ELMC Products

[Superfluous]

But, if I understood you correctly from other correspondence, you tried on a size 40, which was also too snug in the chest, and not a size 42, which you believe would be the correct size and which should be longer. Oui???

I tried on a 40 and a 44 (they did not have a 42). Gary said the 44 is the same length as a 42 long. However, the 44 was too short for my taste.

 

[HPA Rep]

I tried on a 40 and a 44 (they did not have a 42). Gary said the 44 is the same length as a 42 long. However, the 44 was too short for my taste.

Well, if that is so, then Gary may have been confused about his own product or he was speaking about the possibility of a jacket being on the negative side of "within tolerance," because not only is that incorrect based on every Californian I measured here, but the Eastman Leather tradition when grading patterns from one size to the next is for the sleeve and body lengths of a regular fitting to increase by 0.5" as the sizes increase, so a 44R would be 0.5" longer than a 42R. And the Eastman tradition in making a long fitting is for the long to always be 1" greater in both sleeve and body length as compared to its regular-size counterpart, so a 44R would 0.5" shorter than a 42L, which is to say a 42L is 0.5" longer in these two areas of measure than a 44R. This is the working concept applied by Eastman Leather, though allowing for the accepted "tolerance" of plus or minus 0.5" could readily translate to a 42L and a 44R being the same length, so maybe Gary was speaking in such terms.

Allowing for this accepted "tolerance" certainly can and sometimes does create jackets that would conform to what Gary stated, but I've found it very rare for this accepted "tolerance" to impact both length measures; the more typical experience when a jacket is minus 0.5" within tolerance is for only one of the measures to be as such and the other to be dead on spec.

 

[HPA Rep]

Sure. The measurements I quoted came from post #8 of this thread, which gave the dimensions of a Californian, in size 40, as given by EMC and quoted by zhz.

Thank you for the info. Do you know how long ago the measures were actually taken or how many jackets of that size were measured to derive them?

The measures coming from Eastman are usually perfumed by Rob Brace, sometimes using as little as one jacket to measure, and if an actual jacket doesn't exist, then there are times when the measures are deduced from the pattern used to make the size. Additionally, prior to the fall of 2014, the arm lengths were shorter and the measures you list may reflect the older lengths, but that wouldn't explain the shoulder width being so different or the chest, because these did not change in measure from what we received in the way of a sample order last summer or current production.

Allowing also for the differences in how one individual may measure vs. another and that I am very familiar with Rob Brace and measures he shared with me and that we have discussed in the past, I can say there have been times when Rob's measures proved incorrect after exchanges between us and after he re-examined what discrepancies I pointed out. I can also say with 100% certainty that the measures you attribute to Eastman Leather (and which I'm not suggesting did not come from Eastman Leather) do not correspond to any Californian in size 40 we have handled from the current production, all of which are longer in arm length, equal in body length, and wider in both chest and shoulder from the measures you listed.

My gut feeling is that the measures you were given were from the initial production of Californian jackets. Whether some amount of human error was also at hand in arriving at the shoulder and chest widths is not clear, as it's also possible the measures you list were taken from such early-production jacket(s) that the sample order we received in July 2014 reflected changes incorporated in the early stages of production and after the measures were logged by Eastman Leather.

I do know that if the sample order we took on had size 40R jackets measuring to what amounts to 21" in the chest width and a shoulder width that much less than 19”, I would have deemed these size 38s and I would have argued for at least 1.5” to be added to the arm measure and not the 1” that I actually championed.

Bottom line: No Californian jackets in size 40R we have purchased, measured, sold or have in stock have arm lengths as short as you listed, nor do they have shoulder widths and/or chest widths as narrow as you listed. I consider the measures you listed not applicable to current production of this style and unintentionally misleading. I also guarantee that no size 40R in our stock, if measured correctly and following the format we outline and illustrate on our website, will match in measure to what you were supplied with (except in body length).

As I stated previously, we will gladly measure any shirts, jackets, jeans and/or trousers for any serious customer who needs measure-specific confirmation.

 

[IXL]

As I stated previously, we will gladly measure any shirts, jackets, jeans and/or trousers for any serious customer who needs measure-specific confirmation.

Can't ask for much more than that. Thanks!!

 

[bretron]

May I suggest posting measurements for all of em. Probably cut down on the Q&A there's obvious interest in this jacket!

 

[HPA Rep]

May I suggest posting measurements for all of em. Probably cut down on the Q&A there's obvious interest in this jacket!

It's a fine idea, thanks. But the uphill part of doing so is that I've tried pasting our size chart here and the way the chart is formatted, it doesn't look good at all on here. I'd have to re-type the entire chart in some other format, which takes time not currently available. And I actually think it's best to drive traffic to our website for such data, where every style has its measures listed with accompanying text on fit and sizing tips.

 

[Deleted member 16736]

Charles, I'd like to repeat my request for you to post wear pictures of the Windward jacket (preferably in black), if it's not too much trouble. Thank you.

 

[HPA Rep]

Charles, I'd like to repeat my request for you to post wear pictures of the Windward jacket (preferably in black), if it's not too much trouble. Thank you.

You haven't been forgotten, Joel; both colors are on the list to be shot and uploaded here, as are the many other great items in this collection. Please keep your fingers crossed for the end of this week. Thank you for your keen interest!

 

[HPA Rep]

The jacket depicted is a Californian in American Walnut size 40R; all Californian jackets grade longer in length of sleeve and body as the sizes get larger, and they are also available in long fittings, which are 1" longer in sleeve and body length than their regular-fitting counterparts. I'm 5' 9" tall, chest 40", waist 30", shirt sleeve 33", weight 147 lbs., and my build is best described as lean and athletic.

