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Ebay Hats: Victories, Defeats, Gripes & Items of Interest

Messages
19,001
Location
Central California
Well, we've already done three. I don't know why it wouldn't work with four. I will show the latest in the New Hats thread today.

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I can understand the sizing up and losing brim width, but sizing down has me puzzled. How Ignacio is going to take your Courtney in 7 3/4 and size it down to 7 1/4 fascinates me. Are you sure dark magic isn’t involved?


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drmaxtejeda

I'll Lock Up
Messages
8,352
Location
Mexico City
I can understand the sizing up and losing brim width, but sizing down has me puzzled. How Ignacio is going to take your Courtney in 7 3/4 and size it down to 7 1/4 fascinates me. Are you sure dark magic isn’t involved?


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He has already sized down several hats, and they fit very well. I know it is hard to believe, because he has sized down hats that are supposed to be 100 per cent beaver, like my Stetson One Hundred below, that was a 7 5/8, but he says he shrinks them. No wrinkles, nothing.

https://rover.ebay.com/rover/0/0/0?mpre=https://www.ebay.com/ulk/itm/323349966656
725fdb298f86cf629d354f53a05f8b4d.jpg
f1c5be69d86be4be1506b7589b10f99c.jpg
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Messages
19,001
Location
Central California
He has already sized down several hats, and they fit very well. I know it is hard to believe, because he has sized down hats that are supposed to be 100 per cent beaver, like my Stetson One Hundred below, that was a 7 5/8, but he says he shrinks them. No wrinkles, nothing.

https://rover.ebay.com/rover/0/0/0?mpre=https://www.ebay.com/ulk/itm/323349966656
725fdb298f86cf629d354f53a05f8b4d.jpg
f1c5be69d86be4be1506b7589b10f99c.jpg
b9938bbc1e54d17d0c555967d8702a5c.jpg


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Assuming the laws of physics are not being commuted, does the felt get thicker or denser? Where does the extra felt go? Are microscopic people involved? Does the process require a full moon?


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drmaxtejeda

I'll Lock Up
Messages
8,352
Location
Mexico City
Assuming the laws of physics are not being commuted, does the felt get thicker or denser? Where does the extra felt go? Are microscopic people involved? Does the process require a full moon?


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He takes the sweat, ribbon, and liner off. He puts a hot iron with the hot surface pointing upwards. He wets a rag and puts it over the iron, and puts the inside of the crown over it, so that the steam from the hot rag impregnates the felt. He puts the crown over a smaller sized block, and rubs the hot felt vigorously over it with his hands. He wets the rag again, puts it over the felt that is placed over the block, and irons the rag over the felt. He can either make the crown taller, by putting it over a longer block, or the brim wider, by putting it over a shorter one. He has what looks like a curtain drawing cord tied over where he wants the break to be.
If he is going down more sizes, he repeats the same procedure over a smaller block, until he is done.
When he downsized my first Stetson One Hundred I asked him to give me a wider brim, because I felt the brim was too short on it, so he did that, and if you look closely at the pictures above you will notice it is wider. Afterwards I noticed that there was a mark on the brim where the previous turn on the felt used to be (picture below), so now I ask him to make the crown taller instead.
When he upsizes, he says he can stretch or thin the felt a little, so that I will loose a little less brim width. He says you have to know how much to do it, or you could end up with a ruined felt.
b4c677f3d7baa7ca094569751844e352.jpg
5c83ba4e9036e70c8c9b5c5713e7537a.jpg


