Formal Wear Primer

[Matt Deckard]

Covering his bow tie with his shirt collar is even worse!

Bad costuming in some cases can't be helped... but it can be talked about. I did like the preview I saw.

 

[DominusTecum]

Going back to the topic of a few pages back, adding a splash of color to one's dinner jacket ensemble, I've always found that a pocket handkerchief does this wonderfully. A burgundy, or even (believe it or not) bright red silk specimen will add a dash of color, establish "uniqueness," and not break any of the rules. Personally, the thought of wearing a non-black bow tie to a "black tie" affair seems like the biggest faux pas that one could possibly make. I was at a wedding a weeks ago, and, nevermind that they were wearing tuxedos at 2:00 in the afternoon, when they should have been wearing morning dress, the wedding party looked rather badly dressed. They all had matching pale blue silk waistcoats and pale blue bow ties (pretied, of course.) I tried to smile and say "you look great" through clenched teeth when the nervous groom stepped out of a side room and asked me to help him fasten something. The previous day, I went with my friend, one of the groomsmen, to the rental place while he picked his clothes up --they did not have a single "real" tuxedo setup, just colored and patterned silk stuff. I was very surprised, though, because in the corner they *did* have a real (and well-put-together) full dress display.

 

[Feraud]

Going back to the topic of a few pages back, adding a splash of color to one's dinner jacket ensemble, I've always found that a pocket handkerchief does this wonderfully. A burgundy, or even (believe it or not) bright red silk specimen will add a dash of color, establish "uniqueness," and not break any of the rules. Personally, the thought of wearing a non-black bow tie to a "black tie" affair seems like the biggest faux pas that one could possibly make. I was at a wedding a weeks ago, and, nevermind that they were wearing tuxedos at 2:00 in the afternoon, when they should have been wearing morning dress, the wedding party looked rather badly dressed. They all had matching pale blue silk waistcoats and pale blue bow ties (pretied, of course.) I tried to smile and say "you look great" through clenched teeth when the nervous groom stepped out of a side room and asked me to help him fasten something. The previous day, I went with my friend, one of the groomsmen, to the rental place while he picked his clothes up --they did not have a single "real" tuxedo setup, just colored and patterned silk stuff. I was very surprised, though, because in the corner they *did* have a real (and well-put-together) full dress display.

I would not go too hard on them. Most people rarely do "dress up" and certainly not in the classic style.

 

[Josephine]

I went to see Not the Messiah (He's a Very Naughty Boy) at Wolf Trap last night. Eric Idle was in an almost Mother of Pearl colored notch collar jacket, with a black tie and cummerbund. The conductor was in a white notch collar and black tie (couldn't see the waist covering), the baritone was in a white shawl collar with a black tie and waistcoat O.O, and the tenor was in a cream shawl collar with black tie and cummerbund. The Husband rolled his eyes when I griped about the baritone's attire. lol

 

[Midnight Blue]

I would not go too hard on them. Most people rarely do "dress up" and certainly not in the classic style.

I WOULD go hard on them. These grooms are allowing themselves to be dressed like some sort of bridal accessory. Regardless of how little they know about men's fashion it should be quite evident to them that they are being treated by their bride as little more than a dress-up doll or matching handbag.

 

[Josephine]

I WOULD go hard on them. These grooms are allowing themselves to be dressed like some sort of bridal accessory. Regardless of how little they know about men's fashion it should be quite evident to them that they are being treated by their bride as little more than a dress-up doll or matching handbag.

Ouch! But so, so true....

 

[Feraud]

I WOULD go hard on them. These grooms are allowing themselves to be dressed like some sort of bridal accessory. Regardless of how little they know about men's fashion it should be quite evident to them that they are being treated by their bride as little more than a dress-up doll or matching handbag.

If a man is allowing himself to be a wedding day accessory than a participant, their wedding day outfit is the least of their problems.

 

[dhermann1]

I'll bet the dude thought he looked totally cool. Let's remember what a minority we are. I've been to a wedding where the groom was wearing a set of all white tails, with the most hideous godawful set of college kid beard and scraggly hair you ever saw. He looked like some kind of comedy magician. But he's a really great guy, his wife is a great gal, and they've remained very happily married for about 30 years now.
There are probably couples who were perfectly dressed who murdered each other within six months. Perspective!

