CNN Opinion: Stop hating on the millenials

[LizzieMaine]

I think that out of all of my friends there's maybe one or two in the whole bunch who can be described as "lazy," but that's an inevitable part of life. You have people who are lazy and people who aren't. The biggest groups of lazy Millennials come from either the slums or very, very well off families. And guess what? Neither one of those cases are exactly breaking news.

I hire Millennials to sell popcorn and soda, and have gotten to know the kids who work for me quite well over the years. The best employees from my perspective are, without exception, those who come from a lower-middle or working-class background -- who understand that a job is a job is a job. They're ambitious, enthusiastic, and cooperative, and when I tell them I've got a shift open they say "when should I be there?"

I have had bad experiences with kids from our local upscale private high school. They walk in the door with a cynical, entitled attitude -- and it takes a lot of arrogance to think you've earned the right to be that cynical before you're old enough to vote -- and it goes down hill from there. I take what we do seriously, and if they aren't willing to take it seriously as well, then I'm just not going to bother with them. Going into an interview with the attitude that you're somehow too good for the job you're applying for will ensure your application goes straight into the garbage can.

 

[Flicka]

The experience here is a little different - the generation leaving school now is in a much better position than people my age were. See, we haven't experienced too much of the depression this time, but in the early 90s, the bottom fell out of the market. Ever since WWII, unemployment had been virtually unknown here (like below 1%) and suddenly we had unemployment figures up in the teens and obviously it hit young people with no experience worst. A lot of my friends, coming from comfortable middle class homes, sat out those slump years in the 90s at the university, supported by their parents, but for me who had to work and student loan my way through school it was pretty tough. I applied for hundreds of jobs and usually I didn't even get to an interview, despite very good credentials. I was terrified in those years because unlike my friends I knew that no one comes to save you when the sh*t hits the fan. I had resigned myself to working as a cleaner or something after law school because everybody kept telling us it was impossible to get a job, even if you were in the top percentage like I was. Luckily it wasn't true, but I've had to work my butt off to get where I am today. So I really understand the "but nobody told us it would be like this!" It's tough to be - like my generation was here - the first generation since the industrial revolution to actually experience lowering standards of living compared to your parents. There's no optimism, no "tomorrow is a lovely day"; just "tomorrow is probably pissing down and next week there's the Flood". It tends to make people feel like there's no point and so they feel they have the right not to try.

But yes, I also think the young people now suffer from, to borrow from Lizzie, the Middle Class Privilege Syndrome. I can see it in a lot of people my age I work with and the generation after them has it even more. Not everyone, I should say, but to be honest, the people with a middle to upper class background. They never had to work for anything and they were raised by parents who told them the sun shines out of their a**es. They don't pull their weight at work. The smartest, sharpest, hardest working people I know all come from low income or working class backgrounds. But it's unfair to put the blame entirely on the young because their major problem is their upbringing. It's like yelling at a dog for barking when its owner has encouraged it to do so. These kids were trained to be the way they are, make no mistake. Reap the harvest, parent generation.

 

[splintercellsz]

My generation is decently lazy. They consider seeking employment pulling up a website, answering a few questions, sending the e-mail thing, and receiving a response saying they are not what the company was looking for. After that comes in, they take no as the only answer and give up.

Is finding a job hard? You bet. I finally found one after over a year of searching. You can be heavily qualified but (not sure if it is just here, or for everywhere) if usually comes down to who you know, and not what you know. Am making excuses for my generation? Not at all. The majority of us are lazy. When I was searching, I would be told no, but would continue to pursue other jobs... all while taking care of my grandmother. And guess what? I have a job I throughly enjoy, even though it will be short lived as I am going into the Army next month. For me, being told no just makes me want to work harder towards whatever I am trying to achieve.

Did my parent generation mess a lot up for us, sure. The majority 'protected' their children from everything, causing this generation to be socially inept.

 

[Gingerella72]

My husband and I aren't millennials, but we have experienced the same difficulties with employment that the younger generation has. A big problem, as I see it, is that all of the rules have changed. No longer can you fill out an application at the actual place of business, hand it to a real human being when done, or maybe even the hiring manager, chat a little about the position, and receive a response about when an interview may be possible. Heck, sometimes they would even interview you on the spot. Now, everything is done by online application, and computer algorithms....not humans....decide whether or not you make it to the next round in the hiring process. The odds are stacked against you before you even have a chance. If you have a Masters degree, you can forget about applying for menial labor jobs (because that's all there is to be found), they won't even look at you. And if you're older, or have been unemployed for an extended period, forget it...you have no chance in hell of getting an interview. Because obviously (dripping sarcasm), you must be a lazy failure if you haven't been able to find a job yet. At least for millennials, they are younger and have more time to figure things out. For those of us middle aged folks who are running out of time, the reality is even harsher.

