Enemy Aliens During WW2

[CharleneC]

I can't see getting too worked up over something that happened decades ago and cannot be undone. Don't forget what was happening in the concentration camps in Europe during WWII. It isn't like the USA was killing the interned people.

 

[AmateisGal]

This thread has made me realize that there may be some very specific notions out there of what constitutes an "enemy alien" and who was "forced" to "relocate" to an "internment" camp and who wasn't, etc., etc.

This is what the Executive Order 9066 said:

Authorizing the Secretary of War to Prescribe Military Areas

Whereas the successful prosecution of the war requires every possible protection against espionage and against sabotage to national-defense material, national-defense premises, and national-defense utilities as defined in Section 4, Act of April 20, 1918, 40 Stat. 533, as amended by the Act of November 30, 1940, 54 Stat. 1220, and the Act of August 21, 1941, 55 Stat. 655 (U.S.C., Title 50, Sec. 104);

Now, therefore, by virtue of the authority vested in me as President of the United States, and Commander in Chief of the Army and Navy, I hereby authorize and direct the Secretary of War, and the Military Commanders whom he may from time to time designate, whenever he or any designated Commander deems such action necessary or desirable, to prescribe military areas in such places and of such extent as he or the appropriate Military Commander may determine, from which any or all persons may be excluded, and with respect to which, the right of any person to enter, remain in, or leave shall be subject to whatever restrictions the Secretary of War or the appropriate Military Commander may impose in his discretion. The Secretary of War is hereby authorized to provide for residents of any such area who are excluded therefrom, such transportation, food, shelter, and other accommodations as may be necessary, in the judgment of the Secretary of War or the said Military Commander, and until other arrangements are made, to accomplish the purpose of this order. The designation of military areas in any region or locality shall supersede designations of prohibited and restricted areas by the Attorney General under the Proclamations of December 7 and 8, 1941, and shall supersede the responsibility and authority of the Attorney General under the said Proclamations in respect of such prohibited and restricted areas.

I hereby further authorize and direct the Secretary of War and the said Military Commanders to take such other steps as he or the appropriate Military Commander may deem advisable to enforce compliance with the restrictions applicable to each Military area hereinabove authorized to be designated, including the use of Federal troops and other Federal Agencies, with authority to accept assistance of state and local agencies.

I hereby further authorize and direct all Executive Departments, independent establishments and other Federal Agencies, to assist the Secretary of War or the said Military Commanders in carrying out this Executive Order, including the furnishing of medical aid, hospitalization, food, clothing, transportation, use of land, shelter, and other supplies, equipment, utilities, facilities, and services.

This order shall not be construed as modifying or limiting in any way the authority heretofore granted under Executive Order No. 8972, dated December 12, 1941, nor shall it be construed as limiting or modifying the duty and responsibility of the Federal Bureau of Investigation, with respect to the investigation of alleged acts of sabotage or the duty and responsibility of the Attorney General and the Department of Justice under the Proclamations of December 7 and 8, 1941, prescribing regulations for the conduct and control of alien enemies, except as such duty and responsibility is superseded by the designation of military areas hereunder.

Franklin D. Roosevelt

The White House,

February 19, 1942.

 

[AmateisGal]

This link is to the website of former German alien internee, Arthur Jacobs, who has been working on this topic for numerous years. He's gone to Congress and compiled a massive amount of research on all of this, most notably from FBI files.

I found this page to be of particular interest:

http://www.foitimes.com/internment/Myths.htm

 

[AmateisGal]

I'm almost done with my article, and it's been eye-opening. There WERE American citizens of German and Italian heritage who were arrested and interned. One such case was Mario Valdastri. He had become an American citizen in 1919. He lived in Hawaii and on Dec. 8, 1941, he was arrested. He did not know what that charges were. In March of 1942, he was placed in internment at Fort McDowell in San Francisco. He was a civilian internee under the jurisdiction of the War Department.

In addition, according to noted historian Arnold Krammer, "An 8 December 1941 memorandum from J. Edgar Hoover to Major Lemuel Schofield of the INS not only confirmed that the government had indeed developed a massive list of people targeted for arrest in the event of war, but more importantly, that the majority of those to be arrested immediately were American citizens rather than German enemy aliens."

 

[jamespowers]

I'm almost done with my article, and it's been eye-opening. There WERE American citizens of German and Italian heritage who were arrested and interned. One such case was Mario Valdastri. He had become an American citizen in 1919. He lived in Hawaii and on Dec. 8, 1941, he was arrested. He did not know what that charges were. In March of 1942, he was placed in internment at Fort McDowell in San Francisco. He was a civilian internee under the jurisdiction of the War Department.

