Explaining the Aero Fit.

[Canuck Panda]

@TooManyHatsOnlyOneHead That's why Brown CXL is one of the G O A T. The finishing, pull up, is truly unqiue. The stiffness can be cured by either thinning or always have a warming option near by.

@Salmosalar Can't wait to see your Baddy with the shearling liner. Did you get quilted lined sleeves? I would think a setup like that is a lot easier to wear than full shearling jacket, and just as warm.

@Edward I think depending on model, the Aero moto jackets aren't as tapered as the Elvis photo.
The only one that I know has that kind of drop is the Indian Ranger. The Dayton or J106 is actually the same as the halfbelt, just one inch shorter.
It's unfortunate the market is changing the heritage brands in different directions. Crombie is one of the best example. Stilled closed and uncertain what's happening next.

After some look through, I had come to another assumption. There is actually only two pattern blocks with Aero. The regular Aero line (1950's and 1930's are the same), and the Japanese STF line (higher armhole than the standard, and so the slimmer sleeves).

I don't have enough 1930's models to confirm this. But the one I have has the same fit as the 1950's jacket in a smaller size, arm hole wise. Can members with both 30's and 50's jacket confirm that the arm hole height fits the same in different sizes.

And this would make sense for the manufacturer. To have just one master block to tweak from. The only two things for tweaking would be neck hole size and hem size. But this also create a lot of opportunities for quality control issues.

My guess is that Aero's 50's Size 40 = 30's Size 42 = Japanese 44. Half belt is 26" Long, and everything else is one to two inch shorter depending on design. The hem width will vary base on the design of the jacket. And the neck holes is suppose to line up with the corresponding tag size, 17" for Medium, 18" for Large. But this has been what I assume the biggest quality issue Aero has that has caused all the trouble.

 

[Marc mndt]

@TooManyHatsOnlyOneHead That's why Brown CXL is one of the G O A T. The finishing, pull up, is truly unqiue. The stiffness can be cured by either thinning or always have a warming option near by.

@Salmosalar Can't wait to see your Baddy with the shearling liner. Did you get quilted lined sleeves? I would think a setup like that is a lot easier to wear than full shearling jacket, and just as warm.

@Edward I think depending on model, the Aero moto jackets aren't as tapered as the Elvis photo.
The only one that I know has that kind of drop is the Indian Ranger. The Dayton or J106 is actually the same as the halfbelt, just one inch shorter.
It's unfortunate the market is changing the heritage brands in different directions. Crombie is one of the best example. Stilled closed and uncertain what's happening next.

After some look through, I had come to another assumption. There is actually only two pattern blocks with Aero. The regular Aero line (1950's and 1930's are the same), and the Japanese STF line (higher armhole than the standard, and so the slimmer sleeves).

I don't have enough 1930's models to confirm this. But the one I have has the same fit as the 1950's jacket in a smaller size, arm hole wise. Can members with both 30's and 50's jacket confirm that the arm hole height fits the same in different sizes.

And this would make sense for the manufacturer. To have just one master block to tweak from. The only two things for tweaking would be neck hole size and hem size. But this also create a lot of opportunities for quality control issues.

My guess is that Aero's 50's Size 40 = 30's Size 42 = Japanese 44. Half belt is 26" Long, and everything else is one to two inch shorter depending on design. The hem width will vary base on the design of the jacket. And the neck holes is suppose to line up with the corresponding tag size, 17" for Medium, 18" for Large. But this has been what I assume the biggest quality issue Aero has that has caused all the trouble.


View attachment 357669

The moonshiner and the Daytona (first two) are almost the same in terms of measurement, yet the Daytona looks much cleaner.

Different patterns, or different leathers?

 

[Canuck Panda]

The moonshiner and the Daytona (first two) are almost the same in terms of measurement, yet the Daytona looks much cleaner.

Different patterns, or different leathers?