People who are secure in their jobs or already in retirement, respectfully, don't have any clue how hard it is out there right now in job hunting land. Don't be so quick to judge millennials. This mess is not their fault.

 

[R.G. White]

More excuses.

Yeah, it's an excuse, but it's also the truth. It's not something I just pulled out of my backside.

Looks like you're getting life lesson #1. In what fantasy world did you think a job was an entitlement and that you should be able to buy a house before you're 30?

I don't believe I'm entitled to a job at all; I don't believe I'm entitled to anything. I haven't don't squat to deserve anything at all, I'm 19.
As for the fantasy world where people can have their own home before thirty, well maybe it's just the area I'm from and the time my parents lived in, but everyone in the older generation (of my family) had their own place by the time they were in their early twenties, and it comes as somewhat of shock to all of them that we aren't able to do the same.

all means, follow your dream. Just quit complaining that your dream is to lay about and still make a million dollars and the big bad world wont let you. The world don't work that way.

This is what I'm talking about, you're forming an opinion on me by fragments of what I wrote and what you already "know" of my generation. I don't expect to sit around and make millions of dollars. I don't care about being rich at all, in fact, I think it's a waste of time. I'd be content with a perfectly average job, making an average income. Obviously that would mean working almost everyday when I got to that point, and working my butt off now to get there in the first place. The idea of sitting around all day is repulsive to me, I CANNOT stand having nothing to do. And only a moron would expect to get rich from doing it.

Most people are perfectly content to do that, so long as you'll shut up about how terrible your life is.

I don't know when I ever complained about how terrible my life was. I am on the right thread, aren't I? I was contributing to this, so I'd appreciate it if you didn't tell me to shut up. And I don't have a terrible life at all when it comes to being comfortable. I'm thankful everyday for what I have and realize how fortunate I am to have it, but that doesn't mean I'm not allowed to feel disappointed with the way some things are.

As for the "whining" maybe we do whine too much, I can't say so either way. That's something I need to take my time with and look deeply at myself and my own actions.

I hire Millennials to sell popcorn and soda, and have gotten to know the kids who work for me quite well over the years. The best employees from my perspective are, without exception, those who come from a lower-middle or working-class background -- who understand that a job is a job is a job. They're ambitious, enthusiastic, and cooperative, and when I tell them I've got a shift open they say "when should I be there?"


I have had bad experiences with kids from our local upscale private high school. They walk in the door with a cynical, entitled attitude -- and it takes a lot of arrogance to think you've earned the right to be that cynical before you're old enough to vote -- and it goes down hill from there. I take what we do seriously, and if they aren't willing to take it seriously as well, then I'm just not going to bother with them. Going into an interview with the attitude that you're somehow too good for the job you're applying for will ensure your application goes straight into the garbage can.

Again, maybe it's just where I live, but for the most part I've noticed the laziest and most entitled people seem to either be from the more impoverished or wealthy areas, while the middle class, at least the lower middle class, tends to work the hardest. Of course there are the exceptions. And also, our definitions of where one class ends and the other begins might be different. I consider everyone who can get by, if only barely, to be middle class. If you have a big house with lots of land, "toys," etc. you're upper class.

 

[HudsonHawk]

People who are secure in their jobs or already in retirement, respectfully, don't have any clue how hard it is out there right now in job hunting land. Don't be so quick to judge millennials. This mess is not their fault.

Yes, it's hard. No one is saying it isn't. The point is that this isn't the only time in history that the job market has been tough, and it's just the way that world works. Complaining about it isn't a solution.

And like Lizzie, I don't want to go "walked to school through the snow uphill both ways" (I've never seen snow, remember), but things were no picnic when I was that age either. I grew up pretty poor at times...not "I didn't get what I wanted for my birthday" poor, but "I didn't get to eat every day" poor. I didn't get a free college education handed to me and four years of partying/working on it...it took me 7 years, going to school and working; working several jobs...landscaping, moving furniture, selling stereos, waiting tables...all at the same time. And when I got out, with a degree, the only job I could get was working a shovel. And while I now have a good job, I know it's not "secure", because I know what could happen any day. In short, it's the presumption that "you don't know what it's like" that grinds my gears more than anything. Because I *do* know what it's like. Much more so than 99.9% of the current generation.

