Engel & Co. Hats

[belfastboy]

Price points are so subjective. My tax bracket puts me in the Chevy/Honda range not the M/B's but I do have some pricey vintage Borsalinos, a couple of hats from Northwest, some cheapie Ebay finds and some Akubras and the one common thread for all of them is that I love having a hat on my head. Whether I am wearing an expensive Borsa or my $40 vintage Bloomingdales it does not feel appreciably different.....they all feel good and help to make me feel good.

 

[moontheloon]

Have you ever spent $900 on a hat?

Better yet on a hat made by someone with basically zero reputation or even reviews to read?

I've been searching for anyone who has one if these and I'm having a hard time finding anyone who has even heard of these hats.

Price subjective? Sure

I've stated countless times on this forum that a hat is only worth what you are willing to pay for it

Is $900 a ridiculous price point for these particular hats?
In my opinion 100% yes

It is never good business to price out your niche market right at the gate
Especially in the narrow demographic that is the dress hat wearing public



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[belfastboy]

In my business (environmental consulting) when we get busy and a Request for Proposal comes along we will throw out an inflated price just to keep our foot in the door. If we get the contract the inflated price will make it worth our while to work overtime, if we don't get it we don't really care as we are busy enough. Perhaps Engal Hats is busy enough and if someone comes along willing to pay an inflated price for his hats he will take the order if not, it is not a problem.

 

[moontheloon]

He must be awfully busy

If he was that busy you would think I would be able to find someone who has even heard of his product


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[moontheloon]

I feel the need to say again that I mean zero disrespect to the Engel hat co.

The hats are beautiful from what I have seen.

But I would be lying if I said that I didn't feel ever so slightly disrespected as a consumer and collector of fine headwear


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[belfastboy]

As I am a Chevy/Honda guy I probably don't travel in $900 hat circles!
Over the holidays I went to my bosses house for a scotch whisky tasting, a $90 12 yr old Cardhu, a $250 20 yr old Glendronach and a $500 25 yr old Glen something........I could have stopped at the Cardhu and been very happy ....truth be told I could not discern much diff between the 3.....and probably could not tell much diff between my NW Hats, an Optimo or an Engel. If I was down to my last $100 would buy an Akubra and die a happy man.

 

[RJR]

Tough to find much wrong with any Akubra,belfastboy,I agree.

 

[mayserwegener]

Anthony is difficult to give answers on the price about work of another person.
I believe that the lack of consistency of the production of hats in the world is the main factor for which there are individual hatters.
Almost all the hats that run on FL are the work of large and medium companies (past and present), very few are made by individual hatters.
This is because the creation of the hats was the principal goal of the hats companies and the maintaining of the hats was in charge of the hatters mostly operating in the hats shops.
When the hats market failed and the companies simply survive lacked quality, the few lovers of quality hats has no makers.
The quality is now or in vintage hats or in hatters, although I doubt they reach the peaks of the companies of the past.
I think $ 900 is too much for a hat, but as long as the industry does not produce any decent hats, hatters will dictate their prices to customers who depending from them for alleged product quality.

This is 100% correct.

 

[hatophile]

As I am a Chevy/Honda guy I probably don't travel in $900 hat circles!
Over the holidays I went to my bosses house for a scotch whisky tasting, a $90 12 yr old Cardhu, a $250 20 yr old Glendronach and a $500 25 yr old Glen something........I could have stopped at the Cardhu and been very happy ....truth be told I could not discern much diff between the 3.....and probably could not tell much diff between my NW Hats, an Optimo or an Engel. If I was down to my last $100 would buy an Akubra and die a happy man.

There was a $1500 bottle of Glenlivet for sale at the local grocery store. The girl at the counter asked if I was interested in buying it. As much as I like great Scotch, I politely declined.

 

[belfastboy]

There was a $1500 bottle of Glenlivet for sale at the local grocery store. The girl at the counter asked if I was interested in buying it. As much as I like great Scotch, I politely declined.

I am happy with my $30 bottle of Bushmills.

 

[hatophile]

I am happy with my $30 bottle of Bushmills.

Same here...

 

[EstherWeis]

Well, 900$ is a pretty wide margin there... Yikes.
Fepsa beavers really aren't that expensive or that amazing in quality. For 900$ you would expect something more in my humble opinion.

From my point of view, I don't see how he ends up with that price tag. I'm thinking hours, material etc...