They are the same. The moonshiner is one inch longer in the back, and the leather is almost twice as thick as the Daytona. Same midnight blue CXL leather, but the Daytona uses the thinnest CXL I have (2.5 oz max, thinner than Lewis sheep). That's why I am a true believer of thinner CXL now. I know this sounds crazy because thicker CXL is demanded here, but in my experience the thin CXL is obviously the better choice. It handles water just as well, and the deep multi finish is still there, but thinner means easier to wear and drape a lot better.

 

[Salmosalar]

@TooManyHatsOnlyOneHead That's why Brown CXL is one of the G O A T. The finishing, pull up, is truly unqiue. The stiffness can be cured by either thinning or always have a warming option near by.

@Salmosalar Can't wait to see your Baddy with the shearling liner. Did you get quilted lined sleeves? I would think a setup like that is a lot easier to wear than full shearling jacket, and just as warm.

Yes - I went with the rayon padded wool sleeves. It is in production now, so hopefully I can report back on the experiment soon. I spent a lot of time thinking about the best option for a winter jacket and this was the best blend I came up with through Aero - I wanted something longer than a normal halfbelt, but not too long, with a robust leather outer rather than shearling but with the warmth of the latter as a lining and a mouton collar. I also wanted something close fitting that would be worn over a shirt or t shirt as I rarely layer up beyond that, and the Wayfarer seemed the best option based on a CXL one I had already - but I wanted a different outer than CXL to avoid the stiffening effect in the cold. I also planned to do it in goat for the water repellence and toughness - BUT then my Slimfit MC in black badalassi turned up and it is such an amazing hide that I switched out the goat for it in the end. I asked them ti remove the wrist straps and fit storm cuffs to the sleeves, as the former annoy me as they just seem to catch on things and perform no real purpose, so I wanted cleaner lines with the seal coming in the inside of the sleeve instead, I also thought the black outer with dark brown lining and collar would be a smart and unusual but practical combo. I have no idea how it will work, but this just outlines how I ended up with these choices - fingers crossed! I will report back when it arrives…..I have great hopes for it as there is a gap between the ANJ4 and my other leathers that I feel this could fill perfectly if it all goes to plan….


@Edward I think depending on model, the Aero moto jackets aren't as tapered as the Elvis photo.
The only one that I know has that kind of drop is the Indian Ranger. The Dayton or J106 is actually the same as the halfbelt, just one inch shorter.
It's unfortunate the market is changing the heritage brands in different directions. Crombie is one of the best example. Stilled closed and uncertain what's happening next.

After some look through, I had come to another assumption. There is actually only two pattern blocks with Aero. The regular Aero line (1950's and 1930's are the same), and the Japanese STF line (higher armhole than the standard, and so the slimmer sleeves).

I don't have enough 1930's models to confirm this. But the one I have has the same fit as the 1950's jacket in a smaller size, arm hole wise. Can members with both 30's and 50's jacket confirm that the arm hole height fits the same in different sizes.

And this would make sense for the manufacturer. To have just one master block to tweak from. The only two things for tweaking would be neck hole size and hem size. But this also create a lot of opportunities for quality control issues.

My guess is that Aero's 50's Size 40 = 30's Size 42 = Japanese 44. Half belt is 26" Long, and everything else is one to two inch shorter depending on design. The hem width will vary base on the design of the jacket. And the neck holes is suppose to line up with the corresponding tag size, 17" for Medium, 18" for Large. But this has been what I assume the biggest quality issue Aero has that has caused all the trouble.


View attachment 357669

 

[Canuck Panda]

@Salmosalar I didn't know wool backed rayon was an option. Nice. It will be warm enough for sure.

 

[Salmosalar]

@Salmosalar I didn't know wool backed rayon was an option. Nice. It will be warm enough for sure.

Yes - it is one of their lining options - initially I planned on having it in the body too, but then decided to go for the Full Monty with shearling in the body and just keep the wool and rayon in the sleeves….

