Fedora is a Trilby?

[The Elizans]

Fedora or Trilby dilema: solution = Snap-Brim!

Hi folks,

I dislike Fedora and Trilby as terminology; with the vast style differences and subtle nuances between all hats, I think its time to "Call a spade a spade!" In all my posts (I know there aren't that many yet!) I prefer the terminology snap brim. This was the most common name for non-stiff, non-homburg hats in the 1930's and was used by most manufacurers in their sales literature; the Fedora and Trilby may romanticise these great hats, but in their day, they were simply 'soft felt hats'. T.E.

Dunn & Co pamphlet c.1930

 

[nickn5]

I love that pamphlet, I can just hear the lines from Singin' in the Rain:
'You'd never guess what loud applause... This cunning hat receives'

I'm highly intrigued by the concept of a negligee soft hat too - I wonder if it was meant in it's original French translation meaning of 'neglected, forgotten'.

But yes now you mention it, soft felt hat was the most common 'name' for fedoras and trilbies in older advertising, it seems. I suppose the different names came about simply because of where the design became popular and why it did, i.e the famous early 20th Century play in London which allegedly inspired the hat:

All London went mad about the play. The name Trilby was on everybody's lips. Toulouse Lautrec named his yacht Trilby. The shops were full of Trilby gifts and trinkets, and of course the song writers and composers had to get on the bandwagon.
One enterprising men's hatter started to produce, for his customers, replicas of Trilby's headgear. Thus was born the trilby hat.

Apparently the play was adapted from a book by an American chap in the 1890s, perhaps he got the idea of a male wearing a 'trilby' style hat as we know it from the women of that time, who were then the ones wearing 'fedoras'.

N.

 

[metropd]

Going to an authoritative (English) source, here are the definitions from the Compact Oxford English Dictionary:

trilby
• noun (pl. trilbies) chiefly Brit. a soft felt hat with a narrow brim and indented crown.
— ORIGIN from the heroine of George du Maurier’s novel Trilby (1894), in the stage version of which such a hat was worn.​

fedora /fidor/
• noun a soft felt hat with a curled brim and the crown creased lengthways.
— ORIGIN from Fédora (1882), a drama written by the French dramatist Victorien Sardou.
​

So according to the OED, it's mostly about brim width, and trilby is chiefly a Britishism. Their definition of a fedora sounds suspiciously like a Homburg to me:

homburg /homburg/
• noun a man’s felt hat having a narrow curled brim and a lengthwise indentation in the crown.
— ORIGIN named after the German town of Homburg, where such hats were first worn.​

Their def. of homburg sounds like a cross between a trilby and a fedora. Oh well, in this case I think the FL is probably the arbiter of what these terms mean. But, we can all reach a consensus, right? Yeah, right...

Anyway, just when I'm all set to order a couple of Akubra Stylemasters, Xigxag has to post pictures of the Christy's Marlborough, a hat I've seen and liked but had forgotten all about. Very close in size and shape, it appears - nice pictures, by the way, and now what am I supposed to do? They even come in the colors I want, tan and navy --- decisions, decisions....

Before there was the actual fedora the homburg was called a fedora at the turn of the century. Then the fedora became the snap brim and so the distinction between the fedora(snap brim) and the homburg became more evident.

 

[xigxag]

to help your decision

Anyway, just when I'm all set to order a couple of Akubra Stylemasters, Xigxag has to post pictures of the Christy's Marlborough, a hat I've seen and liked but had forgotten all about. Very close in size and shape, it appears - nice pictures, by the way, and now what am I supposed to do? They even come in the colors I want, tan and navy --- decisions, decisions....

Here is a comparison between an Akubra Stylemaster in mid-grey (left) and a Christy's Marlborough in light grey (right).
Both are very nice and comfotable hats. The Christy's felt is softer to the touch.

My advice : buy both

 

[gtdean48]

My advice : buy both

Very wise advice! I like how you think...:eusa_clap :eusa_clap

 

[carldelo]

Great minds think alike

My advice : buy both

Very wise advice! I like how you think...:eusa_clap :eusa_clap

xigxag - thanks for posting those comparison pics, they fully answered some nagging questions I had on relative proportions. Not to mention that excellent colored liner on the Stylemaster - I prefer it to the red in a big way. I think the two are close enough to both look good on me, and different enough to have one of each.

So your pics put me over the top - I just ordered a Stylemaster in acorn fawn (along with a Capricorn poly straw in gray) from EA and a Marlborough in navy from Hornetshats. From what Benny Holiday said on the Stylemaster thread, the Akubra navy is nearly black - I got an email reply from Hornets that their navy is 'distinctly blue' which is what I'm looking for. Anyway, thanks again for the input and I look forward to my own Stylemaster/Marlborough side-by-side session. Have to wait 3 months for the Akubras, though - a major downside of being size 62.