 

[R.G. White]

Yes, it's hard. No one is saying it isn't. The point is that this isn't the only time in history that the job market has been tough, and it's just the way that world works. Complaining about it isn't a solution.

And like Lizzie, I don't want to go "walked to school through the snow uphill both ways" (I've never seen snow, remember), but things were no picnic when I was that age either. I grew up pretty poor at times...not "I didn't get what I wanted for my birthday" poor, but "I didn't get to eat every day" poor. I didn't get a free college education handed to me and four years of partying/working on it...it took me 7 years, going to school and working; working several jobs...landscaping, moving furniture, selling stereos, waiting tables...all at the same time. And when I got out, with a degree, the only job I could get was working a shovel. And while I now have a good job, I know it's not "secure", because I know what could happen any day. In short, it's the presumption that "you don't know what it's like" that grinds my gears more than anything. Because I *do* know what it's like. Much more so than 99.9% of the current generation.

I respect you for how you worked and the tough times you went through, but I have to ask how many people actually say "you don't know what it's like?" I find that unbelievably ignorant.
As for complaining, it actually does some people feel better. I feel awful if I bottle up everything inside of me and don't at least write about how I'm feeling. It really does help and puts things in perspective. For me anyway.

 

[HudsonHawk]

As for the fantasy world where people can have their own home before thirty, well maybe it's just the area I'm from and the time my parents lived in, but everyone in the older generation (of my family) had their own place by the time they were in their early twenties, and it comes as somewhat of shock to all of them that we aren't able to do the same.

Well, it's an unrealistic expectation. Again...life lesson.

This is what I'm talking about, you're forming an opinion on me by fragments of what I wrote and what you already "know" of my generation. I don't expect to sit around and make millions of dollars. I don't care about being rich at all, in fact, I think it's a waste of time. I'd be content with a perfectly average job, making an average income. Obviously that would mean working almost everyday when I got to that point, and working my butt off now to get there in the first place. The idea of sitting around all day is repulsive to me, I CANNOT stand having nothing to do. And only a moron would expect to get rich from doing it...I don't know when I ever complained about how terrible my life was. I am on the right thread, aren't I? I was contributing to this, so I'd appreciate it if you didn't tell me to shut up. And I don't have a terrible life at all when it comes to being comfortable. I'm thankful everyday for what I have and realize how fortunate I am to have it, but that doesn't mean I'm not allowed to feel disappointed with the way some things are.

I'm not talking about you personally. I didn't mean to imply that *you* were any of these things. I was speaking generally to the prevailing attitude among others your age.

I'm sure you're a bright, ambitious, hard working guy. You'll do fine. Again, it may seem like there's no end in sight, but there is. Just be careful about the excuses. I'm not trying to criticize you, just trying to offer advice because I've been in your shoes. Take it for what it's worth to you.

 

[R.G. White]

Well, it's an unrealistic expectation. Again...life lesson.




I'm not talking about you personally. I didn't mean to imply that *you* were any of these things. I was speaking generally to the prevailing attitude among others your age.

I'm sure you're a bright, ambitious, hard working guy. You'll do fine. Again, it may seem like there's no end in sight, but there is. Just be careful about the excuses. I'm not trying to criticize you, just trying to offer advice because I've been in your shoes. Take it for what it's worth to you.

Alright, gottchya. Sorry, didn't mean to take it the wrong way!

 

[HudsonHawk]

I respect you for how you worked and the tough times you went through, but I have to ask how many people actually say "you don't know what it's like?" I find that unbelievably ignorant.

I was responding to the "People who are secure in their jobs or already in retirement, respectfully, don't have any clue how hard it is out there right now in job hunting land" remark. Actually, we do.

 

[LizzieMaine]

Again, maybe it's just where I live, but for the most part I've noticed the laziest and most entitled people seem to either be from the more impoverished or wealthy areas, while the middle class, at least the lower middle class, tends to work the hardest. Of course there are the exceptions. And also, our definitions of where one class ends and the other begins might be different. I consider everyone who can get by, if only barely, to be middle class. If you have a big house with lots of land, "toys," etc. you're upper class.