 

[MrProper]

Not trying to make it any more complicated. But I found this write up which helps to explain the "Aero pattern problem" is just different body shapes, slope shoulder vs square shoulder.

http://lineofselvage.blog/?p=4247

View attachment 357363
View attachment 357364

Different body shapes will crease the jacket in two different ways. This explains why only some folks would experience the "/ \" crease, and others would experience "\ /" crease, on the same jacket.

Aero 50's pattern in my experience has pretty flat shoulders, vs say LW.

I had also written about the shoulders somewhere here. The angle of neck to shoulder is too small and thus for many is too much material on the chest. And that then gives these wrinkles.
My guess is that the Cafe Racer pattern originally intended shoulder pads and the angle was flattened for that.
You can easily test: who has the wrinkle, underpads the shoulder with foam, socks or something else. The wrinkles become significantly less or disappear. The wider the jacket, the less noticeable it is.
I once measured a well-fitting jacket. The falls on 18 cm shoulder by 7 cm, whereas it is with the Cafe Racer on 18 cm only 5 cm.

 

[Edward]

@TooManyHatsOnlyOneHead That's why Brown CXL is one of the G O A T. The finishing, pull up, is truly unqiue. The stiffness can be cured by either thinning or always have a warming option near by.

@Salmosalar Can't wait to see your Baddy with the shearling liner. Did you get quilted lined sleeves? I would think a setup like that is a lot easier to wear than full shearling jacket, and just as warm.

@Edward I think depending on model, the Aero moto jackets aren't as tapered as the Elvis photo.
The only one that I know has that kind of drop is the Indian Ranger. The Dayton or J106 is actually the same as the halfbelt, just one inch shorter.
It's unfortunate the market is changing the heritage brands in different directions. Crombie is one of the best example. Stilled closed and uncertain what's happening next.

After some look through, I had come to another assumption. There is actually only two pattern blocks with Aero. The regular Aero line (1950's and 1930's are the same), and the Japanese STF line (higher armhole than the standard, and so the slimmer sleeves).

I don't have enough 1930's models to confirm this. But the one I have has the same fit as the 1950's jacket in a smaller size, arm hole wise. Can members with both 30's and 50's jacket confirm that the arm hole height fits the same in different sizes.

And this would make sense for the manufacturer. To have just one master block to tweak from. The only two things for tweaking would be neck hole size and hem size. But this also create a lot of opportunities for quality control issues.

My guess is that Aero's 50's Size 40 = 30's Size 42 = Japanese 44. Half belt is 26" Long, and everything else is one to two inch shorter depending on design. The hem width will vary base on the design of the jacket. And the neck holes is suppose to line up with the corresponding tag size, 17" for Medium, 18" for Large. But this has been what I assume the biggest quality issue Aero has that has caused all the trouble.


View attachment 357669

I've had three halfbelts in a 30s patter and a Bootlegger. The Bootlegger as standard is basically a 50s HB with a lancer front. The Bootlegger is definitely just a snip roomier, slightly less tapered. My first leather Aero, I bought it in a 42. I might consider a size up these days. That said, at fighting weight, I can easily fit a shirt and waistcoat under the sz42 Bootlegger and zip it up. The 30s Slim Halfbelt model, my 42 was a *very* tight fit zipped up with just a shirt under it, a good couple of inches smaller round the hem than the Bootlegger. The 44 I picked up later on is definitely closer to the 42 Bootlegger in fit, both in terms of the waist size and a little more room around the chest.

These, however, are all pre-2010 jackets; always worth checking with Aero what may have changed since Ken came back, as I believe a lot of patterns were reviewed in recent years. My 2014 Dustbowl is a 44, and definitely fits me like my old 44 30sHB, though.

 

[Canuck Panda]

@MrProper You're right. My Aero Cafe racer had those puffy sleeves at the shoulder seams that could fit some paddings under. But still, I think it's best Aero can update their cafe racer pattern so it has less material in the upper back.

@Edward That's one thing I didn't thought of, the change in management and pattern updates as a result. All my Aero's are bought under the new management when Ken returned.
This just made buying an used Aero even more complicated.