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Messages
19,001
Location
Central California
He takes the sweat, ribbon, and liner off. He puts a hot iron with the hot surface pointing upwards. He wets a rag and puts it over the iron, and puts the inside of the crown over it, so that the steam from the hot rag impregnates the felt. He puts the crown over a smaller sized block, and rubs the hot felt vigorously over it with his hands. He wets the rag again, puts it over the felt that is placed over the block, and irons the rag over the felt. He can either make the crown taller, by putting it over a longer block, or the brim wider, by putting it over a shorter one. He has what looks like a curtain drawing cord tied over where he wants the break to be.
If he is going down more sizes, he repeats the same procedure over a smaller block, until he is done.
When he downsized my first Stetson One Hundred I asked him to give me a wider brim, because I felt the brim was too short on it, so he did that, and if you look closely at the pictures above you will notice it is wider. Afterwards I noticed that there was a mark on the brim where the previous turn on the felt used to be (picture below), so now I ask him to make the crown taller instead.
When he upsizes, he says he can stretch or thin the felt a little, so that I will loose a little less brim width. He says you have to know how much to do it, or you could end up with a ruined felt.
b4c677f3d7baa7ca094569751844e352.jpg
5c83ba4e9036e70c8c9b5c5713e7537a.jpg


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Thank you for this information. It doesn’t seem possible, but the proof is in the pudding. So...your 7 3/4 hat will end up with a 7” open crown! ;)

How much does he charge to shrink a hat? I hope Ignacio has an apprentice(s) who he’s passing all these skills and knowledge down to.


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drmaxtejeda

I'll Lock Up
Messages
8,352
Location
Mexico City
Thank you for this information. It doesn’t seem possible, but the proof is in the pudding. So...your 7 3/4 hat will end up with a 7” open crown! ;)

How much does he charge to shrink a hat? I hope Ignacio has an apprentice(s) who he’s passing all these skills and knowledge down to.


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No, not so much taller, because he says that the felt shrinks, too. He could also distribute the excess between the crown and the brim.
After he is done with the reblocking, he carefully trims the sweatband down to size, or adds another piece to it, as the case may be. I don't remember if he conforms the hat before or after he sews the sweat on... I think he does it afterwards, because the inner perimeter was already established, and he fixates the shape with his hot rag.
If the sweat is reedless, he sews it in a sewing machine he has upstairs, so I can't see him do it.
He says he knows how to operate the old machines that could sew the sweat on without going all the way through the felt, because his father used to have one, but he doesn't , so he just sews it with the string going all the way through, and covers the string with the ribbon. He says he has looked around for one of the old sewing machines, that they used to sew with two different strings at the same time, and that he can't find one.

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AbbaDatDeHat

I'll Lock Up
Messages
8,788
He takes the sweat, ribbon, and liner off. He puts a hot iron with the hot surface pointing upwards. He wets a rag and puts it over the iron, and puts the inside of the crown over it, so that the steam from the hot rag impregnates the felt. He puts the crown over a smaller sized block, and rubs the hot felt vigorously over it with his hands. He wets the rag again, puts it over the felt that is placed over the block, and irons the rag over the felt. He can either make the crown taller, by putting it over a longer block, or the brim wider, by putting it over a shorter one. He has what looks like a curtain drawing cord tied over where he wants the break to be.
If he is going down more sizes, he repeats the same procedure over a smaller block, until he is done.
When he downsized my first Stetson One Hundred I asked him to give me a wider brim, because I felt the brim was too short on it, so he did that, and if you look closely at the pictures above you will notice it is wider. Afterwards I noticed that there was a mark on the brim where the previous turn on the felt used to be (picture below), so now I ask him to make the crown taller instead.
When he upsizes, he says he can stretch or thin the felt a little, so that I will loose a little less brim width. He says you have to know how much to do it, or you could end up with a ruined felt.
b4c677f3d7baa7ca094569751844e352.jpg
5c83ba4e9036e70c8c9b5c5713e7537a.jpg


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Thank you Max for the detailed tutorial on Iggy’s technique. I now can fathom how it’s done. I really wondered about it when you said he doesn’t have a steamer. The iron and wet towel is a neat trick. You are so fortunate to have found him, and him you. The “Fortunate Ones” to be sure.
Thanks
B
Ps: does he use a blow dryer to aid in shrinking a somewhat wet hat during staged blocking??
 

drmaxtejeda

I'll Lock Up
Messages
8,352
Location
Mexico City
He charges me $800 pesos (about 40 dollars) for the whole thing, whether he upsizes or downsizes, and I am sure he charges me more than he charges other people, because I felt guilty about bargaining with him when we started, and because he can tell that I don't mind and I am not as poor as his regular clients are.

