Formal Wear Primer

[Midnight Blue]

I think it was very common in weddings, as is the groom wearing a white dinner jacket while the rest wear black. it may not be proper but it was done a lot. (I am commneting on late 50 to 60's pictures I know nothing about earlier)

Actually, white dinner jackets have been absolutely correct for hot weather weddings ever since the 1940s. However, white bow ties are an absolute faux pas with black tie, no matter what President Obama's poor taste in formal wear may suggest.

 

[Corky]

The Duke of Windsor introduced Midnight Blue Tux in 1920's

A fashion leader of the Art Deco era was Edward, Prince of Wales (1894-1972), the son of King George V. A handsome, eligible bachelor, he was a major figure in the London social scene. His penchant for golfing, cocktails, and setting the latest fashion trend meant that eyes were always trained on his doings. Like many other Princes of Wales, he had a long tenure in that role. This gave him plenty of time to make subtle, but critical,
dress alterations. He disliked the heavy Victorian and Edwardian clothing regulations that governed his father and grandfather, choosing instead more comfortable shirts and trousers that permitted greater freedom of movement.

Edward introduced the midnight blue evening suit in the 1920s, understanding instinctively that blue looked better than black for tailoring details when one was being photographed by the press. By the early 1930s, he wore unlined, unstructured jackets, abandoned trouser braces for belts, and had his trousers made with cuffs. He also championed the transition from button to zipper flies. All in all, his fashion leadership presaged the greater social changes of the urban man.

His tenure as King of England lasted barely a year, when he abdicated in December 1936 to marry the woman he loved: American divorcee Wallis Simpson (view a video clip). The hullaballoo over his romance with Simpson sounds odd to our modern ears, so jaded as we are with moral lapses from even those highly placed. Whether you read the official biography of his life, or examine the complexities and contradictions of what he became as Duke of Windsor (he and his wife hobnobbed with Hitler, among other questionable figures), you'd have to agree that his effect on masculine fashion was a positive one.

http://www.nypl.org/blogs/subject/duke-windsor

* * * * * * * *

ALSO: OBAMA's Formal Wear choice (black business suit with white tie) was not dictated by poor taste. President Obama wore a black Bullet-Resistant Suit at Inaugural Ball.

According to some reports, he wore a suit made by a clothier specializing in bullet-resistant clothing during the inauguration ceremonies and balls.

While no one from the U.S. Secret Service have yet to mention any details about the garment's structure, some are speculating it may have come from the line by Colombian designer Miguel Caballero. Caballero is well known for his super tough but flexible and business appropriate clothing, such as a $7,500 polo shirt that can stop a shot from a 9-mm revolver.

According to Caballero, many of his garments offer more than three levels of ballistic protection and they are about seven times more flexible than the Kevlar vests that are usually worn. Designers that use Kevlar tie together dense strands of the material (500 to 1,500 filaments per strand of yarn, according to Slate), which is then weaved into the clothing.

http://blog.wired.com/gadgets/2009/01/president-oba-1.html

 

[Midnight Blue]

ALSO: OBAMA's Formal Wear choice (black business suit with white tie) was not dictated by poor taste. President Obama wore a black Bullet-Resistant Suit at Inaugural Ball. According to some reports, he wore a suit made by a clothier specializing in bullet-resistant clothing during the inauguration ceremonies and balls.
http://blog.wired.com/gadgets/2009/01/president-oba-1.html

You're mixing up his outfits. His suit was for the inauguration itself (as per the article you quoted). For the ball(s) afterwards he wore an off-the-rack Hart Schaffner Marx tuxedo. Thus, his choice of a notched lapel, 2-button, single vent, flap pocket style for his dinner jacket was indeed poor taste by traditional standards and is unfortunately part of an ongoing pattern in regards to formal wear. (His white-tie getup at the 2006 Gridiron Club Dinner was a particular travesty.)

 

[DocMustang]

ALSO: OBAMA's Formal Wear choice (black business suit with white tie) was not dictated by poor taste. President Obama wore a black Bullet-Resistant Suit at Inaugural Ball.