 

[TooManyHatsOnlyOneHead]

Been wearing my Sheene past couple days as I debate whether I really want to sell it or not. It really is a nice jacket and every time I put it on, I do feel it softening up and forming a bit more.

This morning I put on my blue cafe racer which has almost identical measurement specs. It's amazing the overall feel and fit difference even though it's the same pattern. The racer has gussets which adds to more mobility but also adds arguably more of "biker" look as well, so it's a different look. I prefer my jackets to have a really clean silhouette so that's why I got the Sheene for variation.

I think the biggest factor in those creases (besides the angle of your shoulders) is the positioning of those shoulder seams as you noted, either front overlaying back (like with the gussets) or back overlaying front (like without gussets). I think the pull of the front being on top really helps smooth out those neck creases and has less to do with the inclusion of gussets.

Wondering how complicated a seamstress job it would be to flip the seams around? To my novice eye, I think it could work to unstitch it, fold the back part under now instead of on top and then restitch.

 

[Canuck Panda]

@TooManyHatsOnlyOneHead
I think flipping the shoulder seams would be a total redo job. Not sure. Because they are stitched together and then top stitched again with the fold. Plus then theres the sleeve attachment to worry about too.
But you're spot on. Shoulder construction make or break a jacket for comfort. I've notice this in the GW I got here in the classifieds too. It's got an overhanging front panel so most of the jacket sits on the front not the back and distribute the weight evenly across the shoulder. It was a direct copy of the old Californian jacket so they must have done something right back then.

 

[TooManyHatsOnlyOneHead]

Nice jacket!

Yeah nothing is as easy as it seems lol.

Mentally I've gotten over the extra creases. I don't see it as a "formal" jacket anyway that needs to lay perfect. It has more of that crumpled,, vintage,, grab and go look.. And comfort wise it's ok and getting better as it continues to break in. I've only got maybe 50 good wears on it, so lots to go. It's all good. I think it was more of a combo of maybe being a tad small for me as well. Although wearing past couple days has me thinking it's closer than I remembered. If I can get the handwarmers to lay flat, I'd be ok. Going to try some velcro and if that works, will add an inside snap or zippers.

Think I'm going to keep and see how it continues to develop. Seems dumb to take several hundred dollar loss over some ocd stuff lol. Besides I got a couple skinny boys that can wear soon. Hell of a first jacket to cut your teeth on

 

[jacketjunkie]

I just checked with a bunch of my jackets and I am not convinced of the „shoulder seam theory“. Regardless of maker, construction and shoulder seams, with all my jackets, the ones that fit comfortably are the ones with larger neck holes. The smaller the neck hole, the higher on my neck the jacket rests and the less comfortable it is. More shoulder slope may allow for a smaller neck hole as it results in overall better weight distribution over the shoulders but the seams? Idk..

Anyway that‘s my findings on 3 Aeros, five Vansons, 3 Johnson Leathers and one Langlitz, maybe others can contribute contradicting results and experiences with their jackets.

 

[Marc mndt]

I just checked with a bunch of my jackets and I am not convinced of the „shoulder seam theory“

I don't get it. What should I be looking for exactly?

 

[jacketjunkie]

I don't get it. What should I be looking for exactly?

If I get it right, his idea is that if the front panels rest on the shoulders and the shoulder seams are behind that point, this helps with weight distribution and more comfortable fit (see the last picture where you can see his shoulder joint rest below the upper end of the front panels.

 

[Canuck Panda]

Nice jacket!

Yeah nothing is as easy as it seems lol.

Mentally I've gotten over the extra creases. I don't see it as a "formal" jacket anyway that needs to lay perfect. It has more of that crumpled,, vintage,, grab and go look.. And comfort wise it's ok and getting better as it continues to break in. I've only got maybe 50 good wears on it, so lots to go. It's all good. I think it was more of a combo of maybe being a tad small for me as well. Although wearing past couple days has me thinking it's closer than I remembered. If I can get the handwarmers to lay flat, I'd be ok. Going to try some velcro and if that works, will add an inside snap or zippers.

