Fine Creek Leon

[stenaloom]

Aiming this as my next jacket (I own a few Schotts atm), but can't decide between the different versions.

I do like the look of the Custom more than the Nostar, but as I understand, the Custom is just Nostar with pieces cut off. So if I find a Nostar version I could just cut the pieces off myself?

The older versions seem to be 2mm thick and never ones 1.3mm. Which would you prefer? I don't own or ride a bike so I guess the less thick version would be more reasonable. There is something about thicker leather though that just seems better and longer lasting to me though.

 

[Tom71]

This jacket has been discussed before and not uncontroversally. You can search using maker and model.

Here’s my thoughts on the uncontroversial bits (if any).

Get the jacket that you like better visually. I wouldn’t cut off anything. You will just ruin resale value if it comes to that.

The jacket comes in two weights. 1,3mm is a decent thickness for a jacket. If the leather is very soft, it may still appear somewhat flimsy. Anything more than 1,6mm is pretty hefty, but will work well if the leather is reasonably soft (I say that because there is a lot of guesswork about the „real“ thickness of FCL‘s 2mm or whatever the leather is these days).

Pros/Cons on thickness
- better drape from the get go vs. „Moulding“ to your contours with time.
- armour like feeling vs. Notion of „flimsiness“.
- little break-in vs. a Jacket that will look spectacular if you invest time in it.

You may already know from your SCHOTT that you really can’t compare the numerous leathers they have (their naked cow is not better than the stiff HH used in some contemporary jackets, but it bears little resemblance). If you get the chance to try, that would be ideal. Second best if you find a retailer offering both versions, so you can discuss with them (videocall etc.).

 

[Monitor]

It isn't a good jacket. Avoid.

 

[stenaloom]

It isn't a good jacket. Avoid.

Why so?

 

[Monitor]

Why so?

It's just a mid-quality leather jacket with a deranged price tag. Mediocre leather, mediocre stitching & bad fit. Way below any regular Schott Perfecto, let alone something better. I saw, handled and tried on both versions & both sucked. 1.3 mm one was hanging next to Double Helix which was honestly an amazing piece of leather garment and made Fine Creek appear even worse, like Wilsons' & while the supposed 2 mm version was marginally nicer, it definitely wasn't nowhere near the advertised thickness.

If you can find one for $300-400, by all means, buy it. Anything more than that and you've been scammed.

Get Double Helix, The Flat Head or Real McCoy instead. Brilliant makers, both and I don't even like RMC.

 

[stenaloom]

Thanks for the advice. I will look into the brands you recommended. I did have my eye on the Flat Head Single Rider's, but just fell in love with the looks of Leon when I saw it. I do own a Schott 519 and 530 at the moment which are both really nice, but I would now like to get something that will develop over time. From the reviews about Leon I understood that the leather will develop a very nice patina and each jacket will look unique.

 

[cbez]

I haven't seen the Leon model in person but find my Eric to be nicer than schotts and on par with other Japanese brands. The leather is more thick and plush than super heavy and stiff tank.

Leather is pretty subjective some people will like certain hand feel, weight, grain types, color methods etc.

That said I'm a cheap ass and wouldn't pay retail price but same goes for every other jacket I have.

 

[cbez]

BTW every jacket develops over time. Fine creek just uses a top dye that will show wear faster than say a thick pigment finish. Personally I think when pigment finishes wear they look like cheap damaged paint.

And their jackets often start out quite grainy. Altho ppl talk about grain developing I haven't seen a very tight grained smooth jacket that turned super grainy.

 

[Canuck Panda]

There is a version without the epaulettes and belt but not cut off either. If you don’t want those detail, try to find that version. There’s also another version that only has the belt but no epaulettes. These customized models are only sold in Japan I think, so only up to 42, and these jackets fits very slim. If I find the model number for it again I’ll post here.

The best bet is to get the deerskin 5 year anniversary model. More and more of these are showing up on the used market. With the 20% buyee discount coupon like last week, it’s worth it. The deerskin is very special and will help with the smaller sizing of these jackets. And save the horsehide for say the J-24.

Thanks to TFL finds section I used the Mercari 20off coupon, first time for me, was always just 5-10 off before. Not Leon, but something very special. Finally crossing it off my list after so many twist and turns…. I don’t think I’ve gotten this excited that I’d lose sleep over it in a while. Haha. Thanks TFL.

 

[dudewuttheheck]

The Fine Creek jackets that aren't leather versions of fabric or denim jackets tend to just have really weird or arguably just straight up bad patterns. That's the main reason why they're a controversial brand on here. I'm not a fan.

 

[Aloysius]

And their jackets often start out quite grainy. Altho ppl talk about grain developing I haven't seen a very tight grained smooth jacket that turned super grainy.

I've experienced this with CXL, Shinki, and Schott's Italian horsehide.

@stenaloom , personally I think there's little point considering the Leon when the 613SJH exists.

It's a Japan market Schott model that, like the Leon, aims to reproduce vintage Perfectos, and is made using the same Shinki hides, in a black and brown option. However, it has a much better pattern than the Leon or for that matter Schott Japan's earlier attempts at the design. Please note that when I say this, I'm referring to current production, not to earlier models which had a weird pattern.

The current 613SJH has the same pattern as the 613SH (albeit one size smaller than the American equivalent) that Tom, myself, and a few others are very happy wearers of.

