Jovan
Suspended
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- 4,095
- Location
- Gainesville, Florida
I suppose mine isn't Fair Isle enough...
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Fair Isle sweaters
- Thread starter GateXC
- Start date
dhermann1
I'll Lock Up
- Messages
- 9,154
- Location
- Da Bronx, NY, USA
I am! Passionately, fanatically, deeply! And my GF thinks it's one of the most beautiful things I've ever gotten myself.Alan Eardley said:
Jovan: Your sweater is BEAUTIFUL! Wear it in good health!
BellyTank
I'll Lock Up
- Messages
- 7,061
Jovan said:
It does appear to be a sweater.
B
T
Alan Eardley
One Too Many
- Messages
- 1,500
- Location
- Midlands, UK
Traditional knitting in this style is done on all the Shetland Isles and according to some sources was once recognised as such. In other words, we would have talked about 'a Shetland pullover' rather than a 'Fair Isle' pullover. Someone who probably knew about such things once told me that the 'elite status' of Fair Isle knitters came about through the entrepreneurial attitude of one group of knitters on that island and was reinforced by subsequent royal patronage. Certainly they do not have a monopoly on skill.
The pattern style is similar to Scandinavian knitwear because the people who settled on Shetland were of Scandinavian origin. They are very different to the Pict-descended 'Scots' on the Sutherland mainland. Shetland is roughly as far from Norway as it is from Scotland. Next week marks the annual Up Helly Aa Viking fire festival. For people who enjoy traditional 'rave ups' this is a must. See www.Visitshetland.com for transport details - but flights and accommodation will probably be booked up now.
Alan
The pattern style is similar to Scandinavian knitwear because the people who settled on Shetland were of Scandinavian origin. They are very different to the Pict-descended 'Scots' on the Sutherland mainland. Shetland is roughly as far from Norway as it is from Scotland. Next week marks the annual Up Helly Aa Viking fire festival. For people who enjoy traditional 'rave ups' this is a must. See www.Visitshetland.com for transport details - but flights and accommodation will probably be booked up now.
Alan
dhermann1 said:
Woland
One of the Regulars
- Messages
- 223
- Location
- Oslo, Norway
I agree with Mr. Eardley.
There is a long history of interaction between Shetland and Scandinavia.
During WWII Shetland was the base of The Shetland Bus, which went back and forth between Norway and the UK.
When I was a mere lad my father taught me to knit.
Knitting was historically done by both sexes, although the main bulk was done by women.
My Mother knitted everyday stuff like mittens and socks, my Father most of the sweaters.
Traditionally, due to the lack of daylight, and the fact that the combination of farming & fishing is kinda slow during winter, handicrafts used to be a family entertainment.
Not anymore...
There is a long history of interaction between Shetland and Scandinavia.
During WWII Shetland was the base of The Shetland Bus, which went back and forth between Norway and the UK.
When I was a mere lad my father taught me to knit.
Knitting was historically done by both sexes, although the main bulk was done by women.
My Mother knitted everyday stuff like mittens and socks, my Father most of the sweaters.
Traditionally, due to the lack of daylight, and the fact that the combination of farming & fishing is kinda slow during winter, handicrafts used to be a family entertainment.
Not anymore...
Alan Eardley
One Too Many
- Messages
- 1,500
- Location
- Midlands, UK
And Norwegian home shoe making is worth a thread all of its own.
'Weejun' loafers indeed!
Alan
'Weejun' loafers indeed!
Alan
Speedster
Practically Family
- Messages
- 876
- Location
- 60 km west of København
Alan Eardley said:
fftopic: There is a little on the subject in this thread:http://www.thefedoralounge.com/showthread.php?t=23988
But it seems that the shoes from Aurland Skofabrikk is not available anywhere on the net...
Alan Eardley
One Too Many
- Messages
- 1,500
- Location
- Midlands, UK
Yes, I'd forgotten that. Thanks.
Alan
Alan
Woland
One of the Regulars
- Messages
- 223
- Location
- Oslo, Norway
Impressing!
And strange coincidence; I discussed these shoes with a friend yesterday.
I will call the factory outlet tomorrow and ask about prices and shipping.
And strange coincidence; I discussed these shoes with a friend yesterday.
I will call the factory outlet tomorrow and ask about prices and shipping.
- Messages
- 14,389
- Location
- Small Town Ohio, USA
Polo Ralph Lauren, post Christmas sales.