Think I'm going to keep and see how it continues to develop. Seems dumb to take several hundred dollar loss over some ocd stuff lol. Besides I got a couple skinny boys that can wear soon. Hell of a first jacket to cut your teeth on

I think TB size the jacket base on open wear and looking good for photo. But for everyday wear it has to be one size up or same size but bigger neck hole. I had the same problem with my Cafe racer and that's the only Aero I have sold.

Also where do I sign up for adult adoption if the prize is an Aero jacket? JK.

I just checked with a bunch of my jackets and I am not convinced of the „shoulder seam theory“. Regardless of maker, construction and shoulder seams, with all my jackets, the ones that fit comfortably are the ones with larger neck holes. The smaller the neck hole, the higher on my neck the jacket rests and the less comfortable it is. More shoulder slope may allow for a smaller neck hole as it results in overall better weight distribution over the shoulders but the seams? Idk..

Anyway that‘s my findings on 3 Aeros, five Vansons, 3 Johnson Leathers and one Langlitz, maybe others can contribute contradicting results and experiences with their jackets.

Right. Larger neck holes definitely helps. In the same size 40 Aero's neck hole can be as small as 15-16" range, while JL size 40 has the largest neck hole in the 19" to 20" range. Both has the same 23" to 24" P2P, 19" ish shoulder width. To be fair most of my size 40 Aero's have 17" neck hole, which is tight, considering it's meant for 16" neck shirts. The 16" neck hole one was obviously a quality issue. But still. Aero neck hole by design is smaller. This together with the thick stiff CXL doesn't make their moto jacket very moto friendly. Looks good though.

I don't get it. What should I be looking for exactly?

Some Shoulder Seams sits further back so there is more front panels resting on the actual entire shoulder. I gotta find a better way to show this in the photo. The Aero 50's block is actually like this, so I do find it comfortable on the shoulders. The thing that could use some improvement is the size of the neck hole. But I think they did this to achieve the different W collar look in the Tanaka book. I don't have it with me so no photo, but not all W collar look the same.

 

[TooManyHatsOnlyOneHead]

Also where do I sign up for adult adoption if the prize is an Aero jacket? JK.

LOL. These kids got it good today. I used to get an old pair of already worn out shoes as hand me downs LOL.

Yeah, I think maybe the thought process side tracked. I don't think it was meant to say all jackets should have shoulder seams sewn a certain way as a magic bullet cure all. It seems to be a perfect storm scenario of the aero cut with the neck hole, overall pattern, etc. Probably not just one thing, but comparing apples to apples (my Sheene with my Racer) that's the main difference. Limited case study and a few other variables (i.e. the blue cxl seems to be maybe thinner or just more broken in, possible since it's a year older). But in any case, I'm not doing any restitching or playing pattern maker for a day. I either keep it and be happy with it or move it on. Life is too short.

 

[Rich22]

View attachment 358105

What the heck happened to that collar? It looks a terrible mess.

 

[Marc mndt]

If I get it right, his idea is that if the front panels rest on the shoulders and the shoulder seams are behind that point, this helps with weight distribution and more comfortable fit (see the last picture where you can see his shoulder joint rest below the upper end of the front panels.

Ah I see. I just checked, pretty much all my vintage jackets have the shoulder seam to the front so that can't be it.

 

[Canuck Panda]

What the heck happened to that collar? It looks a terrible mess.

It's too small. The neck hole was in the 15" range if I remember correctly, but I wear dress shirts with 16" collar. This is what I mean when I say sizing down in Aero would not help because neck hole becomes too small. And because of that, the / \ crease happens. Even in zipped up mode, you can see the slight / \ creases. This is not an Aero pattern issue, but a sizing issue. In my experience, I wore the wrong size. If I bought a size or two up , I would not have the /\ creases but I also might not like how it fits in the body. This is why I say Aero has smaller neck holes for their tag size, especially compared to other makers.