He doesn't have an apprentice. None of his kids (15 of them) care to learn, because they all have professional careers.
Since most of the hats I buy on ebay are smaller-sized hats, and they are cheaper than the ones that are my size, I still come out ahead, and with a hat that is conformed to my head.
My new VS, for instance, could not fit better if Art himself would have sent me one of his conformers and made the hat for me himself.

If I want the hat cleaned in percloro etileno (ethylene perchloride?), which is way better than white gas, he charges me $10 dollars extra, but I only started asking him to do that with the last five or six hats, once I got tired of cleaning them myself in white gas, which stinks up the whole house (I do it in the garage, but still), and I used to spend more on the white gas anyway.

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drmaxtejeda

I'll Lock Up
Messages
8,352
Location
Mexico City
Thank you Max for the detailed tutorial on Iggy’s technique. I now can fathom how it’s done. I really wondered about it when you said he doesn’t have a steamer. The iron and wet towel is a neat trick. You are so fortunate to have found him, and him you. The “Fortunate Ones” to be sure.
Thanks
B
Ps: does he use a blow dryer to aid in shrinking a somewhat wet hat during staged blocking??
No. He just lets them dry while he is doing more of my hats, and comes back to the first one while those are drying. I think he wouldn't approve of using a dryer, because they wouldn't dry evenly and the felt might warp, but I am not sure.


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TheOldFashioned

Call Me a Cab
Messages
2,148
Location
The Great Lakes
Scored this Stetson Select bowler a couple weeks ago. Pics are from the listing as I am still researching this piece:

View attachment 143015 View attachment 143016 View attachment 143017

Wasn't particularly looking for a bowler at the time, but then I saw the retailer. I live in the greater South Bend area, and many times I have walked by that address. (The original building has unfortunately long since been demolished, and is now retail shops on the street level and a parking garage above. That particular address is now a diner. Haven't tried the food, but will now make it a point to go.)

Pretty sure this is from late 20s based on what I've read on several threads on FL. This also matches Spiro ads I found from the same time period advertising Stetson hats. (Earlier ads mention being a Knox retailer.) One of those serendipitous moments when I found out I won. To think this hat has come around full circle after ~90 years is fascinating to me.

Suffice to say, this hat makes me smile. As a bonus, the wife likes it.
Very nice old Derby (its American, so...Derby), with a great historical tie to your locale. You are already on track with your research. Sometimes the style of store logo can be a clue to dating. Have you checked under the sweat band (carefully) for manufacturer tags? There is a dedicated threat around here somewhere about Stetson tag dating. Looks like an early one for sure. Welcome to the Fray!

@Redfokker Ask and ye shall receive:

IMG_20181104_212316733.jpg
(Not under sweatband)

IMG_20181104_211546831.jpg IMG_20181104_211652135.jpg IMG_20181104_211838608.jpg IMG_20181104_211615884.jpg

I've combed through several threads but haven't been able to pin down a date for sure. I'm quite confident it's mid-30s at the latest given the three block factory tag combined with orange reorder tag, but leaning towards 20s since the bow is frayed and there also is a bow name/number stamped (illegibly shown in 4th picture).

One area where some bit of whimsy turned out to be false after this weekend's research deals with the previous owner, whose initials "SS" appear on the sweatband. Samuel Spiro, proprietor of Sam'l Spiro & Co, was not himself the previous owner, as he suddenly died in 1918 after a round of golf.

