which I have repaired. One was a big crusty stain in one of the outer pockets. I had to cut that section of the lining off (the dry cleaning did nothing) and graft a new piece of lining onto the remaining lining. One of the cuff buttons were broken; had to replace it (and the one on the other cuff so that they match). Didn't want to replace all of the buttons and anyways they look the same unless examined closely. Other repairs include re-sewing the cufflink button and stablising the peak lapel points which was coming away from the collar due to loose thread.

The waistcoat needed to have repairs on the underarm seam as it was spliting. I hand sewn in shut and now its done. Rather shorter than my other one so this is meant for high-rise trousers.

 

[anon`]

A 1930s dated single breasted tux.

That tag lies! This can't be from 1938... it has notch lapels!

 

[Tomasso]

That tag lies! This can't be from 1938... it has notch lapels!

Well, this is easily explained. It's the exception that proves the rule.....and.....the man who ordered that bespoke garment was no gentleman......and.......the idiot tailor who made that garment for the classless dolt should have been stripped of his shears and banned from the biz....and.................

 

[Charlie Huang]

Are you sure it's 1938 and not 1958???

 

[bradbunnin]

The BlackTie Guide has at least one photo of a black dinner jacket with a notch lapel, in the Vintage section. As I recall, the jacket dates from the teens. And I've seen several other pre-WWII images of similar dinner jackets. They're not common, but they existed and they were worn. So it's likely that the named and dated dinner jacket does, indeed, sport a notch lapel and an authentic 1938 dated label.

 

[AlanC]

Just throwing this in:

 

[anon`]

The BlackTie Guide has at least one photo of a black dinner jacket with a notch lapel, in the Vintage section. As I recall, the jacket dates from the teens. And I've seen several other pre-WWII images of similar dinner jackets. They're not common, but they existed and they were worn. So it's likely that the named and dated dinner jacket does, indeed, sport a notch lapel and an authentic 1938 dated label.

Perhaps you missed the overt and excessive use of cheeky smileys in my comment...

 

[Lokar]

The BlackTie Guide has at least one photo of a black dinner jacket with a notch lapel, in the Vintage section. As I recall, the jacket dates from the teens. And I've seen several other pre-WWII images of similar dinner jackets. They're not common, but they existed and they were worn. So it's likely that the named and dated dinner jacket does, indeed, sport a notch lapel and an authentic 1938 dated label.

There was a previous thread that turned into a several hundred post discussion about notch lapels during the golden era. I think they were just joking around now.

 

[avedwards]

Can someone tell me when dress shirts with covered buttons came about? The sort where a piece of material runs across the buttons, called a fly front I believe.

The only dress shirt I have is like this and I'll be wearing it on Tuesday. However, having aquired a vintage shawl lapel DJ and a vintage black waistcoat (damn difficult to find) yesterday, and having a vintage homburg on its way to me I want to make sure that my dress shirt doesn't fail me. I've put too much effort and money into assembling a decent black tie outfit, so I'd hate to be incorrect due to such a small detail. I realise these dress shirts exist today and are seen as correct, but I'm interested in period accuracy. My waistcoat is 1930s and the jacket and hat are 50s, so the look I'm aiming for is early to mid 50s.

It just so happens that all the debate over notched lapels convinced me to go with the much safer shawl. Notched may be correct, but may look a bit odd with a waistcoat and I wanted to elevate the formality of my outift.

 

[dhermann1]

Marc Chevalier says that with a shawl collar dinner jacket a cummerbund is best. I tried a black waistcoat with my shawl collar, and it didn't quite look right. I got the old fashioned type with four buttons close to the bottom (as opposed to the ones with six buttons that have a higher neckline that are common now). Next time I wear it I'm gonna try the cummerbund.
I'm not so sure about the fly front shirt (if that's what it should be called.) Never saw that on anyone. A plain tab collar shirt, or a shirt with the wider style ruffle front should be fine. Again, with a tab collar, rather than a stand up.
Before I found the Lounge I would not have made any of the above suggestions, but after reading this thread a thousand times, I think that's the advice you'll get from most folks here. The shawl collar is one of the more casual formal styles available (is that an oxymoron?), so I guess that's why the cummerbund and tab collar would be advisable.
The homburg definitely gets a thumbs up! I feel like a million bucks (all green and wrinkled . . . ba dump bump) when I wear it. However I'm thinking of wearing my black bowler with the get up next time. I think it might be more Runyonesque.

 

[Charlie Huang]

From all the pictures I have seen, I have not come across one with a shirt with a fly front. I think it is one of those modern innovations like using normal MOP buttons rather than studs. Certainly, I don't think it is traditional at least in the period you are specifying.