This example in American Walnut has a chest measure that is a bit smaller than my personal jacket in black depicted previously; the black jacket measures within tolerance of spec. at 22.25” in chest width and this American Walnut example measures 21.5” in chest width, which is also within tolerance of spec. The smaller chest width was noticeable when I put this example on in comparison to my own jacket but it was still very wearable, though it couldn’t have been any smaller (nor would it have been within tolerance of spec. had it been).

We have Californians in stock from sizes 36 - 46 in both regular and long fittings and in all three color choices, as well as other ELMC jackets styles and shirts. You can see product details, detailed and larger images, fit tips, and product measurements on our website here:

https://www.historypreservation.com...ntage-style-half-belt-jacket-american-walnut/

 

[HPA Rep]

The jacket depicted is a Windward in black horsehide that is fully vegetable tanned, fully aniline dyed, and imported from some of the finest leather country in the world for vegetable-tanned horsehide – Italy. The Windward is a motorcycle jacket design from the 1940s as once produced by Montgomery Ward, so this is a dedicated reproduction and not fantasy. The jacket is fully lined, including the sleeves, with a beautiful, rayon acetate diamond quilting backed with an all-wool fiber filling of 3mm depth, so it’s quite warm, yet due to the natural fibers, it breathes to preclude overheating.

The overall design and cut is sensibly trim and flattering, allowing for layering of varying degrees depending on the size one may purchase. This example seen here is a size 40R and only a Buzz Rickson’s Mock-Twist Chambray Shirt is being worn under it with an ELMC tee shirt. All Windward jackets grade longer in length of sleeve and body as the sizes get larger; currently long fittings are not offered in this style.

I'm 5' 9" tall, chest 40", waist 30", shirt sleeve 33", weight 148 lbs., and my build is best described as lean and athletic.

Personally, I am very fond of the jacket, which is very comfortable, fits sleekly without bulk or excess, allows some medium-weight layering, and provides a good range of movement and reach, largely due to the underarm gussets.

The ELMC jacket line is produced in a different manner than the Eastman line of jackets, so there will be fewer productions in a year (we’re only promised two with the unpromised hope to add others to top off stock), so there will be absences of select colors and styles over the course of time, no doubt. We currently have Windwards in stock in both brown or black color choices, as well as other ELMC jackets styles and shirts. You can see product details, detailed and larger images, fit tips, and product measurements on our website here:

https://www.historypreservation.com...ndward-vintage-style-motorcycle-jacket-black/

 

[handymike]

Charles, that's a great looking jacket!
I love the old Windward designs, but I wish they didn't use elastic for the "snug fit" feature.

 

[HPA Rep]

Charles, that's a great looking jacket!
I love the old Windward designs, but I wish they didn't use elastic for the "snug fit" feature.

Thanks for the feedback. I'm curious if you wish to expand on your dislike of the elasticated side snuggers. There are vintage designs by Ward's and others that use this feature down at the jacket bottom in lieu of a knit waistband and I personally don't like the aesthetics of that look, but having this incorporated higher up and in a more subtle way and far smaller in size than on those vintage styles I'm thinking of doesn't bother me. And now having worn this design, I really appreciate how well they function in providing a varying fit that adapts to what you may be wearing under the jacket.

I don't think this design would look as good, personally, if it had some type of buckle adjuster with belt tab, but that's also why we have more than one flavor of ice cream.

 

[handymike]

I had it on a vintage Penny's/ Sportclad jacket, and found that because it was always tight that the top half of the jacket blouses out. I prefer my side adjusters to be let out a bit- something the elastic doesn't allow for. I guess if you have a jacket that fits perfect that it might not pose the issue I had.
Like I said, nice looking design.
Cheers.

 

[HPA Rep]

I had it on a vintage Penny's/ Sportclad jacket, and found that because it was always tight that the top half of the jacket blouses out. I prefer my side adjusters to be let out a bit- something the elastic doesn't allow for. I guess if you have a jacket that fits perfect that it might not pose the issue I had.
Like I said, nice looking design.
Cheers.

Thank you for sharing your experiences with the elastic side snuggers, HM. I can understand what you have described and wouldn't care for that type of look myself, but this ELMC Windward doesn't produce this result, or it doesn't do it on me. The fit is fairly close all the way to the jacket bottom on me, which I think the photos reflect, thus the type of blousing you mention is absent. I've seen some vintage designs that do what you described and it creates somewhat of "princess" look in the jacket, which may have been okay for some men, but definitely not this cowboy. :eeek:

 

[tblay]

Hi. Has the ELMC line been discontinued? It appears the website is no longer active...

 

[kojax]

good eveing it was up today. i know one thing you really could not order anything . i was looking at the new hilts a2 jacket the specs of the jacket does not come on it only shows the jacket they need to look at there website

 

[tblay]

good eveing it was up today. i know one thing you really could not order anything . i was looking at the new hilts a2 jacket the specs of the jacket does not come on it only shows the jacket they need to look at there website

Weird. Neither eastmanleather.com nor elmc.co are functioning right now. Get the equivalent of a 404 error when I try to go to either url.

 

[ProteinNerd]

While overall I love the Californian I've always felt the hand warmer pockets and the half belt are a touch high and look a little out of proportion. Is this just me?

 

[HPA Rep]

While overall I love the Californian I've always felt the hand warmer pockets and the half belt are a touch high and look a little out of proportion. Is this just me?

You're the first I've heard mention this, but if it bothers you, then it bothers you. I love the two I own and the style is close to being as popular for us as Eastman A-2's.

 

[HPA Rep]

Hi. Has the ELMC line been discontinued? It appears the website is no longer active...

Not at all. I've seen this issue for both of Eastman's websites, so I'm thinking they are hosted by the same source and there is some serious issue at hand.

We stock a good deal of the ELMC items, so you may find what you wish to see on our website.