Be careful out on the links @drmaxtejeda !
 

drmaxtejeda

I'll Lock Up
Messages
8,352
Location
Mexico City
@Redfokker Ask and ye shall receive:

View attachment 143365
(Not under sweatband)

View attachment 143366 View attachment 143367 View attachment 143368 View attachment 143369

I've combed through several threads but haven't been able to pin down a date for sure. I'm quite confident it's mid-30s at the latest given the three block factory tag combined with orange reorder tag, but leaning towards 20s since the bow is frayed and there also is a bow name/number stamped (illegibly shown in 4th picture).

One area where some bit of whimsy turned out to be false after this weekend's research deals with the previous owner, whose initials "SS" appear on the sweatband. Samuel Spiro, proprietor of Sam'l Spiro & Co, was not himself the previous owner, as he suddenly died in 1918 after a round of golf.

Be careful out on the links @drmaxtejeda !
Whatta way to go!

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Messages
12,384
Location
Albany Oregon
@Redfokker Ask and ye shall receive:

View attachment 143365
(Not under sweatband)

View attachment 143366 View attachment 143367 View attachment 143368 View attachment 143369

I've combed through several threads but haven't been able to pin down a date for sure. I'm quite confident it's mid-30s at the latest given the three block factory tag combined with orange reorder tag, but leaning towards 20s since the bow is frayed and there also is a bow name/number stamped (illegibly shown in 4th picture).

One area where some bit of whimsy turned out to be false after this weekend's research deals with the previous owner, whose initials "SS" appear on the sweatband. Samuel Spiro, proprietor of Sam'l Spiro & Co, was not himself the previous owner, as he suddenly died in 1918 after a round of golf.

Be careful out on the links @drmaxtejeda !
Sure looks 1920s! There is also a thread collecting the lot numbers from these old Stetsons. This one deserves a place there too.
 

Just Daniel

One Too Many
Messages
1,451
We should make a thread for his techniques.


He charges me $800 pesos (about 40 dollars) for the whole thing, whether he upsizes or downsizes, and I am sure he charges me more than he charges other people, because I felt guilty about bargaining with him when we started, and because he can tell that I don't mind and I am not as poor as his regular clients are.

He doesn't have an apprentice. None of his kids (15 of them) care to learn, because they all have professional careers.
Since most of the hats I buy on ebay are smaller-sized hats, and they are cheaper than the ones that are my size, I still come out ahead, and with a hat that is conformed to my head.
My new VS, for instance, could not fit better if Art himself would have sent me one of his conformers and made the hat for me himself.

If I want the hat cleaned in percloro etileno (ethylene perchloride?), which is way better than white gas, he charges me $10 dollars extra, but I only started asking him to do that with the last five or six hats, once I got tired of cleaning them myself in white gas, which stinks up the whole house (I do it in the garage, but still), and I used to spend more on the white gas anyway.

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Steinbockhase

Practically Family
Messages
514
Location
Munich, Bavaria, Germany
Messages
15,061
Location
Buffalo, NY
Stetson Sport-Lite. I had never seen a heathered Stetson before. It seems pretty old, but pristine.
7fd2187e13691b22da755e90f6688269.jpg
c86de8fe84357316113a83230b1e4e26.jpg
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0760b72976142c73c76eb26c1d483e69.jpg
bb34276947eedd030ea1ea3ab8088020.jpg

Yep... that is a good one. The seller's estimate of age is spot on. Riverside Men's Shop was a Buffalo staple that closed only recently.

Clarence is a town just to our east... the heart of the flea market world in Western NY. They rarely have anything interesting in older hats. You done good with this one.
 

drmaxtejeda

I'll Lock Up
Messages
8,352
Location
Mexico City
Yep... that is a good one. The seller's estimate of age is spot on. Riverside Men's Shop was a Buffalo staple that closed only recently.

Clarence is a town just to our east... the heart of the flea market world in Western NY. They rarely have anything interesting in older hats. You done good with this one.
Thank you, Alan!

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