Fine Creek Leather Eric 1,8mm

[Aloysius]

I should add that feeling like Schott horsehide isn't an insult in my book. I just realized it might sound that way given the forum's occasional attitude about Schott.

 

[Tom71]

I guess I'm "the usual suspects" now but I did handle the FCL jackets because I went to one of the stores that's their big pusher in the US (this is before I was exposed to any TFL discourse about them, so no I don't think you can say "makers they don't intend to buy from". They seemed excited about it, so I was open to it, but I found the Schott, (JP made) Iron Heart (JP made), and Flat Head stuff much more appealing as designs and as the leather itself.

I did end up buying things at that store but from Sugar Cane.

I'm not a thick leather fetishist anyway, so it's not like I was after 2mm. But the feel was certainly that of a (firmer end of) midweight leather; there was also a Schott 618HH there, and you could say the feel was comparable.

All good, @Aloysius. Yes, the remark about accusing makers of "lying" was directed towards you, but the rest wasn´t meant at somebody specifically, but rather at a conduct that I view as an unnecessarily confrontative pattern when a member (often a new one) asks an innocent question about a certain maker.

@Taras was asking where he could get an FCL "Eric", and the only member who even tried to assist was @Marc mndt.
I´ve seen similar when somebody asks about Simmons Bilt (wrong question because somebody who´s no longer there stole patterns around the time America was discovered), Addict (their mere existence west of Japan is evidence of their evilness), Himel (Don´t ask, period!), or others who have recently inspired the wrath of TFL elders.

Guys, let´s stay open towards new developments (not everything a 40+ Boomer dislikes about the future is actually bad, and even if it was, WE are not going to stop it) and by all means, let´s be (more) respectful towards dissenting opinions, judgements, tastes.

 

[Will Zach]

Here are some pics of "1.8 mm Richmond". I never handled one, but from the folds, the leather looks really thick. But 4.5-oz (1.8 mm), man, I have my doubts. The only way to resolve the controversy is to buy this jacket and put a thickness gauge to it, lol. @Canuck Panda ?

http://[URL]https://ast.truinkelephant.top/index.php?main_page=product_info&products_id=8157

[/URL]

Googling mindlessly. Don't know if this Eric is 1.8 mm thick, but is pretty thick and looks great:

https://californiaharvest.jp/2018/03/10/fine-creek-leathers【eric-エリック】11月～１２月入荷予定！予約受/

 

[jeo]

@Taras i don’t think you can buy the older 1.8-2 mm jackets new anymore, but I may be wrong. Maybe some places still have them in stock. I wouldn’t know. I think your best bet is to try and find a good condition used one.

As for the thickness of those jackets, I’ve handled those older FCLs that were advertised as 2 mm from multiple different stores on multiple different occasions through multiple runs. They’re thick. If they’re exactly 2 mm or 1.8 mm, who knows. Don’t know how anyone can declare that they’re not. (unless like @Tom71 said, they’re walking around with a caliper which would be hilarious.)

The thing with those leathers though is that they’re very soft and pliable so they may not feel that thick when wearing them, but they are.

The older “lightweight” versions were advertised as 1.1 - 1.3 mm. Seemed correct.

Also, not all the older models came in the 2 mm leather. Leon the No star was the thicker leather while the Leon custom did not come in that thicker leather for instance.

These newer ones that are Shinki and 1.3 - 1.5 mm are a much stiffer leather.

 

[Taras]

@Taras i don’t think you can buy the older 1.8-2 mm jackets new anymore, but I may be wrong. Maybe some places still have them in stock. I wouldn’t know. I think your best bet is to try and find a good condition used one.

As for the thickness of those jackets, I’ve handled those older FCLs that were advertised as 2 mm from multiple different stores on multiple different occasions through multiple runs. They’re thick. If they’re exactly 2 mm or 1.8 mm, who knows. Don’t know how anyone can declare that they’re not. (unless like @Tom71 said, they’re walking around with a caliper which would be hilarious.)

The thing with those leathers though is that they’re very soft and pliable so they may not feel that thick when wearing them, but they are.

The older “lightweight” versions were advertised as 1.1 - 1.3 mm. Seemed correct.

Also, not all the older models came in the 2 mm leather. Leon the No star was the thicker leather while the Leon custom did not come in that thicker leather for instance.

These newer ones that are Shinki and 1.3 - 1.5 mm are a much stiffer leather.

Thank you very much, Jeo) that’s the answer I was trying to find when I asked my question …

 

[Aloysius]

For buying one of the older models, you’re best off searching through a Japanese proxy.

 

[red devil]

I handled a few of these "1.8mm" jackets back when they where released, they where not 1.8mm thick.
It was a marketing thing, not an accurate measurement...

Late to the party again... But I can also confirm that all the advertised 2mm thick FCL jackets were nowhere near that number. I handled some in Rivet and Hide in London and others in Tokyo.

