Collegiate Pants

[Edward]

'Oxford bags' were quite different to 'collegiate pants'. The main difference is that collegiate pants are fitted at the seat and flare out. However Oxford Bags were wide through the entire length of the leg. Original Oxford Bags were actually slightly wider at the knee than the ankle.

Isn't that photo also of a piar of bags that weren't true bags at all but comedy characateurs, made for a bet?

To my eye, true bags are much more akin to zoot trousers, though with a much less pronounced taper from knee to ankle.

 

[Dinerman]

1933


1933

 

[cpdv]

Mine from the late 20s. 22 inches at the cuff and a half inch wider at the knee. Technically "bags" but not extremely so.

 

[Two Types]

Thanks TT - I should've added a '?' at the end as I hd never heard of the collegiate - although do wear somethign very similar (parrallel ir wide straight through) although from the pcitures it would seem the Oxfords being flared out (the bottoms being huge and much wider than the seat area or thigh) and thw Collegiate being more parralel don't you think?

For more on 'Oxford Bags' see this thread: http://www.thefedoralounge.com/showthread.php?8423-Oxford-Bags&highlight=oxford

In particular, it has lots of details about the origins of 'bags'.

The reason you might think the Oxford Bags were flared is that most photographs that claim to be 'Oxford Bags' are either extra-wide trousers made for a bet (such as the ones you posted in this thread) or American 'collegiate pants'. The original 1925 bags only looked extreme when compared to early 1920s trousers. Then they went super-wide for a very brief period, before settling back nearer to the original early 1925 measurements and were briefly known as 'semi Oxfords'.

 

[Two Types]

Ugh.... flares. The ugliest trouser known to man, in whatever decade they cropped up....

The collegiate pants remind me of the mid-1970s when the coolest kids were wearing the deep waistband trousers with buttons everywhere. Strangely, they were known as 'Oxford Bags' whilst actually sharing many features of 'Collegiate Pants'. Although in the north of England, there was a popular style known as 'Spencers' which were (I believe) nearer to the cut of the original Oxford Bags. Spencers (who still make trousers to this day) had made trousers back in the 1920s so maybe they reused those patterns. It's something I'm hoping to eventually be able to research.

 

[Two Types]

Dinerman: In your research have you found out anything about the origins of wide trousers in 1920s America? I know there were the 'Sheikh pants' of the early to mid twenties, but don't know much about them. I have also read about a US president making comments on wide trousers worn at US colleges in about 1922. But I have never found his actual comments. I'd be very interested in knowing more, especially since some reports indicate it was US students who first took the wide legged look to the UK, leading to the Oxford Bags fashion. Anything that helps establish more facts would be very interesting.

 

[herringbonekid]

Ugh.... flares. The ugliest trouser known to man, in whatever decade they cropped up....

Mine from the late 20s. 22 inches at the cuff and a half inch wider at the knee. Technically "bags" but not extremely so.

as cpdv's photo shows, a 22" bottom trouser looks nothing like the flared effect seen in the illustrations. someone a long time ago posted some 20s-30s trousers that did indeed have a slight flare (i.e. the knee was a touch narrower than the bottom... but not by much, see below), but most of these illustrations are simply exaggerated to reinforce the idea of 'wide' in the customer's mind.

 

[herringbonekid]

here's me in a pair of US 1936 trousers that have 11.5" (23") bottoms and also 11.5" knee.
a curious thing is that a trouser that has no taper at all - i.e. is straight from knee to bottom - can look flared from certain angles:

...they still don't look as flared as most of the illustrations for 22" bottoms though.

 

[Tomasso]

most of these illustrations are simply exaggerated to reinforce the idea of 'wide' in the customer's mind

bingo!

 

[Flat Foot Floey]

Dance contest 1930 with contrast inserts at the trousers.


PS: Here the gal is wearing them

And even a video.
[video=youtube_share;mc3wef5tI3o]http://youtu.be/mc3wef5tI3o[/video]

 

[Flat Foot Floey]

And then I remember we have once talked about the movie "Wild boys of the road" (1933) which I still didn't see yet. On those kids the pants look indeed slightly flared.
But it might be the effect HBK described. It would be interesting to see if they also have fancy waistbands. Maybe somebody here has the DVD and can make some screenshots?
I noticed there are many cotton fabrics in the adds. So this might be the look they get when they are well worn and dirty.

PS:
I see some fancy pockets here.

 

[cpdv]

In watching the "varsity drag" scene from the film Good News you can see a slight flare on trousers of the college students. I believe the movie was made around 1931 or so if my memory serves me right.

 

[Dinerman]

Florian, I think the "Wild Boys of the Road" ones are corduroy. Has the fancy waistband in that second shot.
Not in relation to the fil, but wasn't it a fad in the 1930s to wear these cords dirty?

Here's another one from 1929. Most are fairly plain compared to the 1930s ones, but the contrast tunneled belt loops on the left are pretty wild.

 

[Dinerman]

1928. Attached pastel colored stenciled leather belt.


1928


1928

 

[herringbonekid]

And then I remember we have once talked about the movie "Wild boys of the road" (1933) which I still didn't see yet. On those kids the pants look indeed slightly flared.

i think those are flared, but they also look about 12" - 13" wide at the bottom.
that's really my point... that the 11" bottom trousers in those ads wouldn't look as wide or as flared (if at all flared) in real life.

 

[Claudio]

For more on 'Oxford Bags' see this thread: http://www.thefedoralounge.com/showthread.php?8423-Oxford-Bags&highlight=oxford

In particular, it has lots of details about the origins of 'bags'.

The reason you might think the Oxford Bags were flared is that most photographs that claim to be 'Oxford Bags' are either extra-wide trousers made for a bet (such as the ones you posted in this thread) or American 'collegiate pants'. The original 1925 bags only looked extreme when compared to early 1920s trousers. Then they went super-wide for a very brief period, before settling back nearer to the original early 1925 measurements and were briefly known as 'semi Oxfords'.

Thanks TT

 

[Claudio]

These are 21" at knee and 22" at bottom 13" rise

 

[Dinerman]

From the vintage workwear thread

They look pretty close to these. 3 button waistband, super wide belt loops, turn down pockets. It doesn't look like the ones in the LIFE photo have the extended waistband.

 

[Dinerman]

1927. I think this may be the early end of this style. Most of what they call collegiate at this point are fairly tame tweeds. Maybe a two button waistband, but nothing too out-there. With the braid stripe, these were the wildest I could find for this year. 19 inch bottoms.

 

[dudewuttheheck]

Very interesting. Amazing how fashion trends change, especially considering the skinny jean craze that's been going on lately. I love reading the ads.