I think one of the problems with American society is that we pretend social class is defined by money, when in reality it's defined by factors which go much deeper. When I talk about working class/lower-middle-class I'm talking about an entire system of social and cultural values and suppositions about what you can expect from your life that are inculcated in you from childhood. A working class kid does not take a college education for granted, does not assume he or she will make a lot of money some day, and assumes that the purpose of work is to support one's self and one's family, not to achieve some sort of personal fulfillment. Middle-class people, by contrast, take college as an expectation from birth, assume that they will achieve "careers" as opposed to "jobs," and are terribly, terribly concerned about what others think of them and their place in society. There are many many other such differences, but those are the ones relevant to this discussion.

A middle class person who makes a lot of money is not upper class. A middle class person with money is simply a rich middle class person, with a middle class person's expectations, values, and worldview. Donald Trump is a rich man, but he is a rich *middle-class* man from the top of his overpriced toupee to the tips of his overpriced shoes. A middle-class kid from the suburbs who grows a grotesque beard, puts on a flannel shirt, and goes to live in a bedbug infested apartment in Brooklyn is not, and will never be working class. He's a middle-class person without any money.

An upper class person is an aristocrat -- we pretend we don't have an aristocracy in America, but we do. The actual American upper class is limited primarily to old families of inherited wealth going back to the 19th Century, for whom questions of social or financial achievement and prestige are completely irrelevant. They don't worry about those things, because they know that, as aristocrats, they don't have to.

 

[Bruce Wayne]

My husband and I aren't millennials, but we have experienced the same difficulties with employment that the younger generation has. A big problem, as I see it, is that all of the rules have changed. No longer can you fill out an application at the actual place of business, hand it to a real human being when done, or maybe even the hiring manager, chat a little about the position, and receive a response about when an interview may be possible. Heck, sometimes they would even interview you on the spot. Now, everything is done by online application, and computer algorithms....not humans....decide whether or not you make it to the next round in the hiring process. The odds are stacked against you before you even have a chance. If you have a Masters degree, you can forget about applying for menial labor jobs (because that's all there is to be found), they won't even look at you. And if you're older, or have been unemployed for an extended period, forget it...you have no chance in hell of getting an interview. Because obviously (dripping sarcasm), you must be a lazy failure if you haven't been able to find a job yet. At least for millennials, they are younger and have more time to figure things out. For those of us middle aged folks who are running out of time, the reality is even harsher.

People who are secure in their jobs or already in retirement, respectfully, don't have any clue how hard it is out there right now in job hunting land. Don't be so quick to judge millennials. This mess is not their fault.

THIS is part of the problem. I have lost track of how many times I went somewhere & offered my services for free for two weeks saying that if they liked me then they could hire me & start paying me at the end of the two weeks.

In the next county over is a tailor in his 80's or 90's. I have tried talking to his daughter who runs the menswear store to try to become a tailors apprentice to learn the trade, again, volunteering for two weeks to see if I would be a good fit. I have made my own clothes before, I can use a sewing machine, I know how to follow a paper pattern.

 

[Gingerella72]

Yes, it's hard. No one is saying it isn't. The point is that this isn't the only time in history that the job market has been tough, and it's just the way that world works. Complaining about it isn't a solution.

And like Lizzie, I don't want to go "walked to school through the snow uphill both ways" (I've never seen snow, remember), but things were no picnic when I was that age either. I grew up pretty poor at times...not "I didn't get what I wanted for my birthday" poor, but "I didn't get to eat every day" poor. I didn't get a free college education handed to me and four years of partying/working on it...it took me 7 years, going to school and working; working several jobs...landscaping, moving furniture, selling stereos, waiting tables...all at the same time. And when I got out, with a degree, the only job I could get was working a shovel. And while I now have a good job, I know it's not "secure", because I know what could happen any day. In short, it's the presumption that "you don't know what it's like" that grinds my gears more than anything. Because I *do* know what it's like. Much more so than 99.9% of the current generation.

I'm not saying that past generations haven't had employment problems, my point is that the rules have changed since then. Twenty years ago, or even ten years ago, "pounding the pavement" looking for a job usually yielded results. Now, it's "pounding the internet" and if a computer algorithm decides it doesn't like one word on your application (and who knows what that word is), you get sent back a computer-generated form email saying you didn't match their criteria. How are you supposed to win against those odds? Willingness to work hard isn't the problem. It's getting the opportunity to find a job where you CAN work hard....that's the problem.

 

[Bruce Wayne]

Now, it's "pounding the internet" and if a computer algorithm decides it doesn't like one word on your application (and who knows what that word is), you get sent back a computer-generated form email saying you didn't match their criteria.

