Marc Chevalier
Gone Home
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- 18,192
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- Los Feliz, Los Angeles, California
This black beauty went for a song: http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/VINTAGE-T...4?pt=Men_s_Accessories_UK&hash=item2a126628e8
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Ebay Hats: Victories, Defeats, Gripes & Items of Interest
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I'll Lock Up
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- 5,927
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- Sydney Australia
Did anyone here buy that Italian 1930s Leghorn straw from rilico?
carouselvic
I'll Lock Up
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- 4,985
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- Kansas
Yes
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HatsEnough
Banned
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- 1,142
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- Cincinnati, Ohio
Well, I took a chance on this Stetson western. I say took a chance because the auction photos were horrible.
It looks like it has either a bound edge or a sewn edge. Does it look that way to any of you folks?
Here is the liner...
I jumped on this not because I want a western (I generally don't) but because I have not one Nutria hat in my collection. This one says "Nutria Quality" on the liner.
It is a bit small for me at 6-7/8, but most of the time I can give a 6-7/8 just enough stretch to fit my size 7 noggin.
Now… someone tell me what quality a "nutria quality" is? Was it worth the $40 I paid?
It looks like it has either a bound edge or a sewn edge. Does it look that way to any of you folks?
Here is the liner...
I jumped on this not because I want a western (I generally don't) but because I have not one Nutria hat in my collection. This one says "Nutria Quality" on the liner.
It is a bit small for me at 6-7/8, but most of the time I can give a 6-7/8 just enough stretch to fit my size 7 noggin.
Now… someone tell me what quality a "nutria quality" is? Was it worth the $40 I paid?
Only you can determine that.
HatsEnough
Banned
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- 1,142
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- Cincinnati, Ohio
That sure as heck isn't completely true! If I paid $400 for it, even if I was happy with it, it sure as heck would have been a foolish buy!
HatsEnough
Banned
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- 1,142
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- Cincinnati, Ohio
First of all, Lefty, I appreciate your pointing me to the nutria thread. There is some great stuff there. It will help me when my hat arrives.
But, no, I do not believe that "the truth lies somewhere in between" on everything. That sort of relativism makes our lives pointless and void of meaning. It certainly makes trying to learn about hats a waste of time. If the "truth" always lies in between then there is absolutely no reason to bother trying to figure out if the hats we are buying are worth anything at all.
Tango Yankee
Call Me a Cab
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- 2,433
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- Lucasville, OH
Actually, I believe that any hat (or anything else, for that matter) at any particular point in time is worth exactly what someone is willing to pay for it at that particular point of time, no more, no less. Along those lines I used to think that meant that the winning bid at the end of the auction was what that hat was worth right then, but I realized while typing this I was wrong. If the particular point of time happens to be the end time of an auction the hat may actually be worth considerably more to the winning bidder than the winning bid--the winner may have actually bid much more but had no competition past the winning bid. However, the winning bid was what the market said that hat was worth at that particular point of time.
And that's getting way too philosophical for a Monday night.
On another note, that Turf Club arrived today. I'll have to clean it up a bit, but the color of the auction photos was pretty accurate. The seller said black, but it's more like a very dark blue/green. I'll need to see it in the light. It's also sans liner as the seller said, but there is evidence of a tip sticker in the crown. The hat is very, very light and the felt thin and pliable. More to come, perhaps this weekend.
Cheers,
Tom
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HatsEnough
Banned
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- 1,142
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- Cincinnati, Ohio
You are describing monetary worth, not intrinsic worth. The two are not necessarily one and the same.
Tango Yankee
Call Me a Cab
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- Lucasville, OH
Didn't say they are (assuming you are referring to intrinsic value as it relates philosophically) but you were the one that tied money to it by asking if a hat was worth the $40 you paid and by saying that even if you were happy with a hat, paying $400 would be a foolish buy. You also said challenged Zetwal's assertion that only you could answer the question as to whether the hat was worth the $40, a clear reference to the philosophical side of the hat's intrinsic value to you but you turned it towards the financial side of value in your reply to him. Perhaps it would be a foolish buy if your situation meant that buying a hat for $400 meant the rent didn't get paid, but if you have the money and you like the hat and you are willing to pay $400 for it, that's your decision. Others may say it's a foolish buy, but it wasn't their purchase or their money so what they say doesn't count.
Regards,
Tom
Added: Of course, if you bought the hat and spent $400 for it and you think it was a foolish buy, then it was a foolish buy! As Zetwal said, it's up to you! Cheers!
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HatsEnough
Banned
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- 1,142
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- Cincinnati, Ohio
Good points, Tango. But, a point in reply. In the context of my question, I was not assessing the mere market value of the hat as you were in your post. I was assessing how you all as experts evaluate the hat.