Speedster
Practically Family
- Messages
- 876
- Location
- 60 km west of København
Woland said:
Takk. Would be very nice to know. Also if there are anywhere on the web where you can buy them. Many years ago you could buy them several places in Copenhagen.
Seeing as the subject of scandinavian knitwear has come up, I thought some might be interested in seeing this...
This is my "Mariusgenser" which was made for me by my fianc?©e's granny. It's one of the most Norwegian of patterns named after Marius Eriksen who was a champion ski jumper, Spitfire ace and film star.
She's also made me two pairs of very thick "oversocks" and a pair of Selbuvotter (traditional mittens) - these aren't mine but very similar...
And they are all very warm.
This is my "Mariusgenser" which was made for me by my fianc?©e's granny. It's one of the most Norwegian of patterns named after Marius Eriksen who was a champion ski jumper, Spitfire ace and film star.
She's also made me two pairs of very thick "oversocks" and a pair of Selbuvotter (traditional mittens) - these aren't mine but very similar...
And they are all very warm.
Nice shirt
I like the shirt, too. It looks period with the long, drapy collar. Where'd you get it?
Kostya
herringbonekid said:here's a long sleeved one i had made for me....
'inspired' by Charlie Bucket's jumper in the Tim Burton 'Willy Wonka' film.
not that i'm a fan of the film, just the jumper.
I like the shirt, too. It looks period with the long, drapy collar. Where'd you get it?
Kostya
Woland
One of the Regulars
- Messages
- 223
- Location
- Oslo, Norway
Speedster said:
Updated the "Weejun thread" with information.
They can be ordered at a nice price and shipped internationally.
Mr. Rover
One Too Many
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- The Center of the Universe
My Fairisle in the Sartorialist/GQ....I didn't particularly like this outfit- I wore it that way with a gray thick rope stripe suit that complemented the Fairisle pattern more and thought I'd try it with this navy blue subtle pinstripe suit (with less success IMHO)
herringbonekid
I'll Lock Up
- Messages
- 6,016
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- East Sussex, England
Kostya said:
thanks, it's a 1940s Swiss/German shirt from a vintage shop in London.
herringbonekid
I'll Lock Up
- Messages
- 6,016
- Location
- East Sussex, England
Mr. Rover said:
don't be too self critical Ray, it works.
the only thing i'd change would be the bit of sweater visible under the jacket.
i can understand though the fear of being captured by the Sartorialist when you're not feeling you're looking your best.
nightandthecity
Practically Family
- Messages
- 904
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- 1938
THE SLIPOVER.....
Fair Isle style knitwear is so closely associated with the sleeveless slipover or “tank top” that you sometimes hear people refer to any sleeveless pullover as a “Fair Isle”, even solid coloured ones. So I thought I’d add a bit to this thread on the history of the slipover and the longstanding claim of one British company to have invented this garment….
PICK of Leicester (c.1856 - 1991) were one of the great British knitwear manufacturers. In peacetime they were known for a relatively small output of high quality items, in wartime they were a premier supplier to the armed forces. Over the years I have heard it said that they actually invented the sleeveless “slipover” or tank top, giving it the factory type number “777”. Having just got hold of a Pick 777 and being about to list it on eBay, I thought I’d do a bit of Google research, and came up with two versions of the story…..both written by the same family member but at different times! This was John Pick, who was sales manager in the 1950s. I quote:
“Beneath the fireworks J. Pick and Sons' basic range remained the cardigan, pullover and children's jersey, and did not receive a permanent addition until the slipover jumped onto the scene seeming at first as queer as a surrealist painting.
About 1929 Kenneth Bramall, Picks' London agent and the brother-in-law of Sydney and Arthur, saw an expensive example of the new garment and described it to the firm. They made one. It looked remarkably odd, everyone agreed, ludicrously short after the long pullovers they were used to, but they considered that if they could produce a quality garment at a lower price it might succeed. A Leicester wholesaler took it up energetically and the slipover began to sell. One Brighton retailer had faith in the new sleeveless wonder and carried a considerable stock. A well-known band-leader whose 'boys' were rooting and tooting in Brighton at the time bought one, the blood rushed to his head and in a burst of enthusiasm he equipped the whole band with them. This set a fashion and the young men flocked for slipovers; it's hardly considered eccentric to wear one now.”