I have yet to hear back from anyone. Almost every time I hear "we will contact you to let you know our decision" and that is the last I hear from them.

 

[HudsonHawk]

I'm not saying that past generations haven't had employment problems, my point is that the rules have changed since then. Twenty years ago, or even ten years ago, "pounding the pavement" looking for a job usually yielded results. Now, it's "pounding the internet" and if a computer algorithm decides it doesn't like one word on your application (and who knows what that word is), you get sent back a computer-generated form email saying you didn't match their criteria. How are you supposed to win against those odds? Willingness to work hard isn't the problem. It's getting the opportunity to find a job where you CAN work hard....that's the problem.

Forgive me for being a bit perplexed by this, because again, I do recruiting for a big international compnay. While we certainly take applications and resumes online, I can assure you that every single one of them gets screened by a real person, and for the folks in HR, if the applicant is even *remotely* qualified, the resume gets passed on to the actual techinical people who make the final decision. Most of us wish they'd screen out more than they do. Perhaps it's just my company, but my experience is really not consistent with yours.

 

[Bruce Wayne]

 

[R.G. White]

I think one of the problems with American society is that we pretend social class is defined by money, when in reality it's defined by factors which go much deeper. When I talk about working class/lower-middle-class I'm talking about an entire system of social and cultural values and suppositions about what you can expect from your life that are inculcated in you from childhood. A working class kid does not take a college education for granted, does not assume he or she will make a lot of money some day, and assumes that the purpose of work is to support one's self and one's family, not to achieve some sort of personal fulfillment. Middle-class people, by contrast, take college as an expectation from birth, assume that they will achieve "careers" as opposed to "jobs," and are terribly, terribly concerned about what others think of them and their place in society. There are many many other such differences, but those are the ones relevant to this discussion.

A middle class person who makes a lot of money is not upper class. A middle class person with money is simply a rich middle class person, with a middle class person's expectations, values, and worldview. Donald Trump is a rich man, but he is a rich *middle-class* man from the top of his overpriced toupee to the tips of his overpriced shoes. A middle-class kid from the suburbs who grows a grotesque beard, puts on a flannel shirt, and goes to live in a bedbug infested apartment in Brooklyn is not, and will never be working class. He's a middle-class person without any money.

An upper class person is an aristocrat -- we pretend we don't have an aristocracy in America, but we do. The actual American upper class is limited primarily to old families of inherited wealth going back to the 19th Century, for whom questions of social or financial achievement and prestige are completely irrelevant. They don't worry about those things, because they know that, as aristocrats, they don't have to.

Huh, I can honestly say I have never looked at it from the perspective. Thanks for that, it gives me something to think about.

 

[HudsonHawk]

With all due respect, the "relevant field" is a crock. 99% of us don't get to "live our dream", or even work in the field for which we trained. We simply do the job we were able to get.

 

[Gingerella72]

Perhaps it's just my company, but my experience is really not consistent with yours.

Which is one of the reasons why I said "you don't know what it's like". General-you, not You-you. But the change in technology has changed the way job hunting occurs and allowing for some exceptions (such as your company), it just "ain't like it used to be." I really, really wish it was like it used to be. Losing a job wasn't the death knell it is today, you could be reasonably assured that a new job would be found within days, if not the same day. Employers were more willing to hire you without any experience, you were hired/judged on how well you were deemed to be able to learn the job, not how much experience you already had doing the job as it is now. I know, I know, there may still be employers like that out there but we haven't run into any round these parts. And "moving to where the jobs are" isn't always possible when you're stuck in a mortgage in a crummy housing market with no good chance of actually being able to sell your house, let alone find the money up front to move elsewhere.

I've moved off topic from the OP, just wanted to say I understand, at least on the employment front, what millennials are up against.

I work at a University (it's my husband that has had the job hunting woes, but what effects him, effects me, being a team and all) and most of the students I work with are very hard working. A little too addicted to their smart phones, yes, but very hard working.

 

[LizzieMaine]

Huh, I can honestly say I have never looked at it from the perspective. Thanks for that, it gives me something to think about.

I strongly recommend a book from the 1980s called "Class" by Paul Fussell, which although rather dated is still the best book on social class in America ever written. Extremely illuminating, although heavily biased by Fussell's own upper-middle-class upbringing, and also very funny. Once you've read this book you'll be able to peg the social class of any random person you see on the street up to about 90 percent accuracy.