In addition, according to noted historian Arnold Krammer, "An 8 December 1941 memorandum from J. Edgar Hoover to Major Lemuel Schofield of the INS not only confirmed that the government had indeed developed a massive list of people targeted for arrest in the event of war, but more importantly, that the majority of those to be arrested immediately were American citizens rather than German enemy aliens."

And they used the 1940 census data to do it.

 

[AmateisGal]

And they used the 1940 census data to do it.

Correct.

This topic has so many twists and turns that there is no way I'll be able to fit it all in within my article. I've also found out that the U.S. pretty much kidnapped quite a few German immigrants living in Latin America, with the approval of the Latin American governments, of course. The U.S. used them in prisoner exchanges with Germany.

 

[jamespowers]

Correct.

This topic has so many twists and turns that there is no way I'll be able to fit it all in within my article. I've also found out that the U.S. pretty much kidnapped quite a few German immigrants living in Latin America, with the approval of the Latin American governments, of course. The U.S. used them in prisoner exchanges with Germany.

They also got several German scientists after the war from the same area.

Then they wonder why I don't fill out anything on my census form except how many people live here.

I have been playing around with this topic for quite some time. I know several Italians that were also either interned or moved to the center of the country. It is unfortunate that history only focuses on one group when there was more than one that were suspected and either interned or moved. I also laugh when I heard arguements that start with "Why did they only intern the Japanese?"

 

[AmateisGal]

They also got several German scientists after the war from the same area.

Then they wonder why I don't fill out anything on my census form except how many people live here.

I have been playing around with this topic for quite some time. I know several Italians that were also either interned or moved to the center of the country. It is unfortunate that history only focuses on one group when there was more than one that were suspected and either interned or moved. I also laugh when I heard arguements that start with "Why did they only intern the Japanese?"

One of the main problems is that the German and Italian internees simply did not talk about it. They were either ashamed of what happened, or didn't want to remember, or simply repressed it. That has caused difficulty with the historical record. The plight of the Japanese-Americans was well-known - they were even compensated by the U.S. government.

In wartime polls, Americans overwhelmingly pointed to the Germans in America as being more dangerous than the Japanese. Yet their story has virtually been lost. There are some great groups trying to keep it alive, though, and I hope they succeed.

 

[AmateisGal]

Here is another example of U.S. citizens of German ethnicity being interned.

http://www.gaic.info/real_berg.html

 

[jamespowers]

One of the main problems is that the German and Italian internees simply did not talk about it. They were either ashamed of what happened, or didn't want to remember, or simply repressed it. That has caused difficulty with the historical record. The plight of the Japanese-Americans was well-known - they were even compensated by the U.S. government.

In wartime polls, Americans overwhelmingly pointed to the Germans in America as being more dangerous than the Japanese. Yet their story has virtually been lost. There are some great groups trying to keep it alive, though, and I hope they succeed.

I thought they were prevented from talking about it under threat of prosecution---that is what a few Italian internees told me. They were let go and told not to talk about where they were to anyone.

 

[AmateisGal]

Yes, this is true, also. Arnold Krammer mentions that in his book, Undue Process: The Untold Story of America's German Alien Internees. I highly recommend it. His writing style is scholarly, yet very accessible. I was in touch with him when I worked on my master's thesis, which was on the German POWs held in America. He wrote a book on that, as well.

 

[sheeplady]

Yes, this is true, also. Arnold Krammer mentions that in his book, Undue Process: The Untold Story of America's German Alien Internees. I highly recommend it. His writing style is scholarly, yet very accessible. I was in touch with him when I worked on my master's thesis, which was on the German POWs held in America. He wrote a book on that, as well.

When you wrote your thesis did you run across any information on the German POWs held in Tioga County NY? If so, I'd be really interested in reading that section of your thesis on that locality.

 

[AmateisGal]

When you wrote your thesis did you run across any information on the German POWs held in Tioga County NY? If so, I'd be really interested in reading that section of your thesis on that locality.

It's possible. I'd have to dig through my notes. I focused on the German POW camp at Fort Robinson, Nebraska (northwest corner of Nebraska) since I was able to go there and do research (I also worked there in college).

 

[Gin&Tonics]

What I would find also very interesting is the experience of soldiers of Japanese, German and Italian descent who fought FOR Canada and the USA during the war. What a rough experience they must have had! And yet, such soldiers would have been extremely valuable particularly if they could fluently speak the languages.

