Crofut & Knapp Tales

[Brad Bowers]

Most Knapp-Felt hats Derbies and top hats I've seen from 1900-1915 were advertised as Argentine Nutria or Clear Argentine Nutria.

Brad

 

[Joshbru3]

Most Knapp-Felt hats Derbies and top hats I've seen from 1900-1915 were advertised as Argentine Nutria or Clear Argentine Nutria.

Brad

So the Nutria used on these C & K top hats is not just in the brim, the material on the crown is a longhair Nutria? That was fairly uncommon wasn't it? I always thought that since the 1850's, Top Hats stopped using beaver in favor of a "longhair" Silk because the beaver population in America was decreased tremendously. So C & K used nutria instead of that "longhair" silk?

 

[Lefty]

WHOA!!!!! That topper is just purely incredible!! The condition is unbelievable, and the craftsmanship is top notch all the way. You wear the hat extremely well, Alan. Bravo!!! :eusa_clap:eusa_clap:eusa_clap:eusa_clap:eusa_clap:eusa_clap:eusa_clap:eusa_clap

This one had the most exclamation points and clappy fellas, so I'll +1 this.
Great hat and story.

 

[alanfgag]

Thanks Lefty.

I wish I could post the formal coat and tails too... complete with two pair of pants, vest, tie, suspenders... a little sad that I missed out on that.

 

[Brad Bowers]

So the Nutria used on these C & K top hats is not just in the brim, the material on the crown is a longhair Nutria? That was fairly uncommon wasn't it? I always thought that since the 1850's, Top Hats stopped using beaver in favor of a "longhair" Silk because the beaver population in America was decreased tremendously. So C & K used nutria instead of that "longhair" silk?

It's an assumption that they are indeed using Nutria for the fur content instead of silk plush, but I think it's a safe assumption. I'm guessing Nutria was a more cost-effective alternative, at least for C&K.

Beaver were trapped nearly to extinction in North America by 1830, and thus higher prices might have helped along the switch to silk, but it was really the fickleness of European fashion that spurred the change. Silk became far more desirable in a hat to the public, and with the ability to efficiently create the hatter's plush out of it, the fashion took off. It was that change in fashion that prevented the complete extinction of the beaver in North America. The "beaver bubble" of inflated prices burst around 1830 with the new interest in silk, and the trapping trade in the U.S. died out. Most "mountain men" found other lines of work around the American West, or moved back east.

Brad

 

[Garrett]

Alan, you wear those formal hats very well. That makes a C&K Derby and Top Hat for you. If only you had Josh's Homburg the C&K formal trio would be complete

 

[alanfgag]

Yes... I will have to talk with Josh about that one!

To add to Brad's post, the construction appears to be typical of the era, with a shellacked fabric shell over which a skin of fur material is applied.Very little of the body of the hat shows between the end of the lining (which appears to be ironed to the body) and the stitching of the sweatband and although the sweat is still supple, I haven't been tempted to bend it back for a closer look. In comparing this hat to my other plush top hat(a very nice private label for B. Altman) I have to say the feel is quite similar. Clearly the aesthetic in force at this point was driven by the look of silk plush and C&K intended to preserve this look and feel while adding the luxury of real fur. Feeling it, my wife was confident that the material on the C&K hat was fur.

cheers,
Alan

 

[cookie]

I've never before heard of "Argentine" nutria! Fascinating!

Nutria came from the Argentine to the Louisiana Delta like cane toads came from Hawaii to Australia...nuff said.

 

[Joshbru3]

It's an assumption that they are indeed using Nutria for the fur content instead of silk plush, but I think it's a safe assumption. I'm guessing Nutria was a more cost-effective alternative, at least for C&K.

Beaver were trapped nearly to extinction in North America by 1830, and thus higher prices might have helped along the switch to silk, but it was really the fickleness of European fashion that spurred the change. Silk became far more desirable in a hat to the public, and with the ability to efficiently create the hatter's plush out of it, the fashion took off. It was that change in fashion that prevented the complete extinction of the beaver in North America. The "beaver bubble" of inflated prices burst around 1830 with the new interest in silk, and the trapping trade in the U.S. died out. Most "mountain men" found other lines of work around the American West, or moved back east.