According to some reports, he wore a suit made by a clothier specializing in bullet-resistant clothing during the inauguration ceremonies and balls.

One would think that if Obama needed one, a bullet resistant dinner jacket with the proper cut could have been made for him. So could a proper tailcoat and vest for that matter. The cut of the dinner jacket was not the issue. Unless the tie was not really white but manufactured of super-reflective, laser beam emitting fiber optic, sniper blinding fabric with built in flare launcher, the tie should have been black!

 

[Mike in Seattle]

One would think that if Obama needed one, a bullet resistant dinner jacket with the proper cut could have been made for him. So could a proper tailcoat and vest for that matter. The cut of the dinner jacket was not the issue. Unless the tie was not really white but manufactured of super-reflective, laser beam emitting fiber optic, sniper blinding fabric with built in flare launcher, the tie should have been black!

Exactly what I was thinking. If you're paying $7500 fo the outfit, surely they can make one that's proper for the occasion. Or they could've found someone else who could do the same quality and workmanship...perhaps an American designer since he's all about saving American jobs?

 

[Midnight Blue]

Like I mentioned a couple of posts before, the OP was mixing up Obama's(dinner) suits. The suit he wore to the ceremony was bullet resistant, not the dinner jacket he wore to the balls.

 

[metropd]

I voted for a man Who looks EVEN WORSE THAN GEORGE BUSH in White Tie!!!! I am dialing Jack Kevorkian's number as we speak.............

 

[Guttersnipe]

Formal = White Tie....Semi-Formal = Black Tie. The outfit that you're describing sounds like something one might wear to a Creative Black Tie event, like the Academy Awards.

I'm not sure that this is correct. Formal attire can consist of white-tie, black-tie, or dinner attire (unfaced dinner jackets, etc). What mode of formal wear depends on the event. The term "semi-formal" refers to suits. If an invitation calls for semi-formal attire it means a sportcoat and slacks is to casual for the event, and a tie isdefinitely required. I've been to many "semi-formal" events and never seen tuxedos worn.

 

[metropd]

I'm not sure that this is correct. Formal attire can consist of white-tie, black-tie, or dinner attire (unfaced dinner jackets, etc). What mode of formal wear depends on the event. The term "semi-formal" refers to suits. If an invitation calls for semi-formal attire it means a sportcoat and slacks is to casual for the event, and a tie isdefinitely required. I've been to many "semi-formal" events and never seen tuxedos worn.

Tomasso is right semi-formal=Dinner jacket(tuxedo) after 6pm and a stroller jacket before 6pm. There was even an article in in The Editorial of GQ last year that firmly states this just as it has always been. That doesn't mean people know anything, let alone follow the rules.

 

[Tomasso]

I'm not sure that this is correct.

Read.

 

[Guttersnipe]

Interesting . . .

Tomasso is right semi-formal=Dinner jacket(tuxedo) after 6pm and a stroller jacket before 6pm. There was even an article in in The Editorial of GQ last year that firmly states this just as it has always been. That doesn't mean people know anything, let alone follow the rules.

Read.

Interesting. I've seen the term semi-formal used to describe dinner jacket dress in "vintage" contexts a lot but not in a modern context before. I thought the terms white/black tie had replaced them.

That wiki link is great - although it intimates that you can't wear a white waistcoat with black tie - which I disagree with!

 

[metropd]

Evening Dress
White tie=formal
black tie=semi formal

I do agree with you about the waistcoat. As Emily Post ,and many style icons of the 20's would agree that a white pique waistcoat is a great way to brighten up a black tie outfit.

 

[Tomasso]

"Before the War, while black tie was still gaining acceptance, men would wear a white waistcoat, along with other details such as stiff fronted shirts; this was to create a more formal effect when for example ladies were present."

 

[flat-top]

I'm attending a very special formal occasion this winter. I found a great suit/ tux--tone on tone black pinstripes, single breasted with a velvet shawl collar. Not vintage, but looks it.
I'd like to customize it a bit however. I found a great pair of very dressy 1920's style suspenders. I'm thinking of removing the belt loops completely and utilizing the suspenders.
My question: will this make the whole ensemble look less formal or wrong?
I haven't purchased anything yet, but this is one of my options.