 

[Alon]

I noticed the topic of pocket watches on formal wear was not covered. Is it appropriate to wear a pocket watch in one's waistcoat? (strung from pocket to pocket through a button hole)

 

[Josephine]

I noticed the topic of pocket watches on formal wear was not covered. Is it appropriate to wear a pocket watch in one's waistcoat? (strung from pocket to pocket through a button hole)

From our own member Midnight Blue's wonderful formal wear site:

Some consider it gauche to wear a timepiece to a formal occasion arguing that clock watching is contradictory to the celebratory nature of such events and insulting to the hostess. However, for those men who can't conceive of being without their watches for an entire evening it is essential to wear a thin dress model in order to allow the shirt cuff to fit properly. In addition, black leather or crocodile bands are considered dressier than metal bracelets due to their understated nature.

Alternately, a formal affair is a wonderful excuse to sport a classic pocket watch which will leave your wrists free of any encumbrances.

 

[Alon]

Thank you, Josephine! And what a wonderful resource. I'm going to purchase my first set of tails (professional requirement) this Fall and look forward to using all the tips from the Lounge.

 

[Josephine]

Thank you, Josephine! And what a wonderful resource. I'm going to purchase my first set of tails (professional requirement) this Fall and look forward to using all the tips from the Lounge.

You're welcome. And please post pictures once you have your tails, we'd love to see you in them.

 

[WildCelt]

Bowtie

My dinner jacket has grosgrain lapels, so I'm trying to get a new tie to go with it. New grosgrain ties are too expensive for the time being, so I was looking around OFAS and found one with an interesting basketweave pattern (black on black). Midnight Blue's excellent primer says the tie should have a ribbed or textured finish; do you think this would work? I'm concerned first that it might not be deeply textured enough to complement the lapels, but also that it might be too busy to maintain the classic lines of the tux.

 

[John in Covina]

Sometimes you have to put it on together to see if it goes.

 

[Bird's One View]

My dinner jacket has grosgrain lapels, so I'm trying to get a new tie to go with it. New grosgrain ties are too expensive for the time being, so I was looking around OFAS and found one with an interesting basketweave pattern (black on black). Midnight Blue's excellent primer says the tie should have a ribbed or textured finish; do you think this would work? I'm concerned first that it might not be deeply textured enough to complement the lapels, but also that it might be too busy to maintain the classic lines of the tux.

My dinner jacket has that material on the lapels. I have worn it with a grosgrain tie and thought it looked fine. On the other hand perhaps I should bid against you.

 

[Nighthawk]

Does anyone know how often white tie was worn at the Oscars? Below is Bob Hope wearing white tie, but was he an exception?

 

[Fletch]

No have linky, but Ask Andy has a long semi-sniffy thread about where it's ok to wear white tie now that it's rarely required. Consensus seems to be only at very small events like a dress-up evening among friends, or very large events like opera opening nights, where you're on your own socially.

The point was made that wearing white tie to any other formal event is ostentatious and likely to embarrass others rather than impress them.

 

[Tomasso]

Does anyone know how often white tie was worn at the Oscars? Below is Bob Hope wearing white tie, but was he an exception?

For many years the Master of Ceremonies and the male presenters wore Formal dress (white tie) while the attendees wore Semi-Formal dress (black tie). Bob Hope was the MC in that photo.

I imagine that the tails were ditched sometime in the late 60's, Summer of Love and all that rot.

Here are photos from the early and mid 60's with the presenters still wearing Formal dress:


Tony Fransciosa (1961)

Steve McQueen (1964)

Jason Robards (1965)

 

[Fletch]

Note that by 1965 the tradition has faded enough that Robards' waistcoat can go several inches below his coat front and no one much will notice. This is classically a poor fit, but is nearly universal when tails are worn today.

The Ask Andy thread mentioned that one year, Hope was an honorary Oscaree as well as MC, and that before his award came up he changed from tails to black tie. Imagine that today.

I do recall Russell Crowe wearing white tie to the Oscars several years ago. He didn't start any trends.

 

[Nighthawk]

Thanks guys!

NH