Brad

Thanks for clearing that up for me, Brad! I love the fact that C & K used long hair Nutria instead of plush silk. Its a homage to the history of top hats when animal fur was still being used and not silk. I would be very interested as to the differences in nap and shine these two materials have.

 

[buler]

Crofut Knapp bill 1876

Bill to ? Bros, San Francisco. The condition of the paper is amazing. It has such a different feel. Tried to make out the model names as best as I could. Address was 495 Broome St, then changed to 96 Spring.

B

Model names as I see them:

Antietam ?
Pensacola
Alabama
Montana ?
Ventura
Vermont
California
De Soto
Lohingren ?
Columbus
Snowflake
Industry
Wadsworth
Loyalty
Wagner
Dieck
Conservation
Centennial
Lotta
Jovellar
Nevada
Kansas
Moulbrie ?
Anita

 

[alanfgag]

What a beautiful document... thanks for posting.

 

[Joshbru3]

Awesome, Bill!!!! :eusa_clap:eusa_clap:eusa_clap

 

[delectans]

C & K Derby, Special Quality

Submitting my humble chapter to the Crofut & Knapp Tales, a derby possibly dating to 1906 or earlier. Felt is of Summer weight and somewhat flexible, with a high, 5-1/2"+, rounded crown accentuated by a narrower ribbon. Quality trimmings all around, with a soft and supple sweatband, making for a very comfortable fit.


Crown: 5-1/2" as indicated by the tag, but closer to 6" as I measure.
Ribbon: 15/16".
Brim: 1-15/16" fore and aft.
Sweatband: 2".

 

[Aureliano]

Gorgeous, Al!

 

[alanfgag]

Wonderful to find such a great old example in your size, AL... congratulations. Do you have particular clues for the age estimate? The personalization imprinting is extraordinary... the work of a dedicated print shop I would guess.

cheers!
Alan

 

[Chepstow]

fantastic find Al. Congrats. It fits you very well.

 

[delectans]

Ale: Thank you, I appreciate it!


Alan: Thanks! It is hard enough finding soft hats in 7-1/2+, and well nigh impossible to find derbys of this vintage in these sizes. I have been very fortunate of late to find three very fine derbys that I can actually wear, a feat I am unlikely to repeat, I am afraid.

I am estimating an early 1900s or possibly earlier date based upon observations of derbys and ads posted earlier in this thread, as well as the tall crown and general proportions. The unusual but striking C & K crest bears no mention of "Knapp-Felt" or any dates.

I believe that the embossed name on the sweatband refers to a mens furnishings concern in Minneapolis rather than an individual customer. The only reference I could find relating to the firm is a 1915 The American Hatter mention of Robert W. Cowan buying out his partner, a Mr. Joice, and the establishment being gutted by fire the following week!

Perhaps our Hatted Professor Brad can shed additional light as to possible vintage.


Chepstow: Thank you for your kind words! It fits like a dream...

 

[rlk]

Beautiful Al! Is there a United Hatters stamp?

 

[delectans]

Thanks, Robert! I do not believe that the derby has a United Hatters sticker, but will double-check when I get home this evening.

 

[Brad Bowers]

Everyone beat me to the best adjectives, but that is still one fine Derby, Al. That tall crown suits you well!

Unless it has a United Hatters sticker, I'm pretty sure it's somewhere between about 1915 and 1925, give or take a couple of years either way. There are a few clues. I think that style of "C&K" on the tip sticker shows up starting in 1906 with the new marketing image. I haven't run across it in earlier examples or advertising. The lack of "Knapp-Felt" means it's a lower-priced hat. Knapp-Felt hats were actually a quality designation at a set price level of $4, while Knapp-Felt Deluxe was a $6 hat. C&K also offered hats at $3 and $3.50 levels, and those have designations such as your "Special Quality." I don't know the price, though I'm guessing it's the $3.50 level. Also, the factory label has the "Duplicate" code, which they weren't using in 1910, but were using sometime between 1917 and 1922, based on the hats I have and have seen.

I believe we have yet to see a C&K earlier than 1903. Based upon my research, I starting to think that any pre-1900 C&K hat probably won't say C&K on it until you look under the sweatband, but instead will feature the retailer's crest in the liner. It's possible they might say "Manufactured by Crofut & Knapp" or something similar in small lettering below the retailer's crest.

Brad