How do I know that? They were simply as stated by others medium weight, not heavy weight. At 1.8mm or 2 mm thick, you are approaching the maximum thickness of horse hide with the exception of the shell. So a jacket made with such an average thickness - it is a natural product after all and it varies within the hide - would be much heavier than whatever I handled from FCL.

So yes, the 2mm claim was a marketing gimmick which was very easy to figure out from anybody having handled heavy weight horse such as what LW makes – they are the only makers we know of that use the whole horse hide, meaning they use shells in parts of the jackets as well - These 2mm FCL jackets were thinner than a good number of my jackets.

@Taras , that being said you need to ask yourself if you really need a heavy horse jacket or you are happy with a medium weight. Medium jackets are by no means inferior, I find that I prefer some patterns in heavier leathers and others in lighter ones. And to go further in this line of reasoning, you need to ak yourself if you really want horse leather or not.

@Taras was asking where he could get an FCL "Eric", and the only member who even tried to assist was @Marc mndt.
I´ve seen similar when somebody asks about Simmons Bilt (wrong question because somebody who´s no longer there stole patterns around the time America was discovered), Addict (their mere existence west of Japan is evidence of their evilness), Himel (Don´t ask, period!), or others who have recently inspired the wrath of TFL elders.

Guys, let´s stay open towards new developments (not everything a 40+ Boomer dislikes about the future is actually bad, and even if it was, WE are not going to stop it) and by all means, let´s be (more) respectful towards dissenting opinions, judgements, tastes.

Although some members dislike Simmons Bilt, others such as myself appreaciate them. We are very far from when nobody dared even mention them like it was a few years ago. I would say we improved massively since then.

Again, some members showed a dislike for addict and others like them, I do not think it is as one sided as you mention.

Himel used to be put on a pedestal until people started seeing beyond the hype. You should remember the QC issues among other things. No point in going further on this, but let's just say that people corrected the misconceptions they had about this brand. I think it is healthy.

If anything, the forum had become much more open minded and is exploring new genres. Look at the unique Electric Leather Studio jackets getting positive comments as an example. You really do not remember the days where the only good jackets were Aero and the only worthy leather was CXL?

 

[Tom71]

Although some members dislike Simmons Bilt, others such as myself appreaciate them. We are very far from when nobody dared even mention them like it was a few years ago. I would say we improved massively since then.

Again, some members showed a dislike for addict and others like them, I do not think it is as one sided as you mention.

Himel used to be put on a pedestal until people started seeing beyond the hype. You should remember the QC issues among other things. No point in going further on this, but let's just say that people corrected the misconceptions they had about this brand. I think it is healthy.

If anything, the forum had become much more open minded and is exploring new genres. Look at the unique Electric Leather Studio jackets getting positive comments as an example. You really do not remember the days where the only good jackets were Aero and the only worthy leather was CXL?

I appreciate you chiming in. I am glad that my take on some threads detiriorating for all the wrong reasons does not seem to resonate with you (and perhaps others).

I was just stating my impression for some months (?) and thought this thread would serve as an example.
I guess once your alerted to something, you tend to see it everywhere.

 

[Canuck Panda]

Personally I would not get too hung up on the exact number of thickness. Horsehide is a natural material, has lots of variations between batches. When these brands advertise the thickness its simply a way of explaining their product for that specific year/season run.
The thing with the FCL brand is that they use a variety of different horsehides. That's their thing. Like 6 to 9 different horsehides in one introduction. Their japanese youtube videos like this one will explain this.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_lrNTDTxY88hey're
However, it's really hard to tell the difference without actual hand feel.
They are also known to tweak vintage patterns like smashing 40's back design with 70s front design. Although the newer releases they're going back to the basic repros again, so more conservative.
Generally speaking, the drapier the leather, the better the fit. Thickness has some play into this but not as much. There are some thin horsehides that are just too stiff and do not drape while there are some heavier ones that drapes really well. And vice versa. I find that if the aging photos shows a lot of rolls, it usually means it's less drapey, so it would need to roll to fit. If the aged photos are just grainy but still some what flat then there is a chance it might be very drapey. Again these are not real science. The rolls could also be there when the oil/wax content is high. So it's really hard to tell. Nothing beats seeing it and feeling it in person. This is the double edge sword.

 

[red devil]

I appreciate you chiming in. I am glad that my take on some threads detiriorating for all the wrong reasons does not seem to resonate with you (and perhaps others).

I was just stating my impression for some months (?) and thought this thread would serve as an example.
I guess once your alerted to something, you tend to see it everywhere.

Typical human nature, once you focus on something, as you say, you see it everywhere. Happens to all of us I think, I can certainly vouch it happened to me as well. Luckily friends pointed it out to me when it did

 

[red devil]

Generally speaking, the drapier the leather, the better the fit

How did you come up with this?!

