Enemy Aliens During WW2

[Aristaeus]

" They put them in a camp, with barbed wire, with guards, and all the rest of it. That IS internment.

No they did not, only enemy aliens were interned. japanese, German and Italian Americans were forced to relocate, only the Japanese were givin the option of living in camps, which they could leave at anytime and many did. the rest had to fend for themselves.
Also Americans not of Italian, German, or Japanese decent were forced from their land by the Fed Gov't, for the building of dams, and other military installations. They were forced to sell thier land at below market value. Whole communities some of which had lived on their land for generations were forced to give it up.

 

[Aristaeus]

You're very much under the wrong impression then...

... resident aliens with Japanese citizenship and U.S. citizens of Japanese heritage living on the West Coast were required to relocate to designated locations. Because of the short time they were given to do so, many, many of them were forced in effect to abandon homes, businesses, jobs/careers.

You should read the orig post I responded to. We are talking about internment not relocation. I have never stated that they were not relocated.

 

[AmateisGal]

No they did not, only enemy aliens were interned. japanese, German and Italian Americans were forced to relocate, only the Japanese were givin the option of living in camps, which they could leave at anytime and many did. the rest had to fend for themselves.

You are saying only enemy aliens were interned and not citizens? And that citizens had the "option" of living in camps?

 

[LizzieMaine]

 

[AmateisGal]

I think I know where you're getting your information, Aristaeus. It's from this article:

http://www.foitimes.com/internment/fallon2.htm

But you need to make a key distinction - according to this article, the original Executive Order 9066 was amended two months after the internment was made active. This happened in February of 1942. So by this time, most everyone had been rounded up and were already living in the camps, citizen and enemy alien alike. Since homes were lost and businesses lost, those already in the camps may have had the option to leave, but doing so was a completely different ball of wax. They had nothing left to go back to, and in many cases, they would have been living in a very hostile environment should they choose to return to their homes.

Also - I would really like to see the sources for this article (and none are provided). As a historian, I like to check my facts.

 

[Aristaeus]

You are saying only enemy aliens were interned and not citizens? And that citizens had the "option" of living in camps?

Yes.

 

[AmateisGal]

Yes.

See comment above.

 

[Aristaeus]

I think I know where you're getting your information, Aristaeus. It's from this article:

http://www.foitimes.com/internment/fallon2.htm

But you need to make a key distinction - according to this article, the original Executive Order 9066 was amended two months after the internment was made active. This happened in February of 1942. So by this time, most everyone had been rounded up and were already living in the camps, citizen and enemy alien alike. Since homes were lost and businesses lost, those already in the camps may have had the option to leave, but doing so was a completely different ball of wax. They had nothing left to go back to, and in many cases, they would have been living in a very hostile environment should they choose to return to their homes.

Also - I would really like to see the sources for this article (and none are provided). As a historian, I like to check my facts.

The orig post was about German, Italian Americans being interned. They were not, and they were never allowed to live in the relocation camps. During relocation they were on their own, they had to make their own living arragements.
The article stated that two months after enemy alians were interned Americans were forced to relocate, they had not been rounded up.
No, no sources were attached to the article, have you found good sources for the internment of Americans?

 

[AmateisGal]

So this is really an issue between American CITIZENS and aliens, correct?

 

[LizzieMaine]

Keep in mind that while "enemy aliens" -- resident aliens native to Germany or Italy -- were interned as such, their spouses and children were often held in encampments along with them, and in many cases these people *were* American citizens. Technically these family members could have left whenever they wanted, but to call their internment "voluntary" on this basis is casuistry. They had nowhere else to go.

 

[V.C. Brunswick]

Problematic from a legalistic point of view was that many Japanese-Americans had dual citizenship and didn't even know it because the parents would duly register the births of their children with the Japanese Consulate thus making them Japanese nationals as well. A distinction which, of course, had a lot of potential for some antics with semantics.

This also made things problematic for any Nisei in American uniform who might have the misfortune of being captured by the Japanese because in the eyes of the Japanese government they would have been considered traitors, not POWs.

 

[sheeplady]

Also Americans not of Italian, German, or Japanese decent were forced from their land by the Fed Gov't, for the building of dams, and other military installations. They were forced to sell thier land at below market value. Whole communities some of which had lived on their land for generations were forced to give it up.

What the heck does this have to do with internment?

This is also not an artifact of WWII or of war in general; it has happened as long as we have had public works and continues to this day.

 

[Guttersnipe]

You should read the orig post I responded to. We are talking about internment not relocation. I have never stated that they were not relocated.

What exactly pray tell do you think those location centers were like? The answer is they were not nice. Even Japanese-Americans who were not required to live in interment camps were required to relocate away from their homes, which was pretty awful.