Let's put it this way, many people today are willing to pay hundreds of dollars for modern factory fedoras. They do this because they know no experts to tell them how good the hat is or isn't. Hat stores and knowledgeable hat dealers are long gone for the most part. Without guidance, people pay the tall cash because they "like" it. The piece is "worth" what people will pay for it in that sense. But being experts, you know when something is not really worth what the market is currently bearing because you have made a better assessment of the manufacturing, the quality, and the makers.
So, just because people pay large amounts for something does not mean it is a worthy purchase and just because most people don't understand what "quality" means in a hat does not mean that the prices being paid are actually worth it.
And that brings us to why I came here to ask the question in the first place. You guys are the experts! You guys know what level of quality is represented by the hat in question. And therefore, I ask because I am basing my opinion of the hat on the many years of expertise offered by the lounge. I may still "like" the hat even if I paid too much for it. But to truly know what the prevailing opinion from a board full of experts helps me make the determination on how to move forward if I need to learn a "lesson" from the purchase.
Hence, the opinions of experts backed up by their research and information helps determine the intrinsic value of the hat, not merely a market value. I don't care what the average guy on the street says about the purchase. I care if the experts here think it was an OK buy. Why? Because their opinion is informed.
In the end the $40 is just the marker to tell what the quality is. And your points, while certainly logical, still tend toward a sort of nihilist viewpoint.
I love these philosophical discussions.
Let's put it this way, many people today are willing to pay hundreds of dollars for modern factory fedoras. They do this because they know no experts to tell them how good the hat is or isn't. Hat stores and knowledgeable hat dealers are long gone for the most part. Without guidance, people pay the tall cash because they "like" it. The piece is "worth" what people will pay for it in that sense. But being experts, you know when something is not really worth what the market is currently bearing because you have made a better assessment of the manufacturing, the quality, and the makers.
So, just because people pay large amounts for something does not mean it is a worthy purchase and just because most people don't understand what "quality" means in a hat does not mean that the prices being paid are actually worth it.
And that brings us to why I came here to ask the question in the first place. You guys are the experts! You guys know what level of quality is represented by the hat in question. And therefore, I ask because I am basing my opinion of the hat on the many years of expertise offered by the lounge. I may still "like" the hat even if I paid too much for it. But to truly know what the prevailing opinion from a board full of experts helps me make the determination on how to move forward if I need to learn a "lesson" from the purchase.
Hence, the opinions of experts backed up by their research and information helps determine the intrinsic value of the hat, not merely a market value. I don't care what the average guy on the street says about the purchase. I care if the experts here think it was an OK buy. Why? Because their opinion is informed.
In the end the $40 is just the marker to tell what the quality is. And your points, while certainly logical, still tend toward a sort of nihilist viewpoint.
I love these philosophical discussions.
Saint-Just
One of the Regulars
- Messages
- 196
- Location
- Ashford, Kent - UK
Well I am certainly not an expert. I am one of many who come to drink at the fountain of knowledge that people here will so generously share.
And I haven't been here long, so my thirst is far from quenched. But from what I have seen and read here HE you're an expert yourself in buying hats from ebay.
Now sometimes you can get a great hat for $40 because it was accidentally misrepresented, and other hawks from here did not spot it. Sometimes (probably more often), you can get a great hat because the other ebay hawks wear a larger size than your lucky 7.
But other than that, chances are that a $40 is worth somewhere around $40... On the other hand, $40 will buy you a wool hat, and for that price you got a fur felt. Which brings us back to Lefty's "the truth is in between"
And I haven't been here long, so my thirst is far from quenched. But from what I have seen and read here HE you're an expert yourself in buying hats from ebay.
Now sometimes you can get a great hat for $40 because it was accidentally misrepresented, and other hawks from here did not spot it. Sometimes (probably more often), you can get a great hat because the other ebay hawks wear a larger size than your lucky 7.
But other than that, chances are that a $40 is worth somewhere around $40... On the other hand, $40 will buy you a wool hat, and for that price you got a fur felt. Which brings us back to Lefty's "the truth is in between"
red71veloce
Familiar Face
- Messages
- 79
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- Oklahoma
It's a forty dollar hat.........
T
T
Tango Yankee
Call Me a Cab
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- Lucasville, OH
If you're talking about the original price of a hat, then yes, the price listed would be an indicator of the quality of a hat in relation to the other hats in a hat company's lineup.