“Picks had two weapons - the pressure of advertising and an undemonstrative garment marketed under the magic number 777. The genus 'slipover' - a sleeveless pullover with a V neck - was virtually Picks' invention. When London agent Kenneth Bramall saw a knitted waistcoat in a shop window he was struck by the thought, 'Why not a pullover without sleeves to be worn under a jacket?' The description 'slipover' and the number 777 followed. The designation was a gift from Arthur, Sydney's younger brother, who had emerged from the war-time Army with the rank of Captain…….777 was knitted from hard-wearing wool yarn in a unique stitch which many manufacturers tried in vain to imitate. They failed because the garments were made on machines designed by the Leicester genius J.C.Moore, machines which by the end of the nineteen-twenties had become almost impossible to obtain. 777 was sold in a wide variety of accommodating colours, and had the useful characteristic of being immediately recognisable.
One of the best-known bandleaders of the day, by rigging out his entire orchestra in 777, woke people up to its charms; slipovers took off and flew without benefit of wings. Labourers in the fields, machine-minders in factories, clerks in offices, paddlers at the sea-side, spectators at football-matches, cue-wielders in billiard saloons, darts-players in pubs, distinguished gentlemen at race-meetings and respectable personages in sober clubs all wore 777. It can still be glimpsed in Television plays set in the 1930s or 40s, employed as an identification mark of the period Wholesalers had to have the number; if they wanted it they must accept a Pick label in the neck.”
The first account suggests Pick simply popularized the idea after Bramall saw an existing slipover, but the second account specifically states that what inspired Bramall was in fact a “knitted waistcoat” or sleeveless cardigan, which would suggest Pick might indeed have invented the slipover (though there is no guarantee that others hadn’t independently had the same idea, as is often the case in these sort of “single source” claims).
Whatever, Pick were always closely associated with the garment, and the knit of the 777 was indeed unique. Having closely examined mine, the knit appears to be double layered, with an almost sponge-like bouncy texture. You can see the unique pattern in the pics below, though you really have to feel one of these to appreciate the soft, springy texture! This example was made between 1949 (when this particular logo was introduced) and 1964 (when the Woolmark became mandatory)…probably pre 1960, because in 1960 and for the next few years Pick largely went over to synthetics.
Apparently no-one could copy the knit because the machines were unique….“Picks bought a lot of Moore's machines, which served them long and faithfully. Moore would not and could not standardise: -while making one machine he thought of an improvement, an adjustment, a new idea, and in it went on the next. Parts were not interchangeable, for no two machines were twins. Moore was an artist, he found it boring to do the same thing twice, and had neither patience nor inclination to turn himself into a business man. With each machine came Moore or his foreman to explain it to the operator; they were all so different that they could never be known simply as 'the Moore machines' one had to be 'Tom Brown's machine,' and another 'Skinner's machine.' Moore's output was small, and Picks depended so much on him that Mr. George went round the auctions buying machines second-hand; after his retirement his sons did the same. When Moore died at the end of the 1920s Picks bought the business, standardised their machines, then closed it down. Many Moore circular frames, some greatly modified, still work at Picks (in 1956), living beside the latest contemporary models without quarrelling at all.”
You can read more about the company here:
http://www.pickfamily.co.uk/history.htm
Fair Isle style knitwear is so closely associated with the sleeveless slipover or “tank top” that you sometimes hear people refer to any sleeveless pullover as a “Fair Isle”, even solid coloured ones. So I thought I’d add a bit to this thread on the history of the slipover and the longstanding claim of one British company to have invented this garment….
PICK of Leicester (c.1856 - 1991) were one of the great British knitwear manufacturers. In peacetime they were known for a relatively small output of high quality items, in wartime they were a premier supplier to the armed forces. Over the years I have heard it said that they actually invented the sleeveless “slipover” or tank top, giving it the factory type number “777”. Having just got hold of a Pick 777 and being about to list it on eBay, I thought I’d do a bit of Google research, and came up with two versions of the story…..both written by the same family member but at different times! This was John Pick, who was sales manager in the 1950s. I quote:
“Beneath the fireworks J. Pick and Sons' basic range remained the cardigan, pullover and children's jersey, and did not receive a permanent addition until the slipover jumped onto the scene seeming at first as queer as a surrealist painting.
About 1929 Kenneth Bramall, Picks' London agent and the brother-in-law of Sydney and Arthur, saw an expensive example of the new garment and described it to the firm. They made one. It looked remarkably odd, everyone agreed, ludicrously short after the long pullovers they were used to, but they considered that if they could produce a quality garment at a lower price it might succeed. A Leicester wholesaler took it up energetically and the slipover began to sell. One Brighton retailer had faith in the new sleeveless wonder and carried a considerable stock. A well-known band-leader whose 'boys' were rooting and tooting in Brighton at the time bought one, the blood rushed to his head and in a burst of enthusiasm he equipped the whole band with them. This set a fashion and the young men flocked for slipovers; it's hardly considered eccentric to wear one now.”