Also, due to the multi-generational nature of most Japanese-American households of the time, opting to not go to a interment camp mean the breakup of families. I personally know someone who grew up at a relocation center (her family lived in a converted horse stable). Her parents "decided" to to take the children because, since an elderly grandparent was a resident alien and one of the parents was duel citizen, not doing so would have meant the dissolution of their family unit. They essentially to abandon their family business, house, car, and most of their positions.

 

[Big Bertie]

The internment of aliens may seem an outrageous and extreme over-reaction by contemporary standards, but was entirely understandable given the experience in occupied Europe where fifth-columnists, collaborators and Quislings were a reality, and often an extension of subversive ethnic-nationalist sentiments among various minority groups who found themselves on the 'wrong' side of newly created borders after WWI. In the UK, German and Italian aliens were interned on the Isle of Man (some I believe were also sent to Canada*), along with certain British whose political views were deemed suspect - fascists mainly.

* In a cruel twist of fate, some died in passage when their ship was torpedoed by a German U-boat.

 

[HoosierDaddy]

My Father lived in San Diego designing aircraft when Pearl Harbor was bombed. It was quite a shock at the time for most Americans. No one new what was coming next. He told me about camoflague being set up along the coast..and the worry about attacks expanding into the mainland. So much so..that he purchased a handgun and survival gear that he kept at the factory in case they were attacked. He also talked of escaping into the mountains or desert if necessary. Fears of what was coming next. Finally..who would actually win the war/wars? Just what should we do to help insure it would be us? Perhaps many over reacted. However..it is easier to look back and criticize now. I'm not trying to say that anything was fair or even completely justified. However..I think that many today are more apt to jeopardize all our safety and security..and perhaps very exsistence to 'fairness' or 'correctness'. Maybe not so much if a more organized battle seemed nearer the doorstep...but I could be wrong.
HD

 

[AmateisGal]

There were some very active supporters of Nazi Germany and Imperial Japan within the United States who WERE spies - so I do think rounding those people up was an absolute necessity. I agree, though, that it's a lot easier to look back and criticize what happened. We didn't live it so we couldn't possibly know what it was really like. All we can do now is understand it and learn from it. What I hope, though, is that we do not forget it. That would be the worst possible outcome.

 

[Old Rogue]

My Father lived in San Diego designing aircraft when Pearl Harbor was bombed. It was quite a shock at the time for most Americans. No one new what was coming next. He told me about camoflague being set up along the coast..and the worry about attacks expanding into the mainland. So much so..that he purchased a handgun and survival gear that he kept at the factory in case they were attacked. He also talked of escaping into the mountains or desert if necessary. Fears of what was coming next. Finally..who would actually win the war/wars? Just what should we do to help insure it would be us? Perhaps many over reacted. However..it is easier to look back and criticize now. I'm not trying to say that anything was fair or even completely justified. However..I think that many today are more apt to jeopardize all our safety and security..and perhaps very exsistence to 'fairness' or 'correctness'. Maybe not so much if a more organized battle seemed nearer the doorstep...but I could be wrong.
HD

Good points HD. The benefits of hindsight and the knowledge of how WWII eventually turned out make it easy for us to stake out the moral high ground on this issue. I would never attempt to minimize the tragic impacts of internment on on Japanese-Americans, the vast majority of which were loyal citizens. But at that point in history the U.S. had been drawn into a world war against very powerful foes and the eventual outcome was very much in doubt. I suspect that the government knew that most of these people did not represent a threat, but had no reliable way to identify the very small minority who did. It's easy to think that we would have handled things differently, but if we believed our freedom and way of life were in mortal jeopardy we might find ourselves capable of things we cannot imagine.

 

[LizzieMaine]

Anyone thinking otherwise would benefit from a review of Usenet and message-board posts from the second and third weeks of September 2001.

 

[kiwilrdg]

No they did not, only enemy aliens were interned. japanese, German and Italian Americans were forced to relocate, only the Japanese were givin the option of living in camps, which they could leave at anytime and many did. the rest had to fend for themselves.

I guess the nice fellows with the guns forgot to explain that to a fellow I met once. He joined the Army so he could serve his country (in Europe only) and to send money to his parents so they could have money to supplement the food they were given in the camp. His parents were still forced (I guess he meant given the option) to stay in the camp.

 

[jamespowers]

I had a friend who went to USC before and during WWII. He had a professor with which he and several other students were doing research on canaries. After the war started they came to class and found it stripped to the walls. All of their research and mention of Professor Milton Metfessel was GONE.
He never knew what happened to him but just recently, after having related said story to a friend, we found out that he had been forced to relocate to the middle of the country and for him that meant Ohio. He went on to become well known for his work and never returned to the west coast.