 

[moehawk]

I personally think 900 bucks is too much for a hat, but I have never had that kind of disposable income. If money wasn't an object, I'd probably be wearing one of those suckers with a Brioni suit and some sweet bespoke George Cleverley wingtips. Like the old saying goes...Life is like a crap sandwich...the more bread you have, the less crap you have to eat...

 

[belfastboy]

Or, the more bread, the more crap you have to take care of!!

 

[moehawk]

That kind of bread, you hire people to take care of your stuff...I doubt I'd clean my own mansion if I had one!

 

[Hurricane Jack]

I could never justify $900 for a custom made hat in my mind but I can see where custom made means different things to different buyers. To some buyers it means they call up a hatmaker and order their favorite style hat made on a standard size block; they get to pick the colors they want & maybe even have a choice in fur blends. Tough luck if your head is not a standard size block. You have to make due with what you bought. Get out your steamer. Regardless of the price I wouldn't call this a custom made hat.

Or maybe you chose to order from a hatmaker who mails you a measuring tape & paper template with a set of instructions on how to take specific measurements so that he then selects an appropriate hat block and adds or subtracts based on the specific measurements he requested. Perhaps your hat needs a taller crown from measurements taken from ear to ear, over the top of the head. Not uncommon to find differences in that measurement from a guy who is 6'5 vs a guy who is 5'6. We all know a long face looks better in a taller crown. Is this then a custom hat? This hatmaker certainly knows more about his craft than the one in the first example, and should set his price accordingly.

Then you have the hatmaker who uses a conformateur to measure the true shape of your head and builds you a true custom made-to-measure hat. I prefer him to take his own measurements in person. A knowledgable hatmaker can even adjust the measurements from the conformateur based on how I intend to use the hat I'm having him make. If it's to be a "banquet hat" where I frequently remove it indoors I prefer a slightly looser fit so as not to leave the dreaded ring across my forehead. If it's a hat I wear outside all day long under various conditions or perhaps a "BBQ hat" I don't intend to remove, then I prefer the normal fit of the conformateur. You can wear those hats all day long & never need to adjust it on your head. The hatter then saves the measurements from the conformateur in anticipation of your future orders. He is truly making you a custom hat and should set his price accordingly.

I've found this to be true with western hats anyway.

 

[Historyteach24]

900 is insane for something that goes on your head. Truly don't get it

 

[Bob Roberts]

He does claim to have a big fat 81 or 82 REVERSE TAPER block...

 

[belfastboy]

900 is insane for something that goes on your head. Truly don't get it

What about a hairpiece???

 

[mayserwegener]

I could never justify $900 for a custom made hat in my mind but I can see where custom made means different things to different buyers. To some buyers it means they call up a hatmaker and order their favorite style hat made on a standard size block; they get to pick the colors they want & maybe even have a choice in fur blends. Tough luck if your head is not a standard size block. You have to make due with what you bought. Get out your steamer. Regardless of the price I wouldn't call this a custom made hat.

Or maybe you chose to order from a hatmaker who mails you a measuring tape & paper template with a set of instructions on how to take specific measurements so that he then selects an appropriate hat block and adds or subtracts based on the specific measurements he requested. Perhaps your hat needs a taller crown from measurements taken from ear to ear, over the top of the head. Not uncommon to find differences in that measurement from a guy who is 6'5 vs a guy who is 5'6. We all know a long face looks better in a taller crown. Is this then a custom hat? This hatmaker certainly knows more about his craft than the one in the first example, and should set his price accordingly.

Then you have the hatmaker who uses a conformateur to measure the true shape of your head and builds you a true custom made-to-measure hat. I prefer him to take his own measurements in person. A knowledgable hatmaker can even adjust the measurements from the conformateur based on how I intend to use the hat I'm having him make. If it's to be a "banquet hat" where I frequently remove it indoors I prefer a slightly looser fit so as not to leave the dreaded ring across my forehead. If it's a hat I wear outside all day long under various conditions or perhaps a "BBQ hat" I don't intend to remove, then I prefer the normal fit of the conformateur. You can wear those hats all day long & never need to adjust it on your head. The hatter then saves the measurements from the conformateur in anticipation of your future orders. He is truly making you a custom hat and should set his price accordingly.

I've found this to be true with western hats anyway.

I am skeptical about the use of a conformer for Soft Felt hats. Back in the day they were used for Top Hats and Stiff Felts (maybe more stiff Soft Felts) which are rigid. As mentioned Soft Felt hats (same with Stiff Felts) were made in factories (local hatters refurbished such hats) to specific sizes (maybe down to 1/4s) and in some cases offered in long oval (block dependent).