“Picks had two weapons - the pressure of advertising and an undemonstrative garment marketed under the magic number 777. The genus 'slipover' - a sleeveless pullover with a V neck - was virtually Picks' invention. When London agent Kenneth Bramall saw a knitted waistcoat in a shop window he was struck by the thought, 'Why not a pullover without sleeves to be worn under a jacket?' The description 'slipover' and the number 777 followed. The designation was a gift from Arthur, Sydney's younger brother, who had emerged from the war-time Army with the rank of Captain…….777 was knitted from hard-wearing wool yarn in a unique stitch which many manufacturers tried in vain to imitate. They failed because the garments were made on machines designed by the Leicester genius J.C.Moore, machines which by the end of the nineteen-twenties had become almost impossible to obtain. 777 was sold in a wide variety of accommodating colours, and had the useful characteristic of being immediately recognisable.
One of the best-known bandleaders of the day, by rigging out his entire orchestra in 777, woke people up to its charms; slipovers took off and flew without benefit of wings. Labourers in the fields, machine-minders in factories, clerks in offices, paddlers at the sea-side, spectators at football-matches, cue-wielders in billiard saloons, darts-players in pubs, distinguished gentlemen at race-meetings and respectable personages in sober clubs all wore 777. It can still be glimpsed in Television plays set in the 1930s or 40s, employed as an identification mark of the period Wholesalers had to have the number; if they wanted it they must accept a Pick label in the neck.”
The first account suggests Pick simply popularized the idea after Bramall saw an existing slipover, but the second account specifically states that what inspired Bramall was in fact a “knitted waistcoat” or sleeveless cardigan, which would suggest Pick might indeed have invented the slipover (though there is no guarantee that others hadn’t independently had the same idea, as is often the case in these sort of “single source” claims).
Whatever, Pick were always closely associated with the garment, and the knit of the 777 was indeed unique. Having closely examined mine, the knit appears to be double layered, with an almost sponge-like bouncy texture. You can see the unique pattern in the pics below, though you really have to feel one of these to appreciate the soft, springy texture! This example was made between 1949 (when this particular logo was introduced) and 1964 (when the Woolmark became mandatory)…probably pre 1960, because in 1960 and for the next few years Pick largely went over to synthetics.
Apparently no-one could copy the knit because the machines were unique….“Picks bought a lot of Moore's machines, which served them long and faithfully. Moore would not and could not standardise: -while making one machine he thought of an improvement, an adjustment, a new idea, and in it went on the next. Parts were not interchangeable, for no two machines were twins. Moore was an artist, he found it boring to do the same thing twice, and had neither patience nor inclination to turn himself into a business man. With each machine came Moore or his foreman to explain it to the operator; they were all so different that they could never be known simply as 'the Moore machines' one had to be 'Tom Brown's machine,' and another 'Skinner's machine.' Moore's output was small, and Picks depended so much on him that Mr. George went round the auctions buying machines second-hand; after his retirement his sons did the same. When Moore died at the end of the 1920s Picks bought the business, standardised their machines, then closed it down. Many Moore circular frames, some greatly modified, still work at Picks (in 1956), living beside the latest contemporary models without quarrelling at all.”
You can read more about the company here:
http://www.pickfamily.co.uk/history.htm
Alan Eardley
One Too Many
- Messages
- 1,500
- Location
- Midlands, UK
Excellent stuff!
Pick, of course, made many of the war-time and post war military Jerseys and pullovers. I have a slipover that is clearly a copy of the 777, but the knit isn't quite as good.
Alan
Pick, of course, made many of the war-time and post war military Jerseys and pullovers. I have a slipover that is clearly a copy of the 777, but the knit isn't quite as good.
Alan
nightandthecity
Practically Family
- Messages
- 904
- Location
- 1938
From John Pick's account it was the military contracts that saved them.
I have a couple of WW2 era slipovers and one does appear to be a Pick - it has a simple Royal Navy label only, but has sections of the 777 knit as in the photos above, which alternate with a classic nautical cable knit. Very fetching!
I have a couple of WW2 era slipovers and one does appear to be a Pick - it has a simple Royal Navy label only, but has sections of the 777 knit as in the photos above, which alternate with a classic nautical cable knit. Very fetching!