Well, that special event was my wedding, and I didn't opt for the above ensemble.
I found a great 1930's suit that fit the occasion perfectly!

 

[lazydaisyltd]

Wow, you guys look great! :eusa_clap

 

[metropd]

Well, that special event was my wedding, and I didn't opt for the above ensemble.
I found a great 1930's suit that fit the occasion perfectly!

Congratulations, you have all of my best wishes!:eusa_clap :eusa_clap

 

[Midnight Blue]

Interesting. I've seen the term semi-formal used to describe dinner jacket dress in "vintage" contexts a lot but not in a modern context before. I thought the terms white/black tie had replaced them.

That wiki link is great - although it intimates that you can't wear a white waistcoat with black tie - which I disagree with!

Yes, the terms white tie and black tie are much more practical than "formal" and "semi-formal". The former are (relatively) fixed definitions while the latter have been subjective concepts ever since WWII and vary depending on geographic and socio-economic factors.

As for the white waistcoat, metropd is right that while it is not standard for black tie it is certainly acceptable.

 

[Guttersnipe]

Well, that special event was my wedding, and I didn't opt for the above ensemble.
I found a great 1930's suit that fit the occasion perfectly!

Now that's a suit you could cut glass with! You both look fantastic, congrats!

 

[Evan Everhart]

Sorry to rant, I feel VERY Passionately about Frock Coats!

May I ask when is/was the appropriate time for a frock suit? What should be worn with it?

A Frock Coat (not technically speaking, a suit) was appropriate for all day-time functions aside from the most physically arduous or dirty. The outfit consists of, of course, a Frock Coat; single breasted if more informal, double breasted if more formal, with satin faced lapels sometimes with a woolen outer edging holding the button-holes or not if it is to be worn for mourning in which case the entire lapel is selvage of the coat's material.

There were even models which were to be worn for informal occasions which were in proliferation before the advent of the morning coat also known as the Swallow-Tail Cut-Away Coat. The informal versions of the frock coat can be seen in many early Victorian illustrations and were often in lighter tones of gray, or even green or blue or plaids, tartans, checks and etc., and often single breasted or even having notched lapels.

On every frock coat regardless of formality or age, there is a split up the back up to the waist seam set in a separate panel with two covered buttons at its upper corners where it meets the waist seam. On the above mentioned split of the tails/skirts, sometimes buttons are seen on the tail flaps to either side of the split on very antique models which are a carry-over from the time when pockets were still sewn into the tails as there were never exterior pockets. The coat has skirts which flare from the waist seam having no exterior pockets except rarely, a breast pocket for a scarf or some such though this was considered recherche and rather "faddy" there is a rare photographic example of this type of frock coat in a famous photograph of Oscar Wilde which I've entered a link to at the bottom of my reply. Pockets were and are still considered informal and out of place in formal wear. Many a finer example of frock coat which one might encounter might have a bit of silk cord or ribbon taping just behind the cuff buttons as can be seen in the photo and link below. Most frock coats despite having cuff buttons are barrel cuffed and the silk edging is a carry-over from the time when the coat was styled after the court coat (think Georgian gentleman's coat or Macaroni Men) which traditionally had turn-back cuffs.

All of the buttons are to be selvage either silk satin to match the lapels or, black clay wool (for mourning dress) and all black clay models of frock coat or, of course, whatever wool or even cotton or linen the suit might be made up from as the body of the coat is to be of this same fabric with which the buttons are covered, hence selvage.

Black clay wool which is the typical material from which the classical frock coat is crafted is highly dark, lustrous and rather plush with a dense feel and look to it and is almost velvety, similar in feel to a fine beaver hat.

The frock coat further-more is worn either with formal striped trousers which could be in a number of various subdued striped types usually incorporating gray, black and white and various types of subtle patterns of which the greater striped pattern was composed or, of something which is nearly unheard of now though very popular and commonplace in the past; the formal check! I am very fond of these formal check trousers which were likewise in the same melange of gray, black and white tones as formal striped trousers and usually in muted checks. These trousers preferably are to be worn without turn ups though this was not necessarily the case during the hey-day of the frock coat.