A similar vintage-styled jacket on the same pattern is the Schott Japan 110th anniversary jacket, which I own the prototype of. It's cowhide rather than horsehide, but it has a thin top coat for those who like fast ageing. (Personally, I would advise a bit of caution with it.)

They also make a version of this jacket with an (imo) nicer but dyed through horsehide and cowhide, the 613UST and 613UHT.

However, if you're not specifically after the pocket zippers going up vs going down (a feature I emphasized a lot because my vintage ones do it, but then in real life I stopped caring), for my money the best jacket of the Perfecto type is the 613SH, which is a US market Schott. It has my favorite jacket horsehide. Not 'tea core' but the leather has continued to develop over time.

Alternatively, if the S/M/L sizing fits you (unfortunately, some of us get caught in between), the new teacore Perfecto with Conmar zips would seem to fit the bill. The length measurements do look a bit weird on paper but when I've seen people wearing it, it doesn't look that long, so it's likely down to some specific factory measurement that includes the dip point and collar.

 

[cbez]

would be interested in a before/after of an originally smooth jacket that developed significant grain, besides elbow creases.

 

[Marc mndt]

would be interested in a before/after of an originally smooth jacket that developed significant grain, besides elbow creases.

Schott 613 SJH, three months progression.

 

[cbez]

@stenaloom , personally I think there's little point considering the Leon when the 613SJH exists.


It's a Japan market Schott model that, like the Leon, aims to reproduce vintage Perfectos, and is made using the same Shinki hides, in a black and brown option. However, it has a much better pattern than the Leon or for that matter Schott Japan's earlier attempts at the design. Please note that when I say this, I'm referring to current production, not to earlier models which had a weird pattern.

The current 613SJH has the same pattern as the 613SH (albeit one size smaller than the American equivalent) that Tom, myself, and a few others are very happy wearers of.

A similar vintage-styled jacket on the same pattern is the Schott Japan 110th anniversary jacket, which I own the prototype of. It's cowhide rather than horsehide, but it has a thin top coat for those who like fast ageing. (Personally, I would advise a bit of caution with it.)

They also make a version of this jacket with an (imo) nicer but dyed through horsehide and cowhide, the 613UST and 613UHT.

However, if you're not specifically after the pocket zippers going up vs going down (a feature I emphasized a lot because my vintage ones do it, but then in real life I stopped caring), for my money the best jacket of the Perfecto type is the 613SH, which is a US market Schott. It has my favorite jacket horsehide. Not 'tea core' but the leather has continued to develop over time.

Alternatively, if the S/M/L sizing fits you (unfortunately, some of us get caught in between), the new teacore Perfecto with Conmar zips would seem to fit the bill. The length measurements do look a bit weird on paper but when I've seen people wearing it, it doesn't look that long, so it's likely down to some specific factory measurement that includes the dip point and collar.

I do keep an eye on schotts and their horsehides can look good. I've noticed a concerning pattern of damage on their used jackets tho, zippers busting, seams splitting, totally frayed wrist linings that are only a few years old etc.

the 613sjh for example is heavily pigment coated without much depth. I personally find the fine creek leathers a lot more interesting. not all shinki is necessarily amazing. but i am probably the odd one out here, even a lot of nice japanese horsehide that people seem to love is just a boring monotone pigment coat to me.


also, to me, this pattern just looks terrible.

 

[cbez]

Schott 613 SJH, three months progression.

View attachment 582573 View attachment 582571

that's cool. is the first one new? it started fairly grainy. it actually reminds me a lot of my iron heart black HH. like the grain starts to come out thru the pigment which went on fairly flat.

 

[cbez]

obviously subjective but to me this kind of aging just looks like sheet.

 

[Aloysius]

I do keep an eye on schotts and their horsehides can look good. I've noticed a concerning pattern of damage on their used jackets tho, zippers busting, seams splitting, totally frayed wrist linings that are only a few years old etc.

the 613sjh for example is heavily pigment coated without much depth. I personally find the fine creek leathers a lot more interesting. not all shinki is necessarily amazing. but i am probably the odd one out here, even a lot of nice japanese horsehide that people seem to love is just a boring monotone pigment coat to me.

View attachment 582574
also, to me, this pattern just looks terrible.

The new photos with the white hipster guy are terribly sized. I don’t know why they’ve plastered him over US Online Store’s site.

 

[Marc mndt]

the 613sjh for example is heavily pigment coated without much depth. I personally find the fine creek leathers a lot more interesting.

Have you handled either in the flesh?

that's cool. is the first one new?

Yes. I bought the jacket new from Schott Tokyo.

Brand new

They had an example of a well worn one in black.

obviously subjective but to me this kind of aging just looks like sheet.

Different types of leather age differently. A lot of people love how the worn off topcoat looks on vintage steerhide Buco's.

 

[cbez]

Yes. I find monotone, thick pigment finishes pretty boring. Even on stuff like say freewheelers that everyone loves.

The vintage bucos feel to me like a tougher top coat that has slowly worn away over decades but is clinging to the leather. not my favorite, but it has its appeal. the newer formulas to me have more of a thick paint vibe that just comes off in unappealing chunks. (See 613sjh zipper area pic)

 

[cbez]

Four speed that imo has a more aesthetically wearing pigment formula.