 

[Goose.]

xigxag...

Wow.
Thanks for the pics.
I have thought about the Stylemaster for some time but wasn't sold on the bound edge. After your pics, I have changed my mind.
On my Bucket List...but want to read some more. Looks like the taper may present a problem for my forehead.

Thanks again!

 

[The Elizans]

Snap-Brim is the answer my friends!

Forgot to include this in my last post on this subject, A page from an Esquire magazine from 1936 (thats all I wrote down, sorry!) Again, it clearly refers to our fedoras/trilbies as "Snap-Brims". I think this was almost certainly one of the most common names for these hats back in the day.

T.E.

 

[Warden]

You know I have wondered about this for a long while, but was to shy to ask the question.

You learn something everyday

Harry

 

[Stan]

Hi,

It all has become a confused mess over time, hasn't it?

The term 'snap brim' actually means that the wearer can snap it up or down at will, and anywhere along the brim - not just in the front. Most folks wear their hats snapped up in the rear and down in the front, although it used to be pretty common for the ladies to wear a fedora with the brim snapped up on one side and down on the other.

The snap brim is differentiated from upturned and downturned brims which are formed such that they don't want to be changed. I think those old ads were just touting the fact that they had hats with snap brims as opposed to the term being a style name.

The Trilby has what I refer to as a 'stingy crown' as well as a 'stingy brim'. The crown is so low that it can only take a slight indentation on top, as opposed to a more well-known crease. I have both 'stingy brim' Fedoras as well as Trilbys and it's very obvious which is which when one has them sitting side be each.

later!

Stan

 

[Daoud]

Hi,

It all has become a confused mess over time, hasn't it?

The term 'snap brim' actually means that the wearer can snap it up or down at will, and anywhere along the brim - not just in the front. Most folks wear their hats snapped up in the rear and down in the front, although it used to be pretty common for the ladies to wear a fedora with the brim snapped up on one side and down on the other.

The snap brim is differentiated from upturned and downturned brims which are formed such that they don't want to be changed. I think those old ads were just touting the fact that they had hats with snap brims as opposed to the term being a style name.

The Trilby has what I refer to as a 'stingy crown' as well as a 'stingy brim'. The crown is so low that it can only take a slight indentation on top, as opposed to a more well-known crease. I have both 'stingy brim' Fedoras as well as Trilbys and it's very obvious which is which when one has them sitting side be each.

later!

Stan

Exactly right on the crown height- hats I've seen specifically called "trilbies" have always had a single shallow crease only.

 

[mayserwegener]

homburg /homburg/
• noun a man’s felt hat having a narrow curled brim and a lengthwise indentation in the crown.
— ORIGIN named after the German town of Homburg, where such hats were first worn.​

The name is of the town is Bad Homburg.

 

[carldelo]

Hmmm

The name is of the town is Bad Homburg.

I rechecked the OED, and the source is cited as Homburg, Germany. This is not to say the dictionary is without error, but that's what they say. Anyway, I checked my big atlas, where I found: the very small town of Homburg 15 miles west of Wurzburg; a medium-size city called Homburg about 50 miles west of Mannheim, near the French border; and Bad Homburg, a medium-size city 12 miles north-northwest of Frankfurt. I assume it's a spa town, because of the Bad prefix.

Of the dictionaries that mention etymology, about half mention Bad Homburg, half mention just Homburg. But the story that recurs is of Edward VII popularizing the hat by bringing one home from a visit to Bad Homburg in 1894, which sounds pretty convincing - good catch.

 

[Tomasso]

Mr. Lamb from Locke & Co. explains the difference (at 3:30) between a fedora and a trilby.

 

[Baron Kurtz]

His jacket arms are certainly "riding up with wear".

bk

 

[H.Johnson]

Flits around London like a taxi driver 'on the make' with tourists in the back...

 

[Mario]

From a seller on the UK ebay who wants to sell me a Trilby because Justin Timberlake and Britney Spears wear one as well:

Trilbies are characterised by the wide brim, pinch at the front and dimple in the top of the crown.

Well...

 

[Chuck Bobuck]

I thought if I could imagine the late, great, British, actor Terry Thomas wearing it then it's a trilby. To prove this, I looked online for a photo and only found fedoras or bowlers, no trilby. I thought he wore a trilby in "It's a Mad, Mad, Mad.....World, but my memory, once again, has proven faulty.

 

[Edward]

I've had a couple of Brits tell me that a Trilby is supposed to refer to a hat with a 2" brim or smaller (a stingy), but modern usage has blurred the line to include any fedora-like hat.

The impression I've long had is actually to the contrary. As the Baron posted, I believe that histroically they referred largely to the same basic hat family, but modern usage has evolved to denote two subtly different styles.

To me, they're all fedoras.... lol