With a frock coat, a (usually high cut) waist-coat in either gray, white, or black either single or double breasted and sometimes in the more "faddy", decadent, outre' or tasteless individuals' wardrobes or, the wardrobes of Italians or Americans (two countries where such baroque aesthetic tastes persisted longer) brocaded and patterned or cut velvet examples. Regardless of the formality of the waistcoat or its breeding, it would also have had selvage buttons of the same material of which it was composed and usually lapels as well and at least six buttons up its front if single breasted and anywhere from six to twelve up the front if double breasted. One rule for the fit proportionate fit of waistcoat and frock coat; the waist coats upper edge must just show above the upper edge of the frock coat when buttoned.

A white shirt is ALWAYS worn, with a single cuff ONLY, a single cuff meant to be worn with cuff-links (which is not called in any way shape or form a French cuff as that is named after ironically enough, a British tailor who invented the slightly more informal cuff style and which ALWAYS folds back on itself). The shirt front may or may not be starched. A boiled shirt front is not inappropriate though it should not under any circumstances be marcela/pique which is really only for evening wear though, pleated is fine. There really ought to be a detachable collar to get the crisp look and feel necessary to do the impressive outfit justice. The collar should more appropriately be either some sort of wing collar whether it be pointed or curved in the so-called butterfly wing collar or, in the even more formal (and I must say my favourite) Imperial style of collar which stands up straight all the way around and is indeed the most formal of all collars available.

A cravat tied in any number of knots whether it be a simple once through or the ascot knot which is simply your basic square knot or, a bow-tie or even a long neck tie in any of its knotted incarnations. White however, whether Ascot (the most formal cravat knot) or, bow-tie (NOT marcela but silk of some sort) or even a neck-tie is the most formal as is the white vest.

As far as shoes are concerned, formal dress boots with contrasting tops with usually side buttoning which are only acquirable through custom shoe makers are considered appropriate though where you'll be able to acquire any within reason is beyond me. A pair of Balmoral boots however might be acquirable through Tricker's in Britain or Spain I think. Balmorals look exactly like modern cap-toes with a bit of brogueing at the edges and closed lacing usually but lace up to the ankle and only lost favor due to Oxford students opting instead for modern shoes e.g. the low topped gentlemen's shoes of today. Chelsea or Jodhpur boots are also an option though their silhouette must be up to the seriousness and formality of the out-fit. If modern gentlemen's shoes are to be worn, I must urge spats with them in either dove or pearl gray, white or black so that the unsightly vision of one's ankles is not pressed upon one's company and to match the outfit, of course...

As far as other details go, it was considered de rigeur to wear a patterned or brightly coloured linen or cotton or sometimes even silk pocket scarf tucked up one's left coat sleeve and just peeking out (of course, the coat would be so fitted as to make the chance of the scarf's loss negligible - it really does look rather dandy too! I usually do it while wearing my frock coat) Gloves, either gray leather or black are the usual types and of course a top hat and walking stick or rolled umbrella!

So, in conclusion and to break it down simply, a Frock Outfit includes

1. A Frock Coat

2. A formal vest with selvage buttons in an appropriate colour

3. Formal dress trousers, either striped or checked

4. Dress boots, Balmoral boots or formal closed laced shoes in black worn with spatterdashes

5. A proper single cuffed detachable collar shirt with appropriate collar and appropriate neckwear

6. Not to be forgotten! A topper either either pearl or dove gray or in black beaver fur or silk plush

7. Gloves, the outfit is horribly lacking without them.

8. A walking stick or rolled umbrella of an appropriate formality and length

Below are some of the images which I mentioned:

Note the rolled and rather delicate (by our modern standards) umbrella in the Prince's hand

Below is a link to a rather nice coloured photographic image of Oscar Wild showing his pocket scarf pocket on a frock coat
http://www.greatest-quotations.com/fotos\Wilde.jpg

 

[Tomasso]

Sorry to rant

One usually ends their diatribe with this. lol