 

[Canuck Panda]

How did you come up with this?!

Personal experience. YMMV
https://www.thefedoralounge.com/thr...an-answer-about-outerwear.102916/post-2993415

 

[red devil]

Personal experience. YMMV
https://www.thefedoralounge.com/thr...an-answer-about-outerwear.102916/post-2993415

They are different jackets with different patterns

 

[red devil]

If you want to make such a comparison, you need the same pattern, I am not sure they have exactly the same dimention. but here is the same jacket model in different hides:

This is a better comparison, the second jacket drapes more becuase it is deer skin, but is it a better fit?

 

[dudewuttheheck]

I wouldn't go for Fine Creek even if their descriptions were accurate. If you want thicker leather, go for Lost Worlds or Vanson. If you just want good quality leather, you have tons of options from brands who make better fitting jackets than Fine Creek

 

[Tom71]

I wouldn't go for Fine Creek even if their descriptions were accurate. If you want thicker leather, go for Lost Worlds or Vanson. If you just want good quality leather, you have tons of options from brands who make better fitting jackets than Fine Creek

But that’s the thing, isn’t it: YOU wouldn’t go for FCL; I wouldn’t go for them, and probably for very different reasons.
And yet, the OP asked for FCL. He didn’t ask, wether or not that’s an appropriate choice.

What’s the problem in accepting this departure point (or staying away from this thread altogether)? It really gets to me that it seems impossible to accept that certain people may actually LIKE (insert any given maker).

I started my contribution to this thread when the OP, asking for the „Eric“ in the 1,8mm variant was first told that the jacket is actually thinner and secondly that he should look, at Lost Worlds to begin with. I really find this inappropriate as I take it to mean that some people think it’s not good enough to like FCL.
But as I said earlier: this is just my opinion, and I don’t expect others to share it. Notably, the OP hasn’t been seen around for two page now.

 

[Marc mndt]

you have tons of options from brands who make better fitting jackets than Fine Creek

I think their type I is a good looking / fitting jacket.

 

[Canuck Panda]

Notably, the OP hasn’t been seen around for two page now.

He might have found what he was looking for and kudos to him. There were some used FCL BNWT jackets up for sale in Japan just these past couple of weeks. A bit pricey for used jackets imo but they seem to be in demand there now.

 

[dudewuttheheck]

But that’s the thing, isn’t it: YOU wouldn’t go for FCL; I wouldn’t go for them, and probably for very different reasons.
And yet, the OP asked for FCL. He didn’t ask, wether or not that’s an appropriate choice.

What’s the problem in accepting this departure point (or staying away from this thread altogether)? It really gets to me that it seems impossible to accept that certain people may actually LIKE (insert any given maker).

I started my contribution to this thread when the OP, asking for the „Eric“ in the 1,8mm variant was first told that the jacket is actually thinner and secondly that he should look, at Lost Worlds to begin with. I really find this inappropriate as I take it to mean that some people think it’s not good enough to like FCL.
But as I said earlier: this is just my opinion, and I don’t expect others to share it. Notably, the OP hasn’t been seen around for two page now.

I accept that people like Fine Creek even if I don't. That's not going to stop me from giving advice that I believe is helpful. The OP does not have to listen to my advice if he doesn't want to. I'm not insulting him. I'm saying there are other options if he's looking for thicker leather. I've had people give me similar advice and it was very helpful.

Plus, as others noted, the jackets werent even as advertised. So it is then helpful to offer alternatives.

Yes, I don't like Fine Creek, but if you're going to call me out for unsolicited comments about a brand I don't like, there are others far more guilty than me on here that should be called out.

I get your point though. I can see how my post could be interpreted as pointlessly rude.

View attachment 506330

Their denim style jackets do fit better, but those are from the days before they were fine creek.

 

[Aloysius]

I started my contribution to this thread when the OP, asking for the „Eric“ in the 1,8mm variant was first told that the jacket is actually thinner and secondly that he should look, at Lost Worlds to begin with.

Just want to note that there was a specific reason I brought up the leather weight issue:

OP already owns the jacket in the current hide and wanted a heavyweight version. So at that point it wasn’t FCL vs not FCL.

He wanted to upgrade his existing jacket from 1.3mm to 1.8mm, which is why I warned that the 2mm and 1.8mm marked jackets seemed to also be about 1.3mm. After all it would be pretty disappointing if he sold his jacket at a loss, bought a 1.8mm labeled one at a markup, then found that it was the same leather as the one he sold.

I mentioned LW because if he really wants a thicker version of that jacket type, they (or as AVS mentioned, Vanson) might have what he’s after. For that matter, Aero as well if they have that extra heavy CXL SH sitting around.

Does this make more sense?

In any case, he liked my comment about finding one through a Japanese proxy so it’s entirely possible that he did just that. Hopefully it’s what he’s looking for.