In Canada a similar program was undertaken, and just as in the US, the only thing ever talked about is the internment of the Japanese on the west coast. I would be highly shocked to find out that Germans and Italians weren't also interned in Canada, but that is never talked about.

My dad was 3 when the war ended, so the war was a very recent event during the period of his childhood he could remember. I remember discussing the issue with him once. His view was that although it wasn't ideal, it was necessary because it was simply far too great a risk to Canada's national security not to get control of Japanese living on the west coast. My dad was not the least bit racist, either; he simply saw it as a necessary evil of the time.

 

[jamespowers]

What I would find also very interesting is the experience of soldiers of Japanese, German and Italian descent who fought FOR Canada and the USA during the war. What a rough experience they must have had! And yet, such soldiers would have been extremely valuable particularly if they could fluently speak the languages.

In Canada a similar program was undertaken, and just as in the US, the only thing ever talked about is the internment of the Japanese on the west coast. I would be highly shocked to find out that Germans and Italians weren't also interned in Canada, but that is never talked about.

My dad was 3 when the war ended, so the war was a very recent event during the period of his childhood he could remember. I remember discussing the issue with him once. His view was that although it wasn't ideal, it was necessary because it was simply far too great a risk to Canada's national security not to get control of Japanese living on the west coast. My dad was not the least bit racist, either; he simply saw it as a necessary evil of the time.

There were a fair number of decent citizens who took control of their Japanese neighbor's property while they were interned here. One local case of the Nakashimas was a good example. They owned a nursery and quite a bit of land before the war. When they were notified that they would soon be interned, they called on their neighbor. He gave them $1 for the land and business. He ran it while they were gone and when they returned; he got his dollar back and they got their land. This was not always the case though. Just as in the German case mentioned, many of them had land and possessions seized. The Nakashimas had a good neighbor.

 

[AmateisGal]

There were a fair number of decent citizens who took control of their Japanese neighbor's property while they were interned here. One local case of the Nakashimas was a good example. They owned a nursery and quite a bit of land before the war. When they were notified that they would soon be interned, they called on their neighbor. He gave them $1 for the land and business. He ran it while they were gone and when they returned; he got his dollar back and they got their land. This was not always the case though. Just as in the German case mentioned, many of them had land and possessions seized. The Nakashimas had a good neighbor.

A lot of people lost their homes and businesses. They couldn't pay the mortgages and loans. Well, how can one pay those things when they're locked up? So sad.

 

[jamespowers]

A lot of people lost their homes and businesses. They couldn't pay the mortgages and loans. Well, how can one pay those things when they're locked up? So sad.

Exactly. There were not tons of good neighbors that is for sure. Some even preyed on the unfortunate.

Did you also manage to fit into the report that some of the Italian internees were even relative of Joe DiMaggio? Amazingly, he could do nothing with his fame to benefit his family.

 

[LizzieMaine]

Joe was having troubles of his own. He was having major issues with his draft board -- he felt he was entitled to an exemption as sole support of his family, and when that got into the papers a huge scandal erupted over how this magnificent athletic specimen was trying to weasel out of military service, etc. He played thru the entire 1942 season with this mess hanging over his head, on top of the situation with his family, and ended up going into the Air Corps at the end of the season, where he was repeatedly written up for his bad attitude. He was extremely bitter about the whole experience for the rest of his life -- there were flag-waving patriotic ballplayers who gladly went off to war, but the Clipper wasn't one of them, and under the circs it's hard to blame him.

 

[sheeplady]

Joe was having troubles of his own. He was having major issues with his draft board -- he felt he was entitled to an exemption as sole support of his family

Technically wouldn't a huge portion of draftees qualified for such an exemption?

 

[jamespowers]

Joe was having troubles of his own. He was having major issues with his draft board -- he felt he was entitled to an exemption as sole support of his family, and when that got into the papers a huge scandal erupted over how this magnificent athletic specimen was trying to weasel out of military service, etc. He played thru the entire 1942 season with this mess hanging over his head, on top of the situation with his family, and ended up going into the Air Corps at the end of the season, where he was repeatedly written up for his bad attitude. He was extremely bitter about the whole experience for the rest of his life -- there were flag-waving patriotic ballplayers who gladly went off to war, but the Clipper wasn't one of them, and under the circs it's hard to blame him.

Yes, he was between a rock and a hard place there. He should have known better than to pull that though. What did he expect would happen?