I agree that for myself and many here most current production hats are not "worth" the prices they sell for when better-made and, about as important, better-styled vintage hats are still available at prices we can afford. But that still means that a hat's worth tends to be a personal decision based on many influences and like most things can be influenced by current "fads". This makes the value of a hat a moving target. For instance a few years ago Whippets, Open Roads and Stratoliners were praised as wonderful examples of Stetson hats, with prices eventually going over $300 and people agreeing that was a good price on a vintage hat that cannot be reproduced today. Lately there are a lot of naysayers who sneer at them as being ordinary, basic hats at the bottom of the quality ladder of the times and marvel at how much people are willing to spend on them. So the worth of a hat is a moving target, even among the "experts" here.
Others won't wear a vintage hat at all, and so buy new--either factory made or custom, with some stating they wouldn't spend the amount of money that a custom commands on a vintage hat when you can have new for the same price.
So was the hat in question worth a $40 gamble? I'd say it was, based upon the ballpark figures we see similar hats going for. Well-presented nutria hats seem to do well, in part because they are somewhat rare. But it wasn't worth the cost of shipping if you get no pleasure out of it.
But let's go back to the comment that "the truth lies somewhere in between" is the sort of thing that makes our lives pointless and void of meaning, or makes trying to learn about hats a waste of time. I disagree. As you learn about the differences in hats (and while reading the comments of some of the very informed people here is very helpful, handling and examining hats with a critical eye is the best way to do so) you will form your own opinions as to the worth of different hats. That worth may be dollar-related in your mind, it may not.
It's all very subjective, isn't it?
Cheers,
Tom
PS Perhaps the question shouldn't have been "Was this hat worth $40" but instead "Is this a well-made, quality hat?" That may have generated the type of response you were looking for instead of this discussion, which, by the way, would be better over a couple of quality beers or other libations (and now we can go on to "what makes a six-pack of beer worth a premium price over other six-packs of beer?" discussion!)
I agree that for myself and many here most current production hats are not "worth" the prices they sell for when better-made and, about as important, better-styled vintage hats are still available at prices we can afford. But that still means that a hat's worth tends to be a personal decision based on many influences and like most things can be influenced by current "fads". This makes the value of a hat a moving target. For instance a few years ago Whippets, Open Roads and Stratoliners were praised as wonderful examples of Stetson hats, with prices eventually going over $300 and people agreeing that was a good price on a vintage hat that cannot be reproduced today. Lately there are a lot of naysayers who sneer at them as being ordinary, basic hats at the bottom of the quality ladder of the times and marvel at how much people are willing to spend on them. So the worth of a hat is a moving target, even among the "experts" here.
Others won't wear a vintage hat at all, and so buy new--either factory made or custom, with some stating they wouldn't spend the amount of money that a custom commands on a vintage hat when you can have new for the same price.
So was the hat in question worth a $40 gamble? I'd say it was, based upon the ballpark figures we see similar hats going for. Well-presented nutria hats seem to do well, in part because they are somewhat rare. But it wasn't worth the cost of shipping if you get no pleasure out of it.
But let's go back to the comment that "the truth lies somewhere in between" is the sort of thing that makes our lives pointless and void of meaning, or makes trying to learn about hats a waste of time. I disagree. As you learn about the differences in hats (and while reading the comments of some of the very informed people here is very helpful, handling and examining hats with a critical eye is the best way to do so) you will form your own opinions as to the worth of different hats. That worth may be dollar-related in your mind, it may not.
It's all very subjective, isn't it?
Cheers,
Tom
PS Perhaps the question shouldn't have been "Was this hat worth $40" but instead "Is this a well-made, quality hat?" That may have generated the type of response you were looking for instead of this discussion, which, by the way, would be better over a couple of quality beers or other libations (and now we can go on to "what makes a six-pack of beer worth a premium price over other six-packs of beer?" discussion!)
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- Messages
- 10,524
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- DnD Ranch, Cherokee County, GA
IMHO, when I price a hat based on what I am willing to pay for it, I look at a couple of factors. The first is how close is the particular specimen to "pristine" = how it looked coming right out of the box when it was new. The other is whether or not I can get one reproduced today to replace it. This last one makes some vintage hats irreplaceable but does that mean they are "priceless"? Not to me. I then go to a "suitable" replacement alternative. Bottom line, is what would a "close enough" custom cost me? Some folks put value into the rarity of the model, see Whippet & Stratoliner.
A nutria hat such as yours would be costly to reproduce but then that one is far from pristine. A 100% nutria body that I'd have to send off to restoration would be worth $40 to me.
A nutria hat such as yours would be costly to reproduce but then that one is far from pristine. A 100% nutria body that I'd have to send off to restoration would be worth $40 to me.
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The Wiser Hatter
I'll Lock Up
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- 4,765
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- Louisville, Ky
Some one who thinks this is from the 1860's-1900's is an crazy this is a report to eBay listing.
HatsEnough
Banned
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- 1,142
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- Cincinnati, Ohio
I agree. There is a seller that is a